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	<title>Comments on: Herbal Remedies Need Real Scrutiny</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: Conservative author David Frum: &#34;Repeal DSHEA&#34; [Terra Sigillata] &#124; Medical News</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/herbal-remedies-need-real-scrutiny/comment-page-1#comment-74293</link>
		<dc:creator>Conservative author David Frum: &#34;Repeal DSHEA&#34; [Terra Sigillata] &#124; Medical News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 10:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16503#comment-74293</guid>
		<description>[...] Frum chose this week to write, &#8220;Herbal remedies need real scrutiny,&#8221; at his FrumForum and the post was subsequently published as a special commentary at CNN.com. The latter version has [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Frum chose this week to write, &#8220;Herbal remedies need real scrutiny,&#8221; at his FrumForum and the post was subsequently published as a special commentary at CNN.com. The latter version has [...]</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/herbal-remedies-need-real-scrutiny/comment-page-1#comment-74145</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16503#comment-74145</guid>
		<description>PracticalGirl:  &lt;blockquote&gt; Most that I know only want to “beleive” in effectiveness and get very offended when anybody suggests real, scientific measurement of that success. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
It may surprise both fans and foes of alternative medicine that scientists HAVE gotten around to testing many of these remedies in rats, and sometimes even in clinical trials in humans.

www.Pubmed.com is a great resource for all the scientific papers.

MedlinePlus is a great resource to summarize what&#039;s known about the most popular supplements.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/herb_All.html

And stay away from NCCAM:  That&#039;s Tom Harkin&#039;s baby, and I fear they know which side their bread is buttered on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PracticalGirl:<br />
<blockquote> Most that I know only want to “beleive” in effectiveness and get very offended when anybody suggests real, scientific measurement of that success. </p></blockquote>
<p>It may surprise both fans and foes of alternative medicine that scientists HAVE gotten around to testing many of these remedies in rats, and sometimes even in clinical trials in humans.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.Pubmed.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.Pubmed.com</a> is a great resource for all the scientific papers.</p>
<p>MedlinePlus is a great resource to summarize what&#8217;s known about the most popular supplements.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/herb_All.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/herb_All.html</a></p>
<p>And stay away from NCCAM:  That&#8217;s Tom Harkin&#8217;s baby, and I fear they know which side their bread is buttered on.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/herbal-remedies-need-real-scrutiny/comment-page-1#comment-74141</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16503#comment-74141</guid>
		<description>A big step backward for scientific medicine,
and a big step forward for medical quackery, 
came about when Dem Sen. Tom Harkin forced the NIH to open up a National Center of Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM), to look into all these alternative remedies.

Harkin had been using bee pollen for his allergies and swore by it.  And he just wanted all us citizens to benefit from these amazing cure-alls.

&quot;The product he used was Aller Bee-Gone, a secret-mix concoction which included more than just bee pollen hawked by Royden Brown of Arizona. Not long after converting Harkin to his bee pollen cure, Brown&#039;s CC Pollen Company was fined $200,000 by the Federal Trade Commission for falsely claiming that his bee pollen products could cause consumers to lose weight, alleviate permanently their allergy symptoms, and reverse the aging process.&quot;

http://www.ncahf.org/articles/a-b/beepollen.html

However, the NIH hasn&#039;t allowed itself to be corrupted by such as Harkin.  MedlinePlus tries to present unbiased information about these remedies:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/herb_All.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A big step backward for scientific medicine,<br />
and a big step forward for medical quackery,<br />
came about when Dem Sen. Tom Harkin forced the NIH to open up a National Center of Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM), to look into all these alternative remedies.</p>
<p>Harkin had been using bee pollen for his allergies and swore by it.  And he just wanted all us citizens to benefit from these amazing cure-alls.</p>
<p>&#8220;The product he used was Aller Bee-Gone, a secret-mix concoction which included more than just bee pollen hawked by Royden Brown of Arizona. Not long after converting Harkin to his bee pollen cure, Brown&#8217;s CC Pollen Company was fined $200,000 by the Federal Trade Commission for falsely claiming that his bee pollen products could cause consumers to lose weight, alleviate permanently their allergy symptoms, and reverse the aging process.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ncahf.org/articles/a-b/beepollen.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncahf.org/articles/a-b/beepollen.html</a></p>
<p>However, the NIH hasn&#8217;t allowed itself to be corrupted by such as Harkin.  MedlinePlus tries to present unbiased information about these remedies:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/herb_All.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/herb_All.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Carney</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/herbal-remedies-need-real-scrutiny/comment-page-1#comment-73912</link>
		<dc:creator>Carney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16503#comment-73912</guid>
		<description>BarryS, those disclaimers are forced on drugmakers by the FDA, regardless of how freakishly rare those symptoms are.   

As for the suckers who use &quot;alternative&quot; methods and think that the placebo effect or personal anecdotes refute or substitute for proper, double-blind studies in peer-reviewed journals edited by credentialed experts who understand and accept the scientific method, I pity you, and ask you to realize that those of who do understand science and critical thinking and the rules of evidence are not all &quot;paid off&quot; by eeeevil drug makers.  Your conspiratorial thinking just puts you further out on the kooky fringe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BarryS, those disclaimers are forced on drugmakers by the FDA, regardless of how freakishly rare those symptoms are.   </p>
<p>As for the suckers who use &#8220;alternative&#8221; methods and think that the placebo effect or personal anecdotes refute or substitute for proper, double-blind studies in peer-reviewed journals edited by credentialed experts who understand and accept the scientific method, I pity you, and ask you to realize that those of who do understand science and critical thinking and the rules of evidence are not all &#8220;paid off&#8221; by eeeevil drug makers.  Your conspiratorial thinking just puts you further out on the kooky fringe.</p>
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		<title>By: BarryS</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/herbal-remedies-need-real-scrutiny/comment-page-1#comment-73845</link>
		<dc:creator>BarryS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16503#comment-73845</guid>
		<description>I watch the commercials for pills and potions on the Tv. I am amazed at the possible serious side effects of a pill that is supposed to be curing a relatively benign non life threatening problem.

Why would I wish to risk a dozen possible side effects including death to cure my restless legs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I watch the commercials for pills and potions on the Tv. I am amazed at the possible serious side effects of a pill that is supposed to be curing a relatively benign non life threatening problem.</p>
<p>Why would I wish to risk a dozen possible side effects including death to cure my restless legs?</p>
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		<title>By: PracticalGirl</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/herbal-remedies-need-real-scrutiny/comment-page-1#comment-73836</link>
		<dc:creator>PracticalGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16503#comment-73836</guid>
		<description>Sorry about some of the repeats for the above post...

A MI GOPER  moment:

MODERATOR: PLEASE HIRE AN EDITOR TO CLEAN UP PRACTICAL GIRL&#039;S POSTS, AS SHE TENDS TO WRITE THEM WHILE ON CONFERENCE CALLS, AND WHILE SHE CAN PASTE, SHE CANNOT SEEM TO CUT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about some of the repeats for the above post&#8230;</p>
<p>A MI GOPER  moment:</p>
<p>MODERATOR: PLEASE HIRE AN EDITOR TO CLEAN UP PRACTICAL GIRL&#8217;S POSTS, AS SHE TENDS TO WRITE THEM WHILE ON CONFERENCE CALLS, AND WHILE SHE CAN PASTE, SHE CANNOT SEEM TO CUT.</p>
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		<title>By: PracticalGirl</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/herbal-remedies-need-real-scrutiny/comment-page-1#comment-73833</link>
		<dc:creator>PracticalGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16503#comment-73833</guid>
		<description>David, you stepped in the &quot;yak dung&quot; with this one...I truly believe that the strident &quot;natural-only&quot; crowd is alternative medicine&#039;s biggest problem in this country.  Most that I know only want to &quot;beleive&quot; in effectiveness and get very offended when anybody suggests real, scientific measurement of that success.

I support some alternative therapies, and personally use a combo of natural products (recommended by my MD) to combat a degenerative inner ear issue for which there is no real medical treatment aside from radical surgery. But  I also think that the strident &quot;natural-only&quot; crowd is alternative medicine&#039;s biggest problem in this country.  Why, if it all works so well, does this crowd fight any attempt to measure success?  For some, it is easier just to &quot;believe&quot;.

Drug companies and marketers certainly have a reason to fear some of these treatments, should they ever be tested in a rigorous way.  But since they&#039;ve also made it possible for people to live with AIDS and never think twice about polio, I think the industry is safe from extinction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, you stepped in the &#8220;yak dung&#8221; with this one&#8230;I truly believe that the strident &#8220;natural-only&#8221; crowd is alternative medicine&#8217;s biggest problem in this country.  Most that I know only want to &#8220;beleive&#8221; in effectiveness and get very offended when anybody suggests real, scientific measurement of that success.</p>
<p>I support some alternative therapies, and personally use a combo of natural products (recommended by my MD) to combat a degenerative inner ear issue for which there is no real medical treatment aside from radical surgery. But  I also think that the strident &#8220;natural-only&#8221; crowd is alternative medicine&#8217;s biggest problem in this country.  Why, if it all works so well, does this crowd fight any attempt to measure success?  For some, it is easier just to &#8220;believe&#8221;.</p>
<p>Drug companies and marketers certainly have a reason to fear some of these treatments, should they ever be tested in a rigorous way.  But since they&#8217;ve also made it possible for people to live with AIDS and never think twice about polio, I think the industry is safe from extinction.</p>
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		<title>By: cm</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/herbal-remedies-need-real-scrutiny/comment-page-1#comment-73785</link>
		<dc:creator>cm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16503#comment-73785</guid>
		<description>To quote you &quot; But the fact is that most of us are not well positioned to make intelligent health choices. If we try to play our own doctor, we are going to expose our health — and our money — to risk and exploitation.
As individuals, we have trouble distinguishing between anecdotes: “My neighbor took zinc for her cold and she said it really helped,” and data: Most colds last four days, so you could smoke yak-dung cigarettes on day three and feel better on day four.
We are poor balancers of risk: Look at the rising number of Americans who resist taking vaccines because of astronomically remote chances that something might go wrong.
We are vulnerable to placebos:&quot; blah blah blah.....

HOW OFFENSIVE!

Since when do you decide with broad sweeping &quot;authority&quot; that most Americans who use alternatives are IDIOTS?
I have been using Herbal remedies and alternative treatments for years. I do my homework. It is MY responsibility!  It is also MY RESPONSIBILITY to decide if I want to take medicines from a Pharmaceutical company! And I DON&#039;T!
This is an obvious article from somebody who MUST have stock in Merck, Phizer and the likes.....
The poisoners of the American Public who blindly go like sheep to the slaughter to the local pharmacy and ignore the DEATH warnings.

I am not against the medical community, nor the alternative .... I am ALL FOR INFORMED PERSONAL DECISIONS and NOT having somebody else&#039;s well meaning will imposed upon me or my children.

Pretty soon, I will have no choice if stupid, illinformed artilces like this keep circulating.

