Hispanic Voters Giving Up on the GOP

October 6th, 2010 at 7:57 am | 62 Comments |

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On Tuesday, the Pew Hispanic Center released a new report which reveals the extent to which the Republican party has managed to alienate the fastest growing voter group in the U.S.

Pew found that 65% of registered Latino voters will support Democrats in the upcoming midterms, while only 22% say they will vote Republican.  That means that despite the Democrats’ total inability to govern, they will maintain their lopsided advantage among Latino voters.  In 2008, President Obama managed to knock off Senator McCain 67%-31% within the demographic.

The poll numbers make it clear that Hispanic voters really dislike the Republican Party.  Fortunately for Republicans, Hispanic voters also seem remarkably apathetic about showing up at the ballot box in order to make their voices heard.  Only 51% of registered Latino voters responded that they are “absolutely certain” that they will cast a ballot come November.  This response demonstrates that as a community, Latino voters continue to punch significantly below their weight at the polls (70% of all registered voters say that they are “absolutely certain” they will cast a ballot in November).

The Democrats’ lopsided advantage amongst Hispanics won’t hurt so badly this election cycle, except in big (and diverse) states like California; but it will in election cycles not so far down the road if the GOP does not take notice of this troubling trend and act to reverse it.

There can be little doubt that Republicans nationwide are cognizant of the Latino voter’s propensity to stay home on Election Day.  If more Latinos voted, we would hear less praise of Arizona’s laws and less talk of rounding up illegals and less talk of the need to restrict education and basic social services to those that cannot prove their citizenship.  But at the moment, the Latino community doesn’t show up and thus many Republicans feel free to score political points on the issue of immigration.

In the short run, this may help the Republican party win elections, but the Latino community is growing fast.  It may be good politics for many Republicans to ignore Latino voters today, but there will come a day when Hispanic voters do make themselves heard.  What is good politics today will haunt the GOP tomorrow.  Win or lose, a large group of people does not like us and Republicans had better set about addressing this problem sooner rather than later.  Otherwise, there will be far fewer election cycles in which Republicans beam with the sort of optimism that pervades the party leadership today.


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62 Comments so far ↓

  • pampl

    I disagree with the title of this post – “Hispanic Voters Giving Up on the GOP”. To me, that implies a decline, but the polling data don’t indicate this.
    “Democrats are seen as the party that has more concern for Hispanics. Nearly half (47%) of Latino registered voters say this about the Democratic Party-down from 55% in 2008, but similar to the share on this question expressed by Latinos for much of the past decade. In contrast, very few see the Republican Party as more concerned about Latinos than the Democratic Party-just 6% of all Latino registered voters and 18% of Republican Latino registered voters say this.”
    (Bolding my own)
    This seems to contradict the body of the post, at least partially:
    “[T]he new survey shows that immigration does not rank as a top voting issue for Hispanics. Rather, they rank education, jobs and health care as their top three issues of concern for this year’s congressional campaign. Immigration ranks as the fifth most important issue for Latino registered voters and as the fourth most important issue for all Latinos. “

  • armstp

    What is just as important as these poll numbers is that today hispanic school children make-up +40% of all school children in Texas, Nevada, New Mexico and Arizona and +30% of school children in Colorado. But, more importantly +85% of the growth in school children in those states is from the growth in hispanic school children, meaning that those +40% numbers are increasing very fast. Given those trends in say +10 years it is likely hispanics will be the majority of the population in those states. Meaning that the Republicans will likely loses their ability to win those states. Can you imagine the Republicans not being able to win Texas, the only large state in the country they can consistently win today? Whatever momentum they get from the Tea Party, this growth in hispanics should be very very troubling for the GOP. I predict the GOP anti-Latino attitude will only grow. Driven by the Tea Party the coming battle in this country, particularly given the debt situation, will be for resources between the older largely white retired people and the growing younger hispanics. Social security/medicare versus healthcare/education.

    Here is another troubling recent poll for Republicans.

    60 Percent Disapproval Of GOP Leaders

    Republican congressional leaders have sought to frame the upcoming midterms as a referendum on Democrats and their ability to govern, but six in 10 Americans have a negative view of the very GOP chiefs making the argument. That level of GOP unpopularity leaves the Democrats some campaign leverage against their GOP critics with less than a month to go before Election Day.

    The latest Society for Human Resource Management/National Journal Congressional Connection Poll, conducted with the Pew Research Center, shows that Republican leaders on Capitol Hill drew a spare 24 percent approval rating, down from 33 percent in July, while their disapproval figure had climbed up 7 points from 53 percent, tied for their worst performance in the nine-plus years since Pew has asked about House and Senate barons in both parties.

    http://congressionalconnection.nationaljournal.com/2010/10/60-percent-disapproval-of-gop.php

  • Carney

    So what do you advise? Pandering? W. pandered in every possible way, even as governor, well before the GOP brand (to hear handwringing whiners tell it) was tainted by GOP in general taking a harder line. And what did it get him? 40-60 wipeouts.

