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	<title>Comments on: Conservatism is Dead Without Pragmatism</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/kabaservice-on-tanenhaus-the-death-of-conservatism</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/kabaservice-on-tanenhaus-the-death-of-conservatism/comment-page-4#comment-63669</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=11518#comment-63669</guid>
		<description>Agreed, the Left is unapologetic.

Balconesfault, thinks that the Republicans should apologize for Iraq, but nobody is offering apologies for their attempts to hamstring Reagan in support of the Contras and against the Sandinistas.  And that is just one of many, many.

I agree that the Red Diaper Babies turned NeoCons are a Godsend, David Horowitz and Ronald Radosh, Ive been reading lately.  They are truely apologetic and because they as Leftists were hyper political, feel the need to expose the truth about the Left and the networks and tactics and strategies used by the Left.  

What is Obama and the Left doing to put families back together?   Nothing, the whole point was to replace Dad with the State in the first place.  Who is going to provide health care for the kids, the Federal Government is, because Dad is nowhere to be found.  

We have problems that need solutions, indeed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, the Left is unapologetic.</p>
<p>Balconesfault, thinks that the Republicans should apologize for Iraq, but nobody is offering apologies for their attempts to hamstring Reagan in support of the Contras and against the Sandinistas.  And that is just one of many, many.</p>
<p>I agree that the Red Diaper Babies turned NeoCons are a Godsend, David Horowitz and Ronald Radosh, Ive been reading lately.  They are truely apologetic and because they as Leftists were hyper political, feel the need to expose the truth about the Left and the networks and tactics and strategies used by the Left.  </p>
<p>What is Obama and the Left doing to put families back together?   Nothing, the whole point was to replace Dad with the State in the first place.  Who is going to provide health care for the kids, the Federal Government is, because Dad is nowhere to be found.  </p>
<p>We have problems that need solutions, indeed!</p>
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		<title>By: Corky</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/kabaservice-on-tanenhaus-the-death-of-conservatism/comment-page-3#comment-63662</link>
		<dc:creator>Corky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=11518#comment-63662</guid>
		<description>If you want a short road map to the future of conservative philosophy, here&#039;s my version.  Rebuild a lot of what the left trashed and get rid of a lot of what the left  saddled us with.  As you noted, escapevelocity, we can address this issue in isolation, then that issue in isolation, then the other in isolation, but we&#039;ll never address the driving force behind it all.   We can get apopleptic about the lack of prayer in schools (why is the separation of church and state the only constitutional principle that is never, ever open to modification, only to reinforcement?  Anyone?).  We can get apopleptic about late-term abortions,  etc, but we&#039;re fighting with one hand tied behind our back when we do, while the left is hitting us with krav maga.  It was a good first step when some red-diaper babies became neocons back in the seventies, but it seems to me that David Frum has his sights pointed the wrong way.  The problem isn&#039;t that the Republicans aren&#039;t reaching out aggressively enough to the left (kind of a strange image, if you think of it).  The problem is that the intellectual left is still unable to face or acknowledge the the cultural, the moral, the economic mess it&#039;s made over the past several decades.  The apology needs to come from the intellectual left, not from the right.  It always has, and I&#039;m not really seeing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want a short road map to the future of conservative philosophy, here&#8217;s my version.  Rebuild a lot of what the left trashed and get rid of a lot of what the left  saddled us with.  As you noted, escapevelocity, we can address this issue in isolation, then that issue in isolation, then the other in isolation, but we&#8217;ll never address the driving force behind it all.   We can get apopleptic about the lack of prayer in schools (why is the separation of church and state the only constitutional principle that is never, ever open to modification, only to reinforcement?  Anyone?).  We can get apopleptic about late-term abortions,  etc, but we&#8217;re fighting with one hand tied behind our back when we do, while the left is hitting us with krav maga.  It was a good first step when some red-diaper babies became neocons back in the seventies, but it seems to me that David Frum has his sights pointed the wrong way.  The problem isn&#8217;t that the Republicans aren&#8217;t reaching out aggressively enough to the left (kind of a strange image, if you think of it).  The problem is that the intellectual left is still unable to face or acknowledge the the cultural, the moral, the economic mess it&#8217;s made over the past several decades.  The apology needs to come from the intellectual left, not from the right.  It always has, and I&#8217;m not really seeing it.</p>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/kabaservice-on-tanenhaus-the-death-of-conservatism/comment-page-3#comment-63653</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=11518#comment-63653</guid>
		<description>The most glaring example of this anti Westernism, is in the Lefts turn on Israel and its apologia and support for Islam and Muslim societies and cultures, and opposing US (and Western) war efforts to beat back the scourge of humanity, Islam and particularly its fundamentalist and reactionary forms.  This is the classic extenuation of the anti interventionist anti war stance vis a vis the Cold War, which was not pro peace, but rather pro Communist, Socialist, Totalitarianism, which was the point and the effect.

