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	<title>Comments on: Horowitz Replies to Frum</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: joedee1969</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/horowitz-replies-to-frum/comment-page-3#comment-66219</link>
		<dc:creator>joedee1969</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12865#comment-66219</guid>
		<description>This is why C. Rich is calling for David to have his own show:

http://americaspeaksink.com/2009/09/calm-conservatives-this-is-our-time/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is why C. Rich is calling for David to have his own show:</p>
<p><a href="http://americaspeaksink.com/2009/09/calm-conservatives-this-is-our-time/" rel="nofollow">http://americaspeaksink.com/2009/09/calm-conservatives-this-is-our-time/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/horowitz-replies-to-frum/comment-page-3#comment-66046</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 03:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12865#comment-66046</guid>
		<description>jeninct:

They view us with contempt.  Try not to let it get to you.  If you read between the lines, you can learn something from these a$$holes.  Just be aware that they&#039;re trying to use words to turn us into their sheep.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jeninct:</p>
<p>They view us with contempt.  Try not to let it get to you.  If you read between the lines, you can learn something from these a$$holes.  Just be aware that they&#8217;re trying to use words to turn us into their sheep.</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/horowitz-replies-to-frum/comment-page-3#comment-66040</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12865#comment-66040</guid>
		<description>athensboy:  &lt;b&gt;Doesn’t this country ever learn?&lt;/b&gt;

Only very slowly.  We have made some progress in the last 9 years - at this time in 2000, Al Gore was going around saying that if we moved towards renewable energy and CO2 reduction in America, the technologies we developed would propel our economy in the 2000&#039;s the way that semiconductors did in the 90&#039;s.

In 2008, we actually elected a President who was making essentially the same pledge.  Of course, the 8 years in between cost us dearly, but hey - we got some great tax cuts to fuel a derivatives bubble with!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>athensboy:  Doesn’t this country ever learn?</p>
<p>Only very slowly.  We have made some progress in the last 9 years &#8211; at this time in 2000, Al Gore was going around saying that if we moved towards renewable energy and CO2 reduction in America, the technologies we developed would propel our economy in the 2000&#8217;s the way that semiconductors did in the 90&#8217;s.</p>
<p>In 2008, we actually elected a President who was making essentially the same pledge.  Of course, the 8 years in between cost us dearly, but hey &#8211; we got some great tax cuts to fuel a derivatives bubble with!</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/horowitz-replies-to-frum/comment-page-3#comment-66039</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12865#comment-66039</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;said Schlafly, asked about Werthmann’s “How to Recognize Living Under Nazis and Communists” session. “She’s an expert on that. I see what [Obama] is doing as absolute socialism, as government ownership of the means of production.”&lt;/b&gt;

Well, they may be crazy paranoiacs ... but at least they understand the definition of socialism, as opposed to many here.


And Annamarie - you&#039;re right - they are afraid.  And what they really have to be afraid of is that it is looking more and more like the public option will pass (latest polls show 65% support versus 28% against).  And after it passes, and is implemented - people will see that most private businesses in America actually benefit from the public option, with a boon to small busness development, and  large businesses happy to over time surrender the additional administrative burden of being health insurance providers - the rhetoric from the right over the last 9 months is going to look like Gingrich&#039;s predictions back in 1993 that Clinton&#039;s tax cuts would result in years of financial collapse in America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>said Schlafly, asked about Werthmann’s “How to Recognize Living Under Nazis and Communists” session. “She’s an expert on that. I see what [Obama] is doing as absolute socialism, as government ownership of the means of production.”</p>
<p>Well, they may be crazy paranoiacs &#8230; but at least they understand the definition of socialism, as opposed to many here.</p>
<p>And Annamarie &#8211; you&#8217;re right &#8211; they are afraid.  And what they really have to be afraid of is that it is looking more and more like the public option will pass (latest polls show 65% support versus 28% against).  And after it passes, and is implemented &#8211; people will see that most private businesses in America actually benefit from the public option, with a boon to small busness development, and  large businesses happy to over time surrender the additional administrative burden of being health insurance providers &#8211; the rhetoric from the right over the last 9 months is going to look like Gingrich&#8217;s predictions back in 1993 that Clinton&#8217;s tax cuts would result in years of financial collapse in America.</p>
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		<title>By: athensboy</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/horowitz-replies-to-frum/comment-page-3#comment-66038</link>
		<dc:creator>athensboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12865#comment-66038</guid>
		<description>anniemargaret is right about China and alternative energy. Tom Friedman stated that China has the jump on us as far as alternative energy goes and we could end up importing Chinese technology and its products as far as alternative energy products. Doesn&#039;t this country ever learn? Our industries are at a disadvantage against countries that have national health care. All I see from the gop is scare tactics. Are they willing to slash and burn if it gets them back in power. Even the guru of politics, Frank Luntz says, you have to be for something to win elections, you just can&#039;t be against something. The Party of No just won&#039;t cut it IMHO</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anniemargaret is right about China and alternative energy. Tom Friedman stated that China has the jump on us as far as alternative energy goes and we could end up importing Chinese technology and its products as far as alternative energy products. Doesn&#8217;t this country ever learn? Our industries are at a disadvantage against countries that have national health care. All I see from the gop is scare tactics. Are they willing to slash and burn if it gets them back in power. Even the guru of politics, Frank Luntz says, you have to be for something to win elections, you just can&#8217;t be against something. The Party of No just won&#8217;t cut it IMHO</p>
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		<title>By: anniemargret</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/horowitz-replies-to-frum/comment-page-3#comment-66037</link>
		<dc:creator>anniemargret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12865#comment-66037</guid>
		<description>So reforming the skyrocketing healthcare costs which are putting working class Americans into bankruptcy, and ignoring the dire plight of the 45000+ Americans is making American into a &#039;socialist&#039; nation?  So sayeth the Republicans.  

 90% of the backlash against Obama and his efforts are political.  For 8 years, the Republicans ignored the issue . Now that Obama has taken the reins, they are scared to death.  It might mean the Democrats might do something constructive for America, and we can&#039;t have that.  DeMint let the cat out of the bag with his Obama and his &#039;Waterloo&#039; wish.   

In the meantime, while Republicans are spending more effort to scare the bejesus out of Americans that our country will devolve into some third world state, China is busy attending to business.  While Republicans are marching to DC about &#039;death panels&#039; and Obama is the devil incarnate, etc...  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China 

They are well on their way to a viable new industry.  Other nations have also taken the reins.  Have we?  Why not?  

Why not put those great new American minds into renewable energy sources.....thereby ending our addiction to oil, forcing an end to the power of the Middle East oil rulers.  By putting them out of power, we can redirect our monies to re-strengthen our military, (instead of future oil wars as peak oil continues unabated).  

A bold step for strengthening American industry, self-containment, renewable sources of energy, job creation, and a boost for our military.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So reforming the skyrocketing healthcare costs which are putting working class Americans into bankruptcy, and ignoring the dire plight of the 45000+ Americans is making American into a &#8217;socialist&#8217; nation?  So sayeth the Republicans.  </p>
<p> 90% of the backlash against Obama and his efforts are political.  For 8 years, the Republicans ignored the issue . Now that Obama has taken the reins, they are scared to death.  It might mean the Democrats might do something constructive for America, and we can&#8217;t have that.  DeMint let the cat out of the bag with his Obama and his &#8216;Waterloo&#8217; wish.   </p>
<p>In the meantime, while Republicans are spending more effort to scare the bejesus out of Americans that our country will devolve into some third world state, China is busy attending to business.  While Republicans are marching to DC about &#8216;death panels&#8217; and Obama is the devil incarnate, etc&#8230;  </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China</a> </p>
<p>They are well on their way to a viable new industry.  Other nations have also taken the reins.  Have we?  Why not?  </p>
<p>Why not put those great new American minds into renewable energy sources&#8230;..thereby ending our addiction to oil, forcing an end to the power of the Middle East oil rulers.  By putting them out of power, we can redirect our monies to re-strengthen our military, (instead of future oil wars as peak oil continues unabated).  </p>
<p>A bold step for strengthening American industry, self-containment, renewable sources of energy, job creation, and a boost for our military.</p>
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		<title>By: mlindroo</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/horowitz-replies-to-frum/comment-page-3#comment-66032</link>
		<dc:creator>mlindroo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12865#comment-66032</guid>
		<description>Sinz54,

I find it truly baffling that any sane person could describe Canada as &quot;socialist&quot; nation while (still using the same yardstick-) the United States is described as &quot;capitalist. You make it sound as if &quot;non-socialism&quot; basically  &quot;massive military spending&quot; which is the same as being a superpower. 