    Again, W. got a miserable 40 percent despite constantly speaking Spanish in public, appointing Hispanics to high office, and deliberately doing zilch about illegal immigration, affirmative action, anti-American / Mexican irredentist revisionist history being taught at all levels of education, the metastization of Spanish as an official language, illegals voting and getting welfare, etc.

  • sinz54

    The Dems will never end the flow of illegal aliens across the border. (Only the severe recession in America has slowed that flow recently.) On the Dems’ own blogs, they’re openly salivating at the thought of an endless flow of legalized illegal aliens voting for Dem candidates.

    This is a classic “Only Nixon Could Go To China” problem. The GOP will never let the Dems get access to a nearly inexhaustible supply of newly legalized Mexican-American voters. But a conservative Republican President, who really cracked down on the flow of illegal aliens and the employers who hire them, would have the political capital to institute real immigration reform and get the GOP base to swallow it. And by doing so, he would earn the gratitude of many Hispanics.

    We’ve seen those kinds of “Only Nixon Could Go To China” scenarios before.

    First, Nixon, a staunch anti-Communist, did achieve detente with Red China, whose effects continue to this day.

    Second, Reagan, a staunch anti-Communist, negotiated the first true strategic arms reduction agreement with Communist Russia.

    Third, Clinton, an “I feel your pain” Democrat, signed welfare reform into law which turned the program into one which got jobs for welfare recipients.

    It could happen with immigration reform too. What’s required is a “NON-compassionate conservative,” one who’s really tough on the issue, like Sarah Palin, to then make this innovative step.

  • moderategoper

    The Republican Party, if it loses the Hispanic vote will lose Texas and Arizona and many other states in 10 years. What’s even worse is that groups like the Republican Hispanic Association has been vitualy silent on issues that Hispancs care about. The only Hispanic conservative group that is actualy doing outreach is www.somosrepublicans.com. They are now the go to Hispanic GOP group for the Hispanic media. They also vocaly oppossed the Arizona law signed into law earlier this year. They opposed it while groups like the RNHA  remained almosr silent on the issue. Somos Republicans is a conservative group that gets it. If the GOP wants to make in roads it must being solutions to the table not “anti Hispanic” rhetoric.

    http://somosrepublicans.com/

  • armstp

    Carney,

    Pandering? What a negative term.

    No, how about just better representing the constituency. How about a GOP that just better represents the interests of hispanics? The GOP will have to change on many of the issues you bring-up or they will lose a lot of elections. Sorry, Carney, the world is changing and you cannot stop it.

    Sinz,

    Actually almost all the growth in the hispanic community comes from legal American hispanics. There are 48 million hispancis in the U.S. and only 8 million illegals. Actually, illegal immigration has dropped in recent years. If you have a problem with the growth in hispanics, as most of growth is from U.S. citizens, then you are a racist.

  • sinz54

    armstp: How about a GOP that just better represents the interests of hispanics?
    What are those interests, besides greatly increasing their numbers?

  • armstp

    Sinz,

    Hispanics have interests like every other group in this country. Better schools, better job opportunities, etc. etc. An ability to walk down the street without being asked for their ID. Maybe seeing a few more Republican leaders who are hispanic, etc. etc., etc.

  • Carney

    armstp, we’re constantly told to adopt a pose of learned helplessness. That foreigners can intrude into our land, en masse, and impose their will on us, and that we can do nothing to stop them, lest they and their kin be “offended”. First of all, that is outrageous. Second, it is false.

    The constantly predicted and hyped Latino wave in politics, etc. has never yet actually gone through the formality of really happening. As Gonklin glumly notes, they are not voting commensurately with their population level, even their LEGAL population level. We have a window of opportunity to make a difference.

    Far from being a force of nature like the tides, that even King Canute cannot stop, immigration, legal and illegal, is merely a policy choice, one that can be stopped and reversed as soon as policymakers wish to do so.

  • armstp

    Carney,

    Spoken like a true racist and very unAmerican.

    This country was built on immigration and “foreigners”. No different than past waves of immigrants to America; Irish, Germans, Chinese and now hispanics.

    There have always been people like you and you represent the worst of America.

  • pampl

    I answered the ‘Latino interests’ question in my post, quoting from the Pew poll Mr. Golinkin’s post is based on.
    “[T]he new survey shows that immigration does not rank as a top voting issue for Hispanics. Rather, they rank education, jobs and health care as their top three issues of concern for this year’s congressional campaign. Immigration ranks as the fifth most important issue for Latino registered voters and as the fourth most important issue for all Latinos. “

  • LauraNo

    Carney, “The constantly predicted and hyped Latino wave in politics, etc…” has always referred to the future. Why do you pretend otherwise? Also, it is not ‘foreigners who intrude into our land’, it is children of American citizens. Foreigner is no worse a name to call people than conservative is, you make it sound so vile. Why?

  • CD-Host

    We are all focused on 2010. But 2012 is going to be much younger, more liberal and more ethnic as an electorate. In answer to Carney’s question the difference between 40% and 20% of of 20% of the population is is 4%. A 4% shift in voter sentiment would be essentially decisive in an election. That’s the difference between 2000 and 2008 in terms of the election outcome.

    The only reason Hispanics aren’t solidly in the Democrats corner is their conservatism on social issues. That may be generational, where the Republicans see Hispanics get more numerous and more liberal on social issues all through the 2010s-2030s. So whether you want to call it pandering per Carney or representing per armstp; Republicans need to reach out.

    I agree with Carney that this is a choice the American people are making, but I do think they fall clearly on the pro-Hispanic side. I see no evidence of support for a large scale systematic attack on our Hispanic minority which is what would be required to really make a difference. Most people in the SouthWest view hispanic as: hard working, loyal, eager to assimilate….. Conservative whites are torn between: pro business, pro their own standard of living and their desire for a more homogeneous culture. The American people aren’t wrong in wanting to try and find a reasonable middle where we don’t have a fully open border but we aren’t terrorizing our domestic hispanic population to the point that they are profoundly alienated.

  • Watusie

    Carney: “W. got a miserable 40 percent”

    I guess you’ve managed to forget how very slim both of Bush’s “victories” were. To answer your question what did Hispanic voters ever do for George W. Bush: they made him president.

    “That foreigners can intrude into our land, en masse, and impose their will on us, and that we can do nothing to stop them…”

    But we aren’t talking about foreigners. We are talking about American citizens. And that is the crux of the problem – the GOP has bizarrely decided that the fastest growing group of voters in the country simply must be shown that they are second-class citizens. That is what is so unbelievably obnoxious about SB1070 – the fact that it trampled all over the rights of American citizens.

  • TerryF98

    Throw away the Black, Hispanic, smart people and Gay vote and what do you have left. Old white dumb people. Way to go GOP keep it up please.

  • CO Independent

    Meh. Working class whites are dumping the Dems, favoring Republicans by a 22 percentage point margin. Reagan Democrats are back, baby.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101006/ap_on_el_ge/us_ap_poll_working_class_whites

    Love these quotes, every one of which is precisely accurate:

    >> They try to make everybody think the economy is better, and it isn’t,” Jennifer Moore, 40, a school bus driver from Amherst, Va., said of Democrats. “Gas prices are going up, food is going up and people working for the minimum wage can’t make it.”

    >> “Democrats are more apt to mess with the middle class and take our money,” said Lawrence Ramsey, 56, a warehouse manager in Winston-Salem, N.C.

    >> “The country hasn’t come up the way it should have under Obama,” said Barbara Schwickrath, 64, a clothing store employee from Brooksville, Fla.

    Electoral carnage is one month away.

  • armstp

    CD,

    There is no “fully open border” or even a concept of a “fully open border”. Not even close. That is a false choice. It is about the current fairly closed standard versus closing the border even more to immigration. By historic standards getting into this country is a hell of alot more difficult than in the past. In the past, if you had a pulse you could get into the U.S., assuming you did not die on the ship on your way over. Today, it is very difficult process to get into the U.S.

    In 1907 a total of 1,285,349 persons entered the U.S. It was very easy to get into the U.S. back then.

    In fact, it was not until 1921 that the U.S. passed any real immigration law, when Congress passed the Emergency Quota Act, followed by the Immigration Act of 1924. Which actually were racist laws based almost entirely on race. Restricting jews and Italians amongst others from entering the country. It was wrong back then and is wrong today.

    The immigrant population of the United States remains an important economic force in the country. Always has been and always will be. It is what built this country. It is where you and me came from.

  • Carney

    armstp, I’ve called you no names, so your unprovoked rudeness says a lot about you and nothing about me.

    Sticking to the issues, contrary to your claim, our current, disastrous, policies on immigration and related issues can find no support or precedent in our successful past history.

    In the first place, prior immigrants who came here did so with the permission of our government. By contrast, one half of Mexican and Central American immigrants are illegal, and one-third of South Americans are.

    Secondly, the prior two immigrant waves crossed a physical and psychological ocean, with lengthy and expensive transportation and communication delays. This greatly helped in cutting them off from their mother country’s culture, and played a role in forcing them to assimilate. Many of today’s just cross a river, or a line of orange cones in an unpatrolled desert, or can return home with a short plane flight. Once here they can immerse themselves in TV and daily life that is little different from where they came from.

    Thirdly, prior immigrants arrived in a country confident in the superiority of its own culture, insisting on educating in English only, and determined to inculcate newcomers in gratitude for their opportunity and to revere our history, holidays, heroes, and our “civic religion”. Today, we have the precise opposite: pervasively squatting in our political, education, and cultural leadership positions are people who radicalize newcomers into anti-Americanism, seek to retain the use and spread of foreign language and culture, and coach a resentment of any effort to get newcomers to respect and adopt our ways. We now have routine and illegal tolerance of dual citizenship (despite the explicit requirements of the citizenship oath). THAT’s what’s un-American.