We constantly hear fretting about treating Muslims poorly and not respecting their culture and religion, but we get scurilous attacks on Christianity which is portrayed in the most vile terms.

Its lunacy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most glaring example of this anti Westernism, is in the Lefts turn on Israel and its apologia and support for Islam and Muslim societies and cultures, and opposing US (and Western) war efforts to beat back the scourge of humanity, Islam and particularly its fundamentalist and reactionary forms.  This is the classic extenuation of the anti interventionist anti war stance vis a vis the Cold War, which was not pro peace, but rather pro Communist, Socialist, Totalitarianism, which was the point and the effect.</p>
<p>We constantly hear fretting about treating Muslims poorly and not respecting their culture and religion, but we get scurilous attacks on Christianity which is portrayed in the most vile terms.</p>
<p>Its lunacy!</p>
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		<title>By: Corky</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/kabaservice-on-tanenhaus-the-death-of-conservatism/comment-page-3#comment-63649</link>
		<dc:creator>Corky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=11518#comment-63649</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve lived my whole life on the fringes of the South, but I haven&#039;t lived and looked for work in the heart of the Old South,  so I can&#039;t speak to affirmative action&#039;s effects on the daily lives of whites in the old south.  As to your other point, I&#039;d say that your characterization of the intellectual left is spot on.  (I&#039;m cooking dinner, back in a minute...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve lived my whole life on the fringes of the South, but I haven&#8217;t lived and looked for work in the heart of the Old South,  so I can&#8217;t speak to affirmative action&#8217;s effects on the daily lives of whites in the old south.  As to your other point, I&#8217;d say that your characterization of the intellectual left is spot on.  (I&#8217;m cooking dinner, back in a minute&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/kabaservice-on-tanenhaus-the-death-of-conservatism/comment-page-3#comment-63635</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=11518#comment-63635</guid>
		<description>Now intellectualism is a joke. 

Ive heard it all on this site now.

Corky, its an interesting question isnt it corky?  Because it would seem that the South is ripe for the Leftist picking, right in line with their playbook and Marxist interpretation of history.  A group that has been oppressed by teh Western Capitalist Imperialist Bourgousie.

My understanding is that it is rooted in the Lefts anti Westernism.  In their eyes the Southern Whites are the problem.  The culture war is against them, and other Europeans and now the Israelis have come under their ire....which has really got the Jews stirred up, because the Jews have been within the Leftist fold, even leaders and great thinkers within the Leftist movement.

The Southerners are to have their culture destroyed, anti Christianity is part of it....so that the revolution can commense.  The Left needs an enemy to rally differing groups around in order to hold a coalition of disperate groups together for power.  The White Western Christian Capitalist Patriarchy. 

But their is something else going on here as well.  The Northern Leftwing elites do not want to disempower themselves, which is what this would do.  So in a sense this is the old Civil War conflict, where the Northerners are attempting to excercise power over the rest of the country, via the Federal Government. 

To illustrate this, lets take Affirmative Action and Hiring Preferences for African Americans.

In the North (and other areas) this is much less controversial.  Why?  Because there are far fewer blacks in those areas.  Its affects are not overall intrusive.  However in the South where an area may be 50 percent African American and 50 percent White....this has massive impact on the white population.  Preferences in hiring and college admissions have much greater effect on Southern populations.