I am curious, though. Are New Zealand and Australia also &quot;socialist&quot; by your definition? And how many nations can be described as &quot;capitalist&quot;?
But those are questions for tomorrow...time to go to bed.



MARCU$

PS: Returning to my original post, I hear from Andrew Sullivan that there has been a major &quot;Take America Back&quot; seminar hosted by Phyllis Schlafly &amp; co.. Here&#039;s Phyllis:

“Kitty has pointed out the parallels between the slow, incremental Hitler takeover of Austria and some of the things that are happening today,” said Schlafly, asked about Werthmann’s “How to Recognize Living Under Nazis and Communists” session. “She’s an expert on that. I see what [Obama] is doing as absolute socialism, as government ownership of the means of production.”

I am sure Sinz agrees:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinz54,</p>
<p>I find it truly baffling that any sane person could describe Canada as &#8220;socialist&#8221; nation while (still using the same yardstick-) the United States is described as &#8220;capitalist. You make it sound as if &#8220;non-socialism&#8221; basically  &#8220;massive military spending&#8221; which is the same as being a superpower. </p>
<p>I am curious, though. Are New Zealand and Australia also &#8220;socialist&#8221; by your definition? And how many nations can be described as &#8220;capitalist&#8221;?<br />
But those are questions for tomorrow&#8230;time to go to bed.</p>
<p>MARCU$</p>
<p>PS: Returning to my original post, I hear from Andrew Sullivan that there has been a major &#8220;Take America Back&#8221; seminar hosted by Phyllis Schlafly &amp; co.. Here&#8217;s Phyllis:</p>
<p>“Kitty has pointed out the parallels between the slow, incremental Hitler takeover of Austria and some of the things that are happening today,” said Schlafly, asked about Werthmann’s “How to Recognize Living Under Nazis and Communists” session. “She’s an expert on that. I see what [Obama] is doing as absolute socialism, as government ownership of the means of production.”</p>
<p>I am sure Sinz agrees:-)</p>
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		<title>By: SpartacusIsNotDead</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/horowitz-replies-to-frum/comment-page-3#comment-66028</link>
		<dc:creator>SpartacusIsNotDead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12865#comment-66028</guid>
		<description>balconesfault,  I&#039;m afraid you are exactly right - and the rest of the country may have to suffer because of this childish game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>balconesfault,  I&#8217;m afraid you are exactly right &#8211; and the rest of the country may have to suffer because of this childish game.</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/horowitz-replies-to-frum/comment-page-3#comment-66025</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12865#comment-66025</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Sinz and the other flat earthers now believe that universal healthcare with a public option will result in socialism and, in turn, the inevitable loss of U.S. superpower status. Of all the arguments against a public option, this is absolutely the dumbest one yet.&lt;/b&gt;

I think that Sinz actually understands the value that universal healthcare would bring to America - but he also knows that in the long run, if any healthcare bill is passed that expands coverage and provides additional security to Americans ... at this stage, Republicans will be in opposition to the last moment, and Democrats will get all the credit.  And in a few years, if the program is very successful and well liked, the Democrats are going to reap huge electoral successes as a result.

Now, one way to deal with this inevitability would be to encourage Republicans to join the process, work for cost-containment (instead of using any talk of cost-containment to raise the specter of &quot;Death Panels&quot;), and be viewed as part of the success.  But Sinz also knows that given the current makeup of the Republican congressional delegation, this isn&#039;t going to happen.