    Fourthly, the two great past waves of immigrants (the first being the Irish and Germans, the second being the southern and eastern Europeans) had, upon arrival, no claim on American territory and no historical grievances, real or imagined, against our nation. By contrast, both the Mexican, and, now, increasingly, the US school system at all levels, fans the flames of irredentism, of claiming that our Southwest is stolen land, rightfully Mexico’s. Now America, has joined the ranks of many nations all over the world that have the huge problem of an aggrieved minority ethnic group straddling a border with kinship and cultural ties to a neighboring power.

    Fifthly, and crucially, the two prior waves of immigration in effect STOPPED, the first on its own, the second thanks to a law passed in 1924. This was indispensable in their success. By ending the constant stream of newcomers from the Old Country, this ended the reinforcement of the Old Country’s language, ways, loyalties, and outlook. Few politicians support stopping immigration today, but given how much more different and difficult to assimilate this wave is compared to prior ones, and the damage already done by PC, it is more urgent than ever before.

  • armstp

    CO,

    Giberish…

    Those are funny quotes. A bunch of ignorant asses.

    > actually the economy is in a hell of alot better shape than it was a year or a year and half ago. Companies are no longer laying-off people at the same level and actually we have had a net hiring of people in the private sector. The economy is growing again. This has been the Republican recession.

    > taking money from the middle class is a bit of a joke, when people have had nothing but tax cuts under Obama and the tax rate is at the lowest level since the 1950s.

    > “the country hasn’t come up the way it should have under Obama”; not sure exactly what that means.

    I am not sure there is going to be as much electorial carnage as you think. You are setting the bar very high for Republicans. What happens when they do not swept and the Dems maintain control of both houses?

    Both the generic poll and the enthusasim gap has recently closed considerably in favor of the Dems. It is all about momentum at this point. Also get out the vote efforts will be very important, something the Dems do very well.

  • Slide

    CO Independent lets examine those quotes of which you said every one of which is precisely accurate:

    They try to make everybody think the economy is better, and it isn’t,” Jennifer Moore, 40, a school bus driver from Amherst, Va., said of Democrats. “Gas prices are going up, food is going up and people working for the minimum wage can’t make it.”

    Gas prices are going up? From where? Under Bush gas prices reached an astounding $4.88 in July of 2008. Currently gas prices sit at $2.65. Its also quite humorous that the author of this quote thinks the GOP would help with the minimum wage? LOL. Hey, some of them, like Joe Miller in Alaska, even think the minimum wage is unconstitutional. Of course that didn’t stop his wife from collecting.
    http://zfacts.com/p/35.html
    http://alaskadispatch.com/dispatches/politics/7050-joe-millers-wife-took-unemployment-benefits-after-working-for-him

    Democrats are more apt to mess with the middle class and take our money,” said Lawrence Ramsey, 56, a warehouse manager in Winston-Salem, N.C.
    Of course the reality is that the Obama adminstration has cut the taxes of the middle class. And if you want to see whether the middle class does better under Democratic or Republican leadership just look at the middle class income stagnation under Bush and the growth under Clinton.

    The country hasn’t come up the way it should have under Obama,” said Barbara Schwickrath, 64, a clothing store employee from Brooksville, Fla.

    Really? Well, when Obama took over the mess that Bush got us into we were LOSING > 750,000 jobs per MONTH. Yes, LOSING 750,000 per month. We have now had eight months of job growth and while the number of jobs added is not where we need it to be it is a huge improvement over what we inherited from Bush.

    So, if you think those three statements were “precisely accurate” then either you are not very knowledgeable or you are an intentional liar. Take your pick

  • armstp

    Carney,

    Sorry for calling a spade a spade. Your statements above are completely racist and, therefore, you are a racist.

    “That foreigners can intrude into our land, en masse, and impose their will on us, and that we can do nothing to stop them, lest they and their kin be “offended”. ”

    The discussion on this thread has been about hispanics in American. 90% of hispanics in America are U.S. citizens. No different than Italian Americans or Irish Americans or whatever kind of American you are. You seem to be offended by hispanics with your statement above. What is different with hispanics in this country than from any other group, other than their skin color?

    I love this line:

    “the prior two immigrant waves crossed a physical and psychological ocean, with lengthy and expensive transportation and communication delays. This greatly helped in cutting them off from their mother country’s culture, and played a role in forcing them to assimilate. ”

    That is a very funny line. There is no evidence of this statement other than from the White Power literature you are reading. In fact, all of your statements sound like they came from some kind of White Power book. All your statements are racist.

    You are so far out of reality and in left field.

    I get it, you just don’t like brown people. You think they are bad for America. Does this also apply to the Chinese, Indians, Africans, Koreans, etc. etc. etc. ?

    I think your “can’t assimilate” terminology is just a code word for, if they cannot be like me, then I do not want them in my country.

  • Slide

    That means that despite the Democrats’ total inability to govern

    Don’t make me post all the accomplishments of this administration’s first two years but they are substantial. Passing health care reform is a huge accomplishment. Now you may disagree with HCR but Presidents, Democratic and Republican, for generations have been unable to accomplish what Obama and the Democratic congress was able to.

    I find it humorous when republicans block and try to obstruct every single thing that Obama tries to do, complain about the Dems “inability to govern”. Gotta hand it to these right wingnuts….. chutzpa is the word that comes to mind.

  • Rob_654

    1) Neither side will stop the flow of Illegals – too many Americans companies LOVE to hire illegals and seriously – there are jobs that Americans simply won’t take – how many farm labor jobs are saying “Hey, we have to many Americans applying for the lettuce picking jobs?” – even during a recession American’s won’t take those types of jobs.

    2) Is it really any news that when a Party demonizes an entire race of people that they are shocked when those same people start to not support them any longer?

  • CO Independent

    >> Giberish…

    >> Those are funny quotes. A bunch of ignorant asses.

    Those “ignorant asses” are also called voters.

    In a subversive way I am kind of rooting for your side. I would like to see Dems keep a majority in Congress by 1 or 2 seats in each house. This would guarantee a complete rout in 2012. And Congress is not going to get anything done in 2010-2012. Obama’s Presidency lasted all of 18 months.

  • Slide

    CO Independent // Oct 6, 2010 at 11:48 am:

    In a subversive way I am kind of rooting for your side. I would like to see Dems keep a majority in Congress by 1 or 2 seats in each house. This would guarantee a complete rout in 2012. And Congress is not going to get anything done in 2010-2012.

    ahhhh…the patriotism, and love of country, is simply awe inspiring isn’t it?

  • medinnus

    How about working on a platform that does several things in tandem?

    First, lets do some investment in securing the border. Divert money from the War on Terror, as an open border is a much bigger practical threat to National Security than taliban wackos hunkered down in a cave in Pakistan.

    Second, lets do something about the flow of guns and money illegally into Mexico. There must be a way to restrict the illegal firearms trade without violating Second Amendment rights.

    Third, lets legalize grass. That’s a lot of the illegal profit motive right there.

    Fourth, lets look at tax policies, and see if there is any way to make Mexico more attractive for a lot of the outsourcing that’s happening to India and other places. If we can somehow build jobs there instead of say, Singapore, its better for both Mexico and the United States in the long run.

    Fifth, lets make it more difficult – by an order of magnitude – to send money from illegals to their homes in Mexico, or at least tax it at the same rate as the Federal and applicable State rates.

    Finally, lets provide a path to citizenship for any illegal currently in the country, that includes mandatory English proficiency and a four year tour of duty in the military.

  • Slide

    CO Independent // Oct 6, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Those “ignorant asses” are also called voters.

    you have found your demographic it seems

  • CD-Host

    armstp –

    I think you are objecting to the term open border because it is effectively more sealed than it used to be, its more annoying to get in. The fact is we have any millions of illegals. Carney is quite right, we could drastically reduce that number and have a closed border. That might mean things like dogs and land minds all along the border; going back to bounty hunters where people get a reward for bring illegals in; door to door searches. It can be done. There are countries, like the Soviet Union that maintained a genuinely tight border even with a population that wanted to migrate. The Axis powers during the war ran closed borders.

    Given the fact that our border barely works, open is not a terrible choice of words. Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration but I think fair. It wasn’t meant to be precise language.

  • CD-Host

    armstp –

    You can blame the Republicans for the recession in 2009. Every leading economist put the size of the stimulus needed between 1.5 and 2.5t. Much of the spending was not maximally effective, so Dems passed 1/3rd of the stimulus needed and got 1/3rds of the result needed. Dems had a huge majority in the house, 60 senators and the president.

    The Republicans suck but 2010 is on the Dems.

  • Alesandrial

    That means that despite the Democrats’ total inability to govern…
    You lost me in the first paragraph, Jeb.

  • armstp

    CD,

    You and Carney are equating the hispanic population in the U.S. and illegal immigration. That is wrong, ignorant and frankly racist. 90% of hispanics are U.S. citizens. It is like saying lets get rid of the hispanics in this country because I do not like the few that are jumping across the border. I have not been talking about illegal immigration, I have been talking about hispanics and immigration in general (go back and read the thread). That is the subject of this post. I have commented on Carney’s racist comments about hispanics in this country. I have also said that historically it is now more difficult to immigrat to this country than in the past. There is no “open border” for immigrants as you say and certainly not as open as it was in the past.

    I get it. You see immigration as bad. I do not, I think immigration is a good thing and a net positive for society and the economy. And actually corporate American thinks we have a shortage of immigrants in this country. They have lobbied for more H1B for the last 10 years.

    Now if you want to have a discussion about illegal immigration that is a different matter. I would debate you on the topic any day.

    As far as this economic downturn goes, it started in 2007. It is entirely to be blamed on Bush and the Republicans. The Dems and Obama are doing their best to clean up the mess, but it is a challenge given the Republicans drove the bus into the biggest ditch since the great depression. 2010 was a better year than 2009, which was a better year than 2008. We are recovering. I give the Dems and Obama a lot of credit for that.

  • Carney

    arsmtp, in response to my points, all you can do is chant “racist”. So you have no argument.

