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	<title>Comments on: Healthcare Must be Affordable</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: SFTor1</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/healthcare-must-be-affordable/comment-page-2#comment-65407</link>
		<dc:creator>SFTor1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 05:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12429#comment-65407</guid>
		<description>Here is something I don&#039;t understand about Sinz&#039;s argument: &quot;That’s because the United States is a much more diverse nation than any of the European ones you want to cite as role models.&quot; 

So diversity makes it harder to deliver health care? How?

As far as whether I would like to see a single-payer system: of course. I have said so on several occasions. I believe it is impractical to nibble around the edges on this one. Private insurance companies can have a role in selling supplemental insurance to those who want it, but they are, in general, not needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is something I don&#8217;t understand about Sinz&#8217;s argument: &#8220;That’s because the United States is a much more diverse nation than any of the European ones you want to cite as role models.&#8221; </p>
<p>So diversity makes it harder to deliver health care? How?</p>
<p>As far as whether I would like to see a single-payer system: of course. I have said so on several occasions. I believe it is impractical to nibble around the edges on this one. Private insurance companies can have a role in selling supplemental insurance to those who want it, but they are, in general, not needed.</p>
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		<title>By: SpartacusIsNotDead</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/healthcare-must-be-affordable/comment-page-2#comment-65404</link>
		<dc:creator>SpartacusIsNotDead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 05:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12429#comment-65404</guid>
		<description>Jim suggests that socialized medicine tramples on the &quot;spirit&quot; of the Constitution. 

I&#039;m not sure what specific parts of the Constitution you are referring to.  Something either violates the Constitution or it does not.  And, I don&#039;t know if you&#039;re included in this group, but for strict constructionists there is no &quot;spirit&quot; of the Constitution to trample.  Only the literal words of the constitution matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim suggests that socialized medicine tramples on the &#8220;spirit&#8221; of the Constitution. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what specific parts of the Constitution you are referring to.  Something either violates the Constitution or it does not.  And, I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;re included in this group, but for strict constructionists there is no &#8220;spirit&#8221; of the Constitution to trample.  Only the literal words of the constitution matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/healthcare-must-be-affordable/comment-page-2#comment-65382</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12429#comment-65382</guid>
		<description>Sinz&#039;s assessment of what the system must NOT be (viewed from the perspective of a committed conservative) is spot on.  Of course, if the Dems have the votes, they can pass anything that they want.  That still doesn&#039;t mean that hardcore socialized medicine doesn&#039;t trample on the spirit of the Constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinz&#8217;s assessment of what the system must NOT be (viewed from the perspective of a committed conservative) is spot on.  Of course, if the Dems have the votes, they can pass anything that they want.  That still doesn&#8217;t mean that hardcore socialized medicine doesn&#8217;t trample on the spirit of the Constitution.</p>
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		<title>By: anniemargret</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/healthcare-must-be-affordable/comment-page-2#comment-65376</link>
		<dc:creator>anniemargret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12429#comment-65376</guid>
		<description>sinz54:   &quot;The doctors and nurses told me that at least 55% of their work load involves such hand-written record-keeping. They spend more time filling out loose-leaf notebooks than they do treating patients.
A completely automated “paperless” hospital could dramatically improve the productivity of the medical staff...&quot;

Before I do what I do now, I was a medical transcriptionist, both clinical and hospital-based, for almost a decade.   One of the theories at that time, was that doctors would no longer need to use real live human beings to transcribe operations and patient summary reports; that a new transcribing system would &#039;auto-transcribe&#039; the doctor&#039;s dictations.  Wrong.  If you have every listened to a doctor&#039;s dictation, you would know immediately how difficult it is to transcribe the human voice particularly when that voice is using medical terminology and new PDR standards of generic/non-general pharmaceuticals.   A real live human being is always needed to transcribe, and verify...over and over again to make sure the dictation is accurate.  A slip of the wrong medical term could cause immense problems.  

Some automation is necessary, but this is an area I hope and believe will remain human-connected.  There are virtual printoffs, but the basic need remains a real person.  

&quot;....it must NOT force patients into clinic-type atmospheres with long waits to see specialists or get MRIs...&quot;  

An MRI is often given only in time of great need, not as a routine service.  I had a very dizzy spell last year out of the blue, so bad that I was literally hugging the wall when I got home for fear of falling.  The ER did an immediate MRI on my brain to rule out an aneurysm or other brain abnormality; luckily it was not a brain problem.   

However, long waits are another matter.  My sister was dx&#039;d last year with the possibility of CA in her endocrine glands, and not even her own internist could get her to see an endrocinologist for almost 3 months....she had to wait that long.  Obviously it was a fearful time.  It happens more often than you think right here in the USA.   It will depend more often on the quantity of that specialist in the region you live.  Obviously, if you live in or near a major city, your chances are better, but many people must wait inordinate amount of time to see specialists, EVEN IF, they are facing serious medical issues.  

And I agree with sparticusisnotdead....  I don&#039;t much care a whit what something is called. It is the system it delivers.   If France or other countries have developed a better serviced and less costly manner of delivering than here, then the word &#039;socialism&#039; becomes less of a dirty word.   Perhaps it should be rephrased....pragmatism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sinz54:   &#8220;The doctors and nurses told me that at least 55% of their work load involves such hand-written record-keeping. They spend more time filling out loose-leaf notebooks than they do treating patients.<br />
A completely automated “paperless” hospital could dramatically improve the productivity of the medical staff&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Before I do what I do now, I was a medical transcriptionist, both clinical and hospital-based, for almost a decade.   One of the theories at that time, was that doctors would no longer need to use real live human beings to transcribe operations and patient summary reports; that a new transcribing system would &#8216;auto-transcribe&#8217; the doctor&#8217;s dictations.  Wrong.  If you have every listened to a doctor&#8217;s dictation, you would know immediately how difficult it is to transcribe the human voice particularly when that voice is using medical terminology and new PDR standards of generic/non-general pharmaceuticals.   A real live human being is always needed to transcribe, and verify&#8230;over and over again to make sure the dictation is accurate.  A slip of the wrong medical term could cause immense problems.  </p>
<p>Some automation is necