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	<title>Comments on: Lessons for the GOP from Labour</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: wrs10</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/lessons-for-the-gop-from-labour/comment-page-2#comment-70924</link>
		<dc:creator>wrs10</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14641#comment-70924</guid>
		<description>http://openleft.com/diary/15831/ny23-resultsdemocrat-owens-leads-in-early-returns
New York 23rd Congressional
(528 of 606 precincts reporting)
Owens (D) 	Scozzafava (R) 	Hoffman (C)
49.1% 	5.5% 	45.4%
Owens margin: 4,580

How does that old saying go again - oh yes   &quot;One would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://openleft.com/diary/15831/ny23-resultsdemocrat-owens-leads-in-early-returns" rel="nofollow">http://openleft.com/diary/15831/ny23-resultsdemocrat-owens-leads-in-early-returns</a><br />
New York 23rd Congressional<br />
(528 of 606 precincts reporting)<br />
Owens (D) 	Scozzafava (R) 	Hoffman (C)<br />
49.1% 	5.5% 	45.4%<br />
Owens margin: 4,580</p>
<p>How does that old saying go again &#8211; oh yes   &#8220;One would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/lessons-for-the-gop-from-labour/comment-page-2#comment-70558</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14641#comment-70558</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Spending almost wildly on everything (except, notably, national defense) in an attempt to boost the U.S. out of recession.&lt;/b&gt;

The funny thing is, one day the charge is that the stimulus bill isn&#039;t pumping money into the economy fast enough ... for example, the tax cut and unemployment assistance programs kicked in immediately, but the CBO found that only 52 percent of the money in the stimulus bill devoted to new government spending will actually be spent by 2010, as bureaucrats were charged with developing procedures and criteria, issuing necessary regulations, and reviewing plans and proposals prior to doling out the cash.

Wildly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spending almost wildly on everything (except, notably, national defense) in an attempt to boost the U.S. out of recession.</p>
<p>The funny thing is, one day the charge is that the stimulus bill isn&#8217;t pumping money into the economy fast enough &#8230; for example, the tax cut and unemployment assistance programs kicked in immediately, but the CBO found that only 52 percent of the money in the stimulus bill devoted to new government spending will actually be spent by 2010, as bureaucrats were charged with developing procedures and criteria, issuing necessary regulations, and reviewing plans and proposals prior to doling out the cash.</p>
<p>Wildly?</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/lessons-for-the-gop-from-labour/comment-page-2#comment-70510</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14641#comment-70510</guid>
		<description>sinz54 // Nov 1, 2009 at 10:28 am 
&quot;In fact, they’re deliberately doing the REVERSE: Spending almost wildly on everything (except, notably, national defense) in an attempt to boost the U.S. out of recession.&quot;

.......Read conservative economist Bob Bartlett&#039;s book, he&#039;ll explain it to you.

&quot;The stimulus package contained a huge number of ridiculous projects that won’t produce any lasting capital goods. I don’t think Obama cared. He just wants to reflate the currency.&quot;

......Sinz gives us the benefit of his economic expertise.....now what you think Paris Hilton?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sinz54 // Nov 1, 2009 at 10:28 am<br />
&#8220;In fact, they’re deliberately doing the REVERSE: Spending almost wildly on everything (except, notably, national defense) in an attempt to boost the U.S. out of recession.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;.Read conservative economist Bob Bartlett&#8217;s book, he&#8217;ll explain it to you.</p>
<p>&#8220;The stimulus package contained a huge number of ridiculous projects that won’t produce any lasting capital goods. I don’t think Obama cared. He just wants to reflate the currency.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;Sinz gives us the benefit of his economic expertise&#8230;..now what you think Paris Hilton?</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/lessons-for-the-gop-from-labour/comment-page-2#comment-70502</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14641#comment-70502</guid>
		<description>ottovbs: &lt;blockquote&gt; the challenge is to manage it as efficiently and cost effectively as possible &lt;/blockquote&gt;
But they&#039;re NOT managing it efficiently and cost effectively.

In fact, they&#039;re deliberately doing the REVERSE:  Spending almost wildly on everything (except, notably, national defense) in an attempt to boost the U.S. out of recession.  This is Bernanke&#039;s &quot;helicopter model&quot; on steroids.

The stimulus package contained a huge number of ridiculous projects that won&#039;t produce any lasting capital goods.  I don&#039;t think Obama cared.  He just wants to reflate the currency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ottovbs:  the challenge is to manage it as efficiently and cost effectively as possible<br />
But they&#8217;re NOT managing it efficiently and cost effectively.</p>
<p>In fact, they&#8217;re deliberately doing the REVERSE:  Spending almost wildly on everything (except, notably, national defense) in an attempt to boost the U.S. out of recession.  This is Bernanke&#8217;s &#8220;helicopter model&#8221; on steroids.</p>
<p>The stimulus package contained a huge number of ridiculous projects that won&#8217;t produce any lasting capital goods.  I don&#8217;t think Obama cared.  He just wants to reflate the currency.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/lessons-for-the-gop-from-labour/comment-page-2#comment-70501</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14641#comment-70501</guid>
		<description>ottovbs:  &lt;blockquote&gt; they are not running the banking or auto industries &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Of course they&#039;re running them.

They forced the resignation of several CEOs.

They told GM to start producing small &quot;green&quot; cars, even though any industry analyst would have told them that only the big SUVs produced enough revenue to keep GM afloat even this long.  (The high cost of union labor is fixed no matter what type of car GM produces.  And the chance that GM can produce a car to compete with the Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla is virtually nil; GM engineers are simply incapable of that.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ottovbs:   they are not running the banking or auto industries<br />
Of course they&#8217;re running them.</p>
<p>They forced the resignation of several CEOs.</p>
<p>They told GM to start producing small &#8220;green&#8221; cars, even though any industry analyst would have told them that only the big SUVs produced enough revenue to keep GM afloat even this long.  (The high cost of union labor is fixed no matter what type of car GM produces.  And the chance that GM can produce a car to compete with the Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla is virtually nil; GM engineers are simply incapable of that.)</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/lessons-for-the-gop-from-labour/comment-page-2#comment-70471</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 19:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14641#comment-70471</guid>
		<description>Churl // Oct 31, 2009 at 2:21 pm 

.......Putting square pegs in round holes again..........they are not running the banking or auto industries.......they are not taking control of healthcare but piggybacking on an immense, disparate and almost entirely private existing system which is why you end up with a 1900 page bill.......the whole notion of less govt is a myth......Federal and state budgets total approaching five trillion (4.5 trillion in Bush&#039;s last budget) this is several times the expenditure of any other sovereign state in the world......it&#039;s never going to change......the challenge is to manage it as efficiently and cost effectively as possible....... the occasional whimsicality of your comments suggests you are not entirely without some appreciation of complexity and nuance, so what do you keep repeating this simplistic stuff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Churl // Oct 31, 2009 at 2:21 pm </p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;.Putting square pegs in round holes again&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.they are not running the banking or auto industries&#8230;&#8230;.they are not taking control of healthcare but piggybacking on an immense, disparate and almost entirely private existing system which is why you end up with a 1900 page bill&#8230;&#8230;.the whole notion of less govt is a myth&#8230;&#8230;Federal and state budgets total approaching five trillion (4.5 trillion in Bush&#8217;s last budget) this is several times the expenditure of any other sovereign state in the world&#8230;&#8230;it&#8217;s never going to change&#8230;&#8230;the challenge is to manage it as efficiently and cost effectively as possible&#8230;&#8230;. the occasional whimsicality of your comments suggests you are not entirely without some appreciation of complexity and nuance, so what do you keep repeating this simplistic stuff</p>
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		<title>By: Churl</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/lessons-for-the-gop-from-labour/comment-page-2#comment-70463</link>
		<dc:creator>Churl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14641#comment-70463</guid>
		<description>ottovbs, and now the question is, which US party is pursuing the analog of the poll tax: Republicans who say stuff that liberals don&#039;t like, or the Democrats who are trying to run the banking industry and  2/3 of the American auto industry, take control of health care with 1,990 pages of legalistic opacity, and whack with higher costs anyone who consumes energy or uses it to produce something with CO2 cap and trade regulations.

Time will tell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ottovbs, and now the question is, which US party is pursuing the analog of the poll tax: Republicans who say stuff that liberals don&#8217;t like, or the Democrats who are trying to run the banking industry and  2/3 of the American auto industry, take control of health care with 1,990 pages of legalistic opacity, and whack with higher costs anyone who consumes energy or uses it to produce something with CO2 cap and trade regulations.</p>
<p>Time will tell.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/lessons-for-the-gop-from-labour/comment-page-2#comment-70461</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14641#comment-70461</guid>
		<description>Churl // Oct 31, 2009 at 1:21 pm 

&quot;ottovbs saith, “Purely a matter of the relative resources at their respective disposal…..if Armey had them he would……”. It would be interesting to see how you know that, or could prove it.&quot;

........Quite easily actually since he&#039;s already demonstrated this proclivity.....he and Gingrich were quite happy to shut down the entire Federal govt over a fairly minor budget dispute just so they could embarrass Clinton.......and then there was the whole Whitewater farrago......ultimately both of them blew up in their faces.