    Since you singled this point out, it’s patently ridiculous to deny the obvious, that it was much harder and more expensive for a poor Irishman or Czech in the 19th century to come to America, or communicate with his relatives back home, to be in daily touch with everything back home, than it is for a Latin American immigrant today. It’s even more silly to insist that acknowledging such realities is “racist”.

    What does that mean anyway? That reality is “racist”, that acknowledging it is taboo? Why?

    You asked what is different about the current wave compared to past waves, other than race. Re-read what I posted above. I listed 5 important ways this wave is different, or is being handled differently.

    And yes, race makes a difference too. As a practical matter, it matters if you are what Canadians call a “visible minority”. Certainly we can and do assimilate and Americanize people from anywhere, but being visibly different from the rest of the country, from our Founding Fathers, etc., creates a psychological barrier to Americanization that would otherwise not exist, and that makes the process slower and harder. Irish- and German- and Bulgarian- Americans spend little or no time calling for officials that “look like them”. But you yourself made the point that Hispanics want Hispanic Republican leaders in order to feel included. I’m not condemning this; it may well be perfectly understandable human nature. But that factor means it will take more time and effort than ever before to digest this very large and spicy meal we’ve wolfed down, and the first thing we need to do is to stop cramming down even more.

    You claim that 90% of Hispanics in America are citizens. (Source?) Watusie, you claim that we are talking about citizens. Both of you claim that therefore my bringing up illegal immigration is a red herring or distraction.

    But the whole point of Golinkin’s article, which you agree with, is that we must back off even on illegal immigration, lest we offend Hispanic citizens. In other words, you agree with my summation that the conventional wisdom is that “foreigners can intrude into our land, en masse, and impose their will on us, and that we can do nothing to stop them.”

    The disagreement then is not what the Golinkin article says, not what the conventional wisdom is, but that you AGREE with that conventional wisdom, both on a practical and a moral level, and I do not. Fine, but why object so vehemently to my spelling out what that conventional wisdom is?

    In any event, I say it is outrageous for any foreigner, let alone huge numbers of them, to come or stay here KNOWING they are doing so against the will of the American people and against US law. Any country that does not insist on foreigners respecting its borders, sovereignty, territorial integrity, and laws is mad or suicidal.

  • Slide

    Why do I feel like I need to take a shower after reading Carney’s racist harangue.

  • armstp

    Carney,

    It is hardly worth pointing out the racism in your statements. I will let the readers decide for themselves.

    A couple of points:

    > what does assimilate mean?
    > do you have a check list for assimilation? does that require everyone to be the same?
    > why is it important to assimilate as you say?
    > why does any of this only apply to hispanics?
    > and now in your latest post you say that being “visibly different” is somehow important? different from our Founding Fathers? If that is not a racist statement I do not know what is? Does that mean that only blond hair and the blue eyed will be successful in America?

    You just keep putting your foot further and further into your mouth. And you keep confusing illegal immigration and all hispanics.

    Carney it is a free country. That is what is great about America. You can be a racist if you want to be?

    But, also this country says:

    “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”
    - Engrved on Statue of Liberty”

  • JoeDogs

    “Morally, I say it is outrageous that for any foreigner, let alone huge numbers of them, to come or stay here KNOWING they are doing so against the will of the American (Mexican) people and against US (Mexican) law. Any country that does not insist on foreigners respecting its borders, sovereignty, territorial integrity, and laws is mad or suicidal.”

    Carney, I find your comment strangely ironic as I imagine my ancestors saying the same thing in 1835 as the “settlers” of Texas invaded sovereign Mexico.

  • easton

    That means that despite the Democrats’ total inability to govern

    Too funny because it is patently idiotic, if Democrats could not govern Republicans would have been happy since the ACA would not have passed, nor financial reform, nor the Stimulus. And as to the metrics, I don’t recall Republicans claiming Reagan couldn’t govern when unemployment spiked to 10.6% along with the deficit, to them it was morning in America.
    Obviously Reagan could govern because he passed his legislative agenda, so why be such a wanker Jeb and not give credit where it is due.

    And yes, a depression was averted, the economy is on the mend, jobs are being created. Warren Buffet thinks that Obama is doing a fine job and I would take his word over Jeb anyday.

  • Danvil

    Remember that Hispanics aren’t a uniform monolith. It’s time to attract Hispanics by the wonder of the Free Enterprise system and low taxes and stop trying to use race and ethnicity like the Dems do.
    Recognize that La Raza & Maldef are only creations of the Ford Foundation and have ZERO grass roots support.

    Build the DANG FENCE and build it high and force the illegals to self deport, by making it impossible for them to use SS cards and drivers licenses. Time to use some technology to “HARDEN” our forms of ID. Put a chip in these things, like they have in their credit cards in much of Euope – making them impossible to steal and use.

    Stop the racial pandering. Join the party of prosperity.

  • armstp

    Carney,

    The fact that you even doubt that about 80-90% of hispanics in this country are legal U.S. citizens says it all. You look at all hispanics as illegals. That is a racist thing to do.

    Here are some sources for you to educate yourself with.