So status quo, as disasterous as that is going to be for our economy over the long run, is preferential to change that might end up causing a major shift in party affiliation.  Thus is the corner the GOP has painted itself into.  And they really can&#039;t blame Obama for that maneuvering - he has given them every opportunity to come aboard and take credit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinz and the other flat earthers now believe that universal healthcare with a public option will result in socialism and, in turn, the inevitable loss of U.S. superpower status. Of all the arguments against a public option, this is absolutely the dumbest one yet.</p>
<p>I think that Sinz actually understands the value that universal healthcare would bring to America &#8211; but he also knows that in the long run, if any healthcare bill is passed that expands coverage and provides additional security to Americans &#8230; at this stage, Republicans will be in opposition to the last moment, and Democrats will get all the credit.  And in a few years, if the program is very successful and well liked, the Democrats are going to reap huge electoral successes as a result.</p>
<p>Now, one way to deal with this inevitability would be to encourage Republicans to join the process, work for cost-containment (instead of using any talk of cost-containment to raise the specter of &#8220;Death Panels&#8221;), and be viewed as part of the success.  But Sinz also knows that given the current makeup of the Republican congressional delegation, this isn&#8217;t going to happen.</p>
<p>So status quo, as disasterous as that is going to be for our economy over the long run, is preferential to change that might end up causing a major shift in party affiliation.  Thus is the corner the GOP has painted itself into.  And they really can&#8217;t blame Obama for that maneuvering &#8211; he has given them every opportunity to come aboard and take credit.</p>
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		<title>By: SpartacusIsNotDead</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/horowitz-replies-to-frum/comment-page-3#comment-66017</link>
		<dc:creator>SpartacusIsNotDead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12865#comment-66017</guid>
		<description>Sinz says Obama&#039;s policies are pushing the country into socialism, but when asked what specific Obama policies are having this effect, he can&#039;t cite any.  In light of the fact that most of the policies that people on the Right complain about (e.g. TARP, auto bailouts, etc.) were started by Bush, one can only assume Sinz is referring to Obama&#039;s desire to have a public option as part of a plan for universal healthcare.

Sinz and the other flat earthers now believe that universal healthcare with a public option will result in socialism and, in turn, the inevitable loss of U.S. superpower status.  Of all the arguments against a public option, this is absolutely the dumbest one yet.

According to Sinz, the U.S. must be the only Western democracy in the world that is not socialist because all other Western democracies have a public option or something substantially similar.  And, what happened to all the other conservative dire predictions about the &quot;socialism&quot; and loss of freedom that were to inevitably result from public schools, social security, Medicare and Medicaid?  Each of those were far less capitalistic in nature than a public option for health insurance, yet the U.S. had no problem whatsoever maintaining superpower status after these were enacted.  If anything, a very strong argument can be made that creation of public schools and social security laid the foundation for the U.S. becoming a superpower.

Sinz&#039;s arguments are nothing more than the product of a shallow, fearful thought process (I use that term loosely) that is more concerned with labels and ideology than with empirical evidence.  He is truly a flat earther.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinz says Obama&#8217;s policies are pushing the country into socialism, but when asked what specific Obama policies are having this effect, he can&#8217;t cite any.  In light of the fact that most of the policies that people on the Right complain about (e.g. TARP, auto bailouts, etc.) were started by Bush, one can only assume Sinz is referring to Obama&#8217;s desire to have a public option as part of a plan for universal healthcare.</p>
<p>Sinz and the other flat earthers now believe that universal healthcare with a public option will result in socialism and, in turn, the inevitable loss of U.S. superpower status.  Of all the arguments against a public option, this is absolutely the dumbest one yet.</p>
<p>According to Sinz, the U.S. must be the only Western democracy in the world that is not socialist because all other Western democracies have a public option or something substantially similar.  And, what happened to all the other conservative dire predictions about the &#8220;socialism&#8221; and loss of freedom that were to inevitably result from public schools, social security, Medicare and Medicaid?  Each of those were far less capitalistic in nature than a public option for health insurance, yet the U.S. had no problem whatsoever maintaining superpower status after these were enacted.  If anything, a very strong argument can be made that creation of public schools and social security laid the foundation for the U.S. becoming a superpower.</p>
<p>Sinz&#8217;s arguments are nothing more than the product of a shallow, fearful thought process (I use that term loosely) that is more concerned with labels and ideology than with empirical evidence.  He is truly a flat earther.</p>
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