I have to go and smoke my &quot;yak dung&quot; now, so I can get over my hot flashes.
DUH!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To quote you &#8221; But the fact is that most of us are not well positioned to make intelligent health choices. If we try to play our own doctor, we are going to expose our health — and our money — to risk and exploitation.<br />
As individuals, we have trouble distinguishing between anecdotes: “My neighbor took zinc for her cold and she said it really helped,” and data: Most colds last four days, so you could smoke yak-dung cigarettes on day three and feel better on day four.<br />
We are poor balancers of risk: Look at the rising number of Americans who resist taking vaccines because of astronomically remote chances that something might go wrong.<br />
We are vulnerable to placebos:&#8221; blah blah blah&#8230;..</p>
<p>HOW OFFENSIVE!</p>
<p>Since when do you decide with broad sweeping &#8220;authority&#8221; that most Americans who use alternatives are IDIOTS?<br />
I have been using Herbal remedies and alternative treatments for years. I do my homework. It is MY responsibility!  It is also MY RESPONSIBILITY to decide if I want to take medicines from a Pharmaceutical company! And I DON&#8217;T!<br />
This is an obvious article from somebody who MUST have stock in Merck, Phizer and the likes&#8230;..<br />
The poisoners of the American Public who blindly go like sheep to the slaughter to the local pharmacy and ignore the DEATH warnings.</p>
<p>I am not against the medical community, nor the alternative &#8230;. I am ALL FOR INFORMED PERSONAL DECISIONS and NOT having somebody else&#8217;s well meaning will imposed upon me or my children.</p>
<p>Pretty soon, I will have no choice if stupid, illinformed artilces like this keep circulating.</p>
<p>I have to go and smoke my &#8220;yak dung&#8221; now, so I can get over my hot flashes.<br />
DUH!</p>
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		<title>By: joemarier</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/herbal-remedies-need-real-scrutiny/comment-page-1#comment-73763</link>
		<dc:creator>joemarier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16503#comment-73763</guid>
		<description>Test &#039;em for safety, maybe.  Effectiveness? Probably not; I think it&#039;d be a waste of resources to put, say, whole grain cereals through double-blind placebo tests if they want to put a heart logo on the box (What would you use for the placebo?).  There are all kinds of other cases where nutritional supplements may save money; which is more expensive, joint health supplements, or physical therapy? Valerian, or prescription insomnia medications? That kind of thing.

Also, are nutritional supplements even considered part of health spending? I mean, you can&#039;t buy nutritional supplements with FSA/HSA dollars.  And they&#039;re far less expensive than MRIs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Test &#8216;em for safety, maybe.  Effectiveness? Probably not; I think it&#8217;d be a waste of resources to put, say, whole grain cereals through double-blind placebo tests if they want to put a heart logo on the box (What would you use for the placebo?).  There are all kinds of other cases where nutritional supplements may save money; which is more expensive, joint health supplements, or physical therapy? Valerian, or prescription insomnia medications? That kind of thing.</p>
<p>Also, are nutritional supplements even considered part of health spending? I mean, you can&#8217;t buy nutritional supplements with FSA/HSA dollars.  And they&#8217;re far less expensive than MRIs.</p>
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		<title>By: Carney</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/herbal-remedies-need-real-scrutiny/comment-page-1#comment-73749</link>
		<dc:creator>Carney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16503#comment-73749</guid>
		<description>This was an outstanding article.  I highly recommend QuackWatch.org as a website to get more information about pseudo-science and snake-oil salesmen, and the suckers, cranks, and victims bamboozled by them.

Crystals, magnets, homeopathy, anti-vaccination, chelation therapy, colloidal silver, herbal remedies, &quot;Traditional Chinese medicine&quot;, holistic medicine, healing touch, copper bracelets, pressure points, auras, chiropractic, Scientology, Christian Science, etc etc.    Our nation is awash in quackery, kookery, flim-flammery, and fraud, and the anti-science ignorance and paranoia necessary for it to flourish in.

We need to forcefully crack down on the hucksters and educate the next generation in sound science and critical thinking skills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was an outstanding article.  I highly recommend QuackWatch.org as a website to get more information about pseudo-science and snake-oil salesmen, and the suckers, cranks, and victims bamboozled by them.</p>
<p>Crystals, magnets, homeopathy, anti-vaccination, chelation therapy, colloidal silver, herbal remedies, &#8220;Traditional Chinese medicine&#8221;, holistic medicine, healing touch, copper bracelets, pressure points, auras, chiropractic, Scientology, Christian Science, etc etc.    Our nation is awash in quackery, kookery, flim-flammery, and fraud, and the anti-science ignorance and paranoia necessary for it to flourish in.</p>
<p>We need to forcefully crack down on the hucksters and educate the next generation in sound science and critical thinking skills.</p>
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