    U.S. Census Bureau says there are 46.8 million hispanics in the U.S.

    http://www.factfinder.census.gov/servlet/IPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-geo_id=NBSP&-qr_name=ACS_2008_1YR_G00_S0201&-qr_name=ACS_2008_1YR_G00_S0201PR&-qr_name=ACS_2008_1YR_G00_S0201T&-qr_name=ACS_2008_1YR_G00_S0201TPR&-ds_name=ACS_2008_1YR_G00_&-reg=ACS_2008_1YR_G00_S0201:400;ACS_2008_1YR_G00_S0201PR:400;ACS_2008_1YR_G00_S0201T:400;ACS_2008_1YR_G00_S0201TPR:400&-_lang=en&-redoLog=false&-format=

    There are 11 million illegals in the U.S. (which is actually down from the 12.5 milion estimated in 2007) of which 9.8 million are hispanic. And only 6.8 million of this 9.8 million are from Mexico.

    Now I assume that the 9.8 million illegal hispanics are not included in the census numbers, as I think the last thing the illegal wants to do is to give information to the government, so there are likely actually likely 56.6 million (46.8 mm legal + 9.8 mm illegal) hispanics in America.

    9.8 million divided by 56.6 million = 17.3%, so I exaggerated a little. 83% of hispanics are legal U.S. citizens.

    Or only 12% of hispanics in America are illegals from Mexico.

    See this Pew study to confirm the illegal numbers.

    http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/44.pdf

  • armstp

    Danvil,

    Your party of prosperity has not brought us much prosperty in modern times.

    In fact, since WWII the stock market, GDP growth and a reduction in Debt/GDP has consistently performed better under Democratic adminstrations.

    http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/21/markets/election_demsvreps/

    http://www.slate.com/id/2199810/

    http://www.eriposte.com/economy/other/demovsrep.htm

  • cdorsen

    Illegal immigration is a danger to this country. It is a danger due to: terrorist crossing from the the southern border, guns and drug violence that follow illegal immigration, our economy and jobs market faltering, and our social systems including education systems (specifically certain states) being pushed to the brink. Admitting that is not racist. Refusing to back down on the issue less we hurt someone’s feelings is tantamount to appeasement at our detriment. Leaders don’t appease potential dangers in hopes of future elections. Leaders face those problems head on for the good of those they lead.

    Solving the problem won’t be simple, overnight, or easy. But, cowering to demands for amnesty or burying your head in the sand is just weak.

  • Nanotek

    “The poll numbers make it clear that Hispanic voters really dislike the Republican Party.” — who could have seen that coming? lol

    “Any country that does not insist on foreigners respecting its borders, sovereignty, territorial integrity, and laws is mad or suicidal.” — So are we mad or suicidal now that foreign corporations are reportedly heavily funding the “US” Chamber of Commerce, which is pouring millions into political ads to defeat Congressmen/women and Senators who oppose “free trade”?

  • armstp

    cdorsen,

    We can debate whether illegal immigration is bad for the country or not. I can tell you there are certainly a lot of U.S. businesses that don’t think it is bad.

    However, making the kinds of statements that are being made on this thread about hispanics in general is racist. Hispanics are no different than you and me and clamining otherwise is racist.

    By the way, can you give me one example of a terrorist crossing the southern border? The rest of your statements about the economy, jobs, crime and social systems are also false. The statistics and facts do not bare these statements out.

  • pampl

    cdorsen: illegal immigration is a scapegoat for problems. The supposed violence crossing from the border is entirely mythological save one incidence of drug runners killing drug runners on an empty highway. If you’re scared of that then you’re a complete coward. The guns are flowing out from our country, not flowing in, and there’s no evidence of any educational system being pushed to the brink by illegal immigrants. Our economy is faltering due to decades of erroneous risk valuation in the financial industry, not illegal immigrants. The thing is that believing in these smokescreens requires you to be either a) completely ignorant on the issues or b) a racist l0oking to blame brown people. A lot of people just skip a) and assume b), which IMO is unfair, but it’s understandable they’d assume a basic level of competence on the part of the person they’re arguing with.

  • Claude

    armstp,

    You’re being reckless with the statistics. For one thing, you’re confusing “legal” with “citizen.” The census link you provided shows 29.1 million hispanics born in the U.S. with 5.1 million foreign-born naturalized citizens.

    Second, you’re making a bad assumption that the census count doesn’t include any illegal immigrants. The Census Bureau makes a serious effort to count every resident, legal or not. There’s a big public education campaign every time to tell people that census responses won’t be shared with ICE, the IRS, or any other law enforcement agency.