What say you corky?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now intellectualism is a joke. </p>
<p>Ive heard it all on this site now.</p>
<p>Corky, its an interesting question isnt it corky?  Because it would seem that the South is ripe for the Leftist picking, right in line with their playbook and Marxist interpretation of history.  A group that has been oppressed by teh Western Capitalist Imperialist Bourgousie.</p>
<p>My understanding is that it is rooted in the Lefts anti Westernism.  In their eyes the Southern Whites are the problem.  The culture war is against them, and other Europeans and now the Israelis have come under their ire&#8230;.which has really got the Jews stirred up, because the Jews have been within the Leftist fold, even leaders and great thinkers within the Leftist movement.</p>
<p>The Southerners are to have their culture destroyed, anti Christianity is part of it&#8230;.so that the revolution can commense.  The Left needs an enemy to rally differing groups around in order to hold a coalition of disperate groups together for power.  The White Western Christian Capitalist Patriarchy. </p>
<p>But their is something else going on here as well.  The Northern Leftwing elites do not want to disempower themselves, which is what this would do.  So in a sense this is the old Civil War conflict, where the Northerners are attempting to excercise power over the rest of the country, via the Federal Government. </p>
<p>To illustrate this, lets take Affirmative Action and Hiring Preferences for African Americans.</p>
<p>In the North (and other areas) this is much less controversial.  Why?  Because there are far fewer blacks in those areas.  Its affects are not overall intrusive.  However in the South where an area may be 50 percent African American and 50 percent White&#8230;.this has massive impact on the white population.  Preferences in hiring and college admissions have much greater effect on Southern populations.</p>
<p>What say you corky?</p>
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		<title>By: SergeantS</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/kabaservice-on-tanenhaus-the-death-of-conservatism/comment-page-3#comment-63627</link>
		<dc:creator>SergeantS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=11518#comment-63627</guid>
		<description>Good Lord--could you please bring your brain into the 21 century from the 19th? This discussion is about the FUTURE of the conservative philosophy...not the past. Dragging up the Civil War stuff is not really useful to any sort of discussion. It&#039;s good to know your history, but unless you are a history professor, it&#039;s bad to fixate upon it....and this comment thread is doing exactly that. I was born and raised in the South, and I could not care less about any supposed white Southern grievances, and the more time you devote to a thread that has very little bearing on the premise of the original post, then the more this whole discussion becomes a joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Lord&#8211;could you please bring your brain into the 21 century from the 19th? This discussion is about the FUTURE of the conservative philosophy&#8230;not the past. Dragging up the Civil War stuff is not really useful to any sort of discussion. It&#8217;s good to know your history, but unless you are a history professor, it&#8217;s bad to fixate upon it&#8230;.and this comment thread is doing exactly that. I was born and raised in the South, and I could not care less about any supposed white Southern grievances, and the more time you devote to a thread that has very little bearing on the premise of the original post, then the more this whole discussion becomes a joke.</p>
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		<title>By: Corky</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/kabaservice-on-tanenhaus-the-death-of-conservatism/comment-page-3#comment-63567</link>
		<dc:creator>Corky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=11518#comment-63567</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to hear your answer as to why it hasn&#039;t happened yet, eascpevelocity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to hear your answer as to why it hasn&#8217;t happened yet, eascpevelocity.</p>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/kabaservice-on-tanenhaus-the-death-of-conservatism/comment-page-3#comment-63521</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 07:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=11518#comment-63521</guid>
		<description>This is an intellectual discussion, is no one willing to proffer a reason?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an intellectual discussion, is no one willing to proffer a reason?</p>
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		<title>By: EscapeVelocity</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/kabaservice-on-tanenhaus-the-death-of-conservatism/comment-page-3#comment-63520</link>
		<dc:creator>EscapeVelocity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 06:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=11518#comment-63520</guid>
		<description>Well, I dont expect to change the minds of bigots who have no use for historical facts who are more concerned about continuing to justify their irrational hatred....but there is a another way...

I proffered a compromise solution, where you get to keep your preffered myths (and Southerners get to keep their preffered myths...well they arent myths but from your perspective they are).....this falls under the cultural relativism moniker.   We (as in everybody is forced to in the public school system and cirricular) celebrate the Southern versions of history, they are promoted in Southern Studies University Programs, that type of thing.  This is part of the celebrating diversity meme, and also college admission preferences for Southerners is isntitued, Affirmative Action hiring programs to equalize the economically and educationally historically and currently disadvantaged Southerners.  The Southern Gap.  Special protections against would be discrimination against Southerners.  And also, campaigns to end the negative stereotyping of Southerners and end the bigotry.

The question still remains.  Why has the Left not pursued this strategy, they could bring the Southerners into the Left coalition and form a permanent majority.  Why has this not happened?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I dont expect to change the minds of bigots who have no use for historical facts who are more concerned about continuing to justify their irrational hatred&#8230;.but there is a another way&#8230;</p>
<p>I proffered a compromise solution, where you get to keep your preffered myths (and Southerners get to keep their preffered myths&#8230;well they arent myths but from your perspective they are)&#8230;..this falls under the cultural relativism moniker.   We (as in everybody is forced to in the public school system and cirricular) celebrate the Southern versions of history, they are promoted in Southern Studies University Programs, that type of thing.  This is part of the celebrating diversity meme, and also college admission preferences for Southerners is isntitued, Affirmative Action hiring programs to equalize the economically and educationally historically and currently disadvantaged Southerners.  The Southern Gap.  Special protections against would be discrimination against Southerners.  And also, campaigns to end the negative stereotyping of Southerners and end the bigotry.</p>
<p>The question still remains.  Why has the Left not pursued this strategy, they could bring the Southerners into the Left coalition and form a permanent majority.  Why has this not happened?</p>
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		<title>By: greg_barton</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/kabaservice-on-tanenhaus-the-death-of-conservatism/comment-page-3#comment-63511</link>
		<dc:creator>greg_barton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 05:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=11518#comment-63511</guid>
		<description>Man,  escapevelocity, you exceed expectations every time.  Keep it up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man,  escapevelocity, you exceed expectations every time.  Keep it up!</p>
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