Comments on: How Republicans Can Reconnect With Independents And Win In The Northeast Again http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-again Building a conservatism that can win again Sat, 20 Mar 2010 09:07:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: David Frum acolyte and Neocon John Avlon attacks extremist Tea Baggers « Old Atlantic Lighthouse http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-again/comment-page-1#comment-82176 David Frum acolyte and Neocon John Avlon attacks extremist Tea Baggers « Old Atlantic Lighthouse Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:58:16 +0000 #comment-82176 [...] http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-ag... Ten years ago, before the Bush/Cheney/Rove/DeLay-era, centrist Republican congressmen and mayors dotted the Northeast – and only two states north of (and including) Pennsylvania had Democratic governors.  Today, they are an endangered species.  The phrase “urban Republican” – an idea once embodied by Rudy Giuliani and Steve Goldsmith – sounds more and more like an oxymoron. [...] [...] http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-ag... Ten years ago, before the Bush/Cheney/Rove/DeLay-era, centrist Republican congressmen and mayors dotted the Northeast – and only two states north of (and including) Pennsylvania had Democratic governors.  Today, they are an endangered species.  The phrase “urban Republican” – an idea once embodied by Rudy Giuliani and Steve Goldsmith – sounds more and more like an oxymoron. [...]

]]> By: Graf http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-again/comment-page-1#comment-39878 Graf Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:11:54 +0000 #comment-39878 I enjoyed this article and would be interested in Mr. Avlon's article on 1964 and minorities, for which the hypertext seems not to be working. I'm a big fan of "Independent Nation," btw. I enjoyed this article and would be interested in Mr. Avlon’s article on 1964 and minorities, for which the hypertext seems not to be working. I’m a big fan of “Independent Nation,” btw.

]]> By: eli http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-again/comment-page-1#comment-39144 eli Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:36:31 +0000 #comment-39144 I'd like to take issue with your first step, "Admit the Mistakes of the Bush Era." While I *do* think it's important to change Republican policies that didn't work, I *don't* think we should make repentance part of our strategy (if that's what you mean)-- and that's because we'd be jumping the gun when it's unnecessary. If one thing comes out of President Obama's administration, I think it will be newfound appreciation for President Bush. So why actively try to undermine that? I’d like to take issue with your first step, “Admit the Mistakes of the Bush Era.” While I *do* think it’s important to change Republican policies that didn’t work, I *don’t* think we should make repentance part of our strategy (if that’s what you mean)– and that’s because we’d be jumping the gun when it’s unnecessary. If one thing comes out of President Obama’s administration, I think it will be newfound appreciation for President Bush. So why actively try to undermine that?

]]> By: DougD http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-again/comment-page-1#comment-40988 DougD Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:20:46 +0000 #comment-40988 Mr. Avlon - I find your comments depressing for the following reason: they're all no-brainers, and yet the beat goes on. I've been in some disfunctional organizations and have had the same nauseating feeling - that everyone in the place knows the problem, but no one is able to get through to the decision-makers who listen only to "team players" and comfortable voices. Sadly, this kind of problem usually persists for years. Like an addict in denial, I fear the party may have to *really* fail before your sensible observations have a hope. Mr. Avlon – I find your comments depressing for the following reason: they’re all no-brainers, and yet the beat goes on. I’ve been in some disfunctional organizations and have had the same nauseating feeling – that everyone in the place knows the problem, but no one is able to get through to the decision-makers who listen only to “team players” and comfortable voices. Sadly, this kind of problem usually persists for years. Like an addict in denial, I fear the party may have to *really* fail before your sensible observations have a hope.

]]> By: Bob Miller http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-again/comment-page-1#comment-54263 Bob Miller Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:18:19 +0000 #comment-54263 There is always the possibility we don't like to consider---that today's voters in general may be dumbed down and wrong about key issues and values, and need to be educated rather than catered to. This would mean, for example, that Republicans have no long term hope of a comeback without cracking the left/liberal educational monopoly. There is always the possibility we don’t like to consider—that today’s voters in general may be dumbed down and wrong about key issues and values, and need to be educated rather than catered to.

This would mean, for example, that Republicans have no long term hope of a comeback without cracking the left/liberal educational monopoly.

]]> By: Dave941 http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-again/comment-page-1#comment-54002 Dave941 Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:33:27 +0000 #comment-54002 As Delaware con-moderate I agree. I'm pro life, pro gay and pro fiscal sanity. Big issues win elections; not this non stop whining about being pure on issues. As Delaware con-moderate I agree. I’m pro life, pro gay and pro fiscal sanity. Big issues win elections; not this non stop whining about being pure on issues.

]]> By: Neo http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-again/comment-page-1#comment-48743 Neo Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:47:02 +0000 #comment-48743 It's the economy .. stupid It’s the economy .. stupid

]]> By: ziss http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-again/comment-page-1#comment-47828 ziss Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:45:26 +0000 #comment-47828 Although in agreement with many of the positions taken by social conservatives, I don't consider myself one. I do think, however, that John and others exaggerate the political harm social conservatism does to the Republican party. There are a large number of Catholic ethnics throughout the Northeast who may not be Alabama evangelical types, but who are sympathetic to conservative social positions and hostile to social liberalism. These folks are more sensitive to economic conditions than they are to the social conservatism of the national Republican party. What has caused the Northeast's move to the left and Democratic has been the change in the old Yankee Republicans. Their move has been due to social factors and, in many areas, environmental issues. The ethnics--Irish, Italian, particularly---because of their sensitivity to economic conditions, are swing voters and can become consistent Republicans if economic issues are formulated in a Reagan-type fashion. The old Yankee Republicans, as they have turned left on the environment and social issues, have also moved left economically. The Republican losses in 08 were primarily due to the economic issues and the continued drift of Yankee Republicans. On balance, therefore, the Northeast is much less liberal and Democratic than you are arguing and much more likely to become a swing area, particularly when the economic issues are in play. Although in agreement with many of the positions taken by social conservatives, I don’t consider myself one. I do think, however, that John and others exaggerate the political harm social conservatism does to the Republican party. There are a large number of Catholic ethnics throughout the Northeast who may not be Alabama evangelical types, but who are sympathetic to conservative social positions and hostile to social liberalism. These folks are more sensitive to economic conditions than they are to the social conservatism of the national Republican party. What has caused the Northeast’s move to the left and Democratic has been the change in the old Yankee Republicans. Their move has been due to social factors and, in many areas, environmental issues. The ethnics–Irish, Italian, particularly—because of their sensitivity to economic conditions, are swing voters and can become consistent Republicans if economic issues are formulated in a Reagan-type fashion. The old Yankee Republicans, as they have turned left on the environment and social issues, have also moved left economically. The Republican losses in 08 were primarily due to the economic issues and the continued drift of Yankee Republicans. On balance, therefore, the Northeast is much less liberal and Democratic than you are arguing and much more likely to become a swing area, particularly when the economic issues are in play.

]]> By: JJWFromME http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-again/comment-page-1#comment-48963 JJWFromME Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:59:46 +0000 #comment-48963 Neo wrote: "So long as the Republicans roll over and take sole blame for Democrat (and bi-partisan) screwups, like the current financial mess, they will be irrelevant." One things that has messed up the GOP is that they read their own press too much. See this post: http://policingwingnutwelfare.blogspot.com/2009/01/even-good-republicans-pass-along-bad.html Yes, Democrats were partly to blame for the financial mess. But that's because they discarded some their own traditional principles under conservative pressure. These days we need less cookie-cutter market fundamentalism and more countervailing power. Even William Buckley thought so in this case: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjhlMzhjNTJlNmY4Y2NhOGYzOWQyOWUyYjA3MTYxYjE= Neo wrote: “So long as the Republicans roll over and take sole blame for Democrat (and bi-partisan) screwups, like the current financial mess, they will be irrelevant.”

One things that has messed up the GOP is that they read their own press too much. See this post: http://policingwingnutwelfare.blogspot.com/2009/01/even-good-republicans-pass-along-bad.html

Yes, Democrats were partly to blame for the financial mess. But that’s because they discarded some their own traditional principles under conservative pressure. These days we need less cookie-cutter market fundamentalism and more countervailing power. Even William Buckley thought so in this case: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjhlMzhjNTJlNmY4Y2NhOGYzOWQyOWUyYjA3MTYxYjE=

]]> By: Neo http://www.frumforum.com/how-republicans-can-reconnect-with-independents-and-win-in-the-northeast-again/comment-page-1#comment-52127 Neo Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:32:07 +0000 #comment-52127 So long as the Republicans roll over and take sole blame for Democrat (and bi-partisan) screwups, like the current financial mess, they will be irrelevant. It really seems as though the Republicans want people to think that they are still running the Congress. Having lost control of both houses 2 years ago, the American people voted this last election thinking that the entire government was run by Republicans. So long as the Republicans roll over and take sole blame for Democrat (and bi-partisan) screwups, like the current financial mess, they will be irrelevant.

It really seems as though the Republicans want people to think that they are still running the Congress. Having lost control of both houses 2 years ago, the American people voted this last election thinking that the entire government was run by Republicans.

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