  • PracticalGirl

    armstp and Carney:

    I’m not up to discussing illegals today, and so I wade into this gingerly…Take care you don’t hit a lady while you slug it out, please :)

    Assimilation…That word is heavy with connotation and freaks out the liberal in me. The first-generation American in me, though? I see it, I benefitted from it. Pew Hispanic did a broad, comprehensive study of Hispanics in America several years ago. I don’t have the link, but one of the stats that sticks in my mind to this day:

    Within 3 generations, 75% (it might have been closer to 70%) of Hispanics are fluent in English. I remember thinking (and I personalized it to my situation, of course) “Sad. That would mean that my son would be the first generation in my family to truly be able to compete for good jobs in the US, had my family followed this trend”. Instead, because my father decided that assimilation into the culture of America (especially fluency in English) was important, he learned the language of his adopted country, went to college and got a good job and made sure his daughters had the same priorities. We didn’t lose the culture of the “home” country, only got the best of both worlds.

    We need to be very careful in discusssing “assimilation”, but we should also be real about what parts of it hamper those who refuse, shouldn’t we? I’m not an “English-only” freak, but shouldn’t we at least discuss the effects of generations who “benefit” from ESL programs etc that allow them to exit school without English proficiency in a society where the best jobs require it?

    Slug away…But it’s a thought.

  • pampl

    “Within 3 generations, 75% (it might have been closer to 70%) of Hispanics are fluent in English”
    Just a correction: that’s 72% of Hispanics are ONLY fluent in English. About 92% of second generation Hispanic immigrants are fluent in English. Also worth noting:
    “In 1990, 64 percent of third-generation Mexican-American children spoke only English at home. In 2000, the equivalent figure had risen to 71 percent.”
    http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?ID=282

  • CD-Host

    armstp –

    I wish you would stop assuming what I’m saying, read and quote. I most certainly am not equating illegals to hispanics. My post addressed illegals.

    As for my opinions about immigration I haven’t given them in this thread. Stop trying to read my mind and read my words.

  • Carney

    armstp, since you, Golinkin, and the conventional narrative all presume that Hispanic citizens, in general, strongly support illegal immigration, and are deeply offended to the point of alienation by GOP efforts to crack down on it, why are you so furiously annoyed by what you perceive as my equating illegal immigrants and Hispanic citizens?

    According to you, both groups agree that illegal immigration should be ignored or amnestied, yes? According to you, both groups should be permitted to vote in US elections, either because taking care to ensure a voter is a citizen is “racist”, or because we should give citizenship to illegals, right?

    So, what, practically speaking, is the difference between illegals and citizens?

    As for assimilation, I would define it as something roughly like what follows: Becoming an American in behavior, thought, and loyalty. Learning and using English as one’s primary language. Thinking and feeling of America as one’s own country/family/team, as “us” and “we”. Having more interest in American culture and news than in that of the mother country. Being or becoming a citizen. Having a default setting of being on America’s side (in relatively trivial things like sports contests, or in serious matters like international disputes). Knowing and having a deep affection, admiration and respect for America and its history/heritage/heroes and being moved by traditional symbols and rituals of patriotism, while having far less or none at all anymore for those of the mother country. And so on.

    As for why it is important, good Lord. Because America is not or should not be just a geographical expression and a body of laws, where people come here to make money, live in their own isolated subcultures, and demand rights and benefits. Because it’s a nation, with a real culture and outlook and way of life, that’s worthwhile and should be preserved. Because it’s OUR nation.

    I didn’t say that only whites can be successful in America. What I said was that in general it is easier for white newcomers to assimilate and Americanize than it is for non-whites. Given the great effort it took (including a shutdown of immigration) to assimilate white ethnic groups, it will take even more effort to do so for this new wave.

    I didn’t say assimilation applies only to Hispanics. But Hispanics are the topic of the article above and are by far the dominant group in both the legal and illegal immigrant populations, and present some of the thorniest assimilation challenges we’ve yet come across as a nation. Millions of them, thank God, have assimilated very well, but to a great degree that’s been in spite of our system and policies rather than because of it – and millions have not assimilated. We need to do a lot better, or we’ll have very serious trouble in a Balkanized future.

    It’s OK to acknowledge reality. Really. Bona fide liberals like have been talking about this too. Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr. wrote “The Disuniting of America: Reflections on a Multicultural Society” back in 1991. You just need to stop your mind snapping shut and shouting “RACISM” whenever you stray away from leftist pieties.

  • Carney

    By the way, here’s my backing for my claim that one third of South American immigrants are illegal, and that one half of Mexican and Central American immigrants are illegal:

    http://www.cis.org/immigrants_profile_2007

    This study relies on Census Bureau data from March 2007.

  • armstp

    Claude,

    Who care if nationalized or hispanic born? They are all legal U.S. citizens. That does not change the fact that 83% of hispanics in America are legal U.S. citizens. By even suggesting we separate the two you are saying that they are not equal or should be looked upon different if they legally immigrated here.

    I would say the census count does not at all include many illegals. That is a good assumption. Even if you say half are included in the census that does not change the point that about 80% of hispanics in America are legal U.S. citizens.

    PracticalGirl,

    I remember reading a study from Pew Hipanic like a year or two. I think a hispanic advocate also wrote a editorial in the WSJ abou the survey. The conclusion of the survey was that hispanics assimilate into the U.S was no different than any other ethnic immigrant group througout history. For example, by the third generation most hispanics don’t even know how to speak spanish anymore.