&quot;Reminds me of the Republican Party’s current national leadership (and wannabee prophets like Frum) who quiver and whimper whenever a conservative stands up for conservative principles.&quot;

............I&#039;m one of Thatcher&#039;s greatest admirers but this is a typically simplistic reading.........One of the far right&#039;s besetting sins is they will try to transfer patterns of behavior they admire (eg. Churchill in 1940 etc) to totally different circumstances......Thatcher won big in the Falklands and against the miners because she was right, had general public support and showed a lot of tactical flexibility in pressing her campaign......later in her premiership she showed increasing signs of blind adherence to doctrine and tactical rigidity in matters like the poll tax and Westland which are the hallmarks of today&#039;s GOP and which ultimately led to her overthrow........an event unprecedented in modern British political history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Churl // Oct 31, 2009 at 1:21 pm </p>
<p>&#8220;ottovbs saith, “Purely a matter of the relative resources at their respective disposal…..if Armey had them he would……”. It would be interesting to see how you know that, or could prove it.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;..Quite easily actually since he&#8217;s already demonstrated this proclivity&#8230;..he and Gingrich were quite happy to shut down the entire Federal govt over a fairly minor budget dispute just so they could embarrass Clinton&#8230;&#8230;.and then there was the whole Whitewater farrago&#8230;&#8230;ultimately both of them blew up in their faces.</p>
<p>&#8220;Reminds me of the Republican Party’s current national leadership (and wannabee prophets like Frum) who quiver and whimper whenever a conservative stands up for conservative principles.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;I&#8217;m one of Thatcher&#8217;s greatest admirers but this is a typically simplistic reading&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;One of the far right&#8217;s besetting sins is they will try to transfer patterns of behavior they admire (eg. Churchill in 1940 etc) to totally different circumstances&#8230;&#8230;Thatcher won big in the Falklands and against the miners because she was right, had general public support and showed a lot of tactical flexibility in pressing her campaign&#8230;&#8230;later in her premiership she showed increasing signs of blind adherence to doctrine and tactical rigidity in matters like the poll tax and Westland which are the hallmarks of today&#8217;s GOP and which ultimately led to her overthrow&#8230;&#8230;..an event unprecedented in modern British political history.</p>
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		<title>By: Churl</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/lessons-for-the-gop-from-labour/comment-page-2#comment-70455</link>
		<dc:creator>Churl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14641#comment-70455</guid>
		<description>ottovbs saith, &quot;Purely a matter of the relative resources at their respective disposal…..if Armey had them he would……&quot;. It would be interesting to see how you know that, or could prove it.

and this zinger on Margaret Thatcher,

&quot;...once battle was joined she never lost her nerve despite a lot whining in her own party leadership who on the whole detested her.&quot;

Reminds me of the  Republican Party&#039;s current national leadership (and wannabee prophets  like Frum) who quiver and whimper whenever a conservative stands up for conservative principles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ottovbs saith, &#8220;Purely a matter of the relative resources at their respective disposal…..if Armey had them he would……&#8221;. It would be interesting to see how you know that, or could prove it.</p>
<p>and this zinger on Margaret Thatcher,</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;once battle was joined she never lost her nerve despite a lot whining in her own party leadership who on the whole detested her.&#8221;</p>
<p>Reminds me of the  Republican Party&#8217;s current national leadership (and wannabee prophets  like Frum) who quiver and whimper whenever a conservative stands up for conservative principles.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/lessons-for-the-gop-from-labour/comment-page-2#comment-70426</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14641#comment-70426</guid>
		<description>wrs10 // Oct 31, 2009 at 8:14 am 
“………there’s a contradiction between your first and subsequent three sentences!”
No there is not. I would not pay you good money to tell me the time of day.&#039;

...........mamma mia

&quot;Arthur Scargill and Dick Armey could not be mistaken for each other if they were each wearing brown paper bags over their heads.&quot;

............Politically Scargill and Armey bear no resemblance to each other whatsoever!

&quot; They both were/are out to sink the chances of candidates in their own parties who had/have a chance of winning moderate voters. The more “success” they had/have the more likely that their party stayed/stays in the wilderness.&quot;

............Politically Scargill and Armey are both behaving in exactly the same way 

&quot;Strategically they are sufficiently similar to be compared.&quot;

............Politically Scargill and Armey are similar enough to each other to be compared.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wrs10 // Oct 31, 2009 at 8:14 am<br />
“………there’s a contradiction between your first and subsequent three sentences!”<br />
No there is not. I would not pay you good money to tell me the time of day.&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..mamma mia</p>
<p>&#8220;Arthur Scargill and Dick Armey could not be mistaken for each other if they were each wearing brown paper bags over their heads.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;Politically Scargill and Armey bear no resemblance to each other whatsoever!</p>
<p>&#8221; They both were/are out to sink the chances of candidates in their own parties who had/have a chance of winning moderate voters. The more “success” they had/have the more likely that their party stayed/stays in the wilderness.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;Politically Scargill and Armey are both behaving in exactly the same way </p>
<p>&#8220;Strategically they are sufficiently similar to be compared.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;Politically Scargill and Armey are similar enough to each other to be compared.</p>
<p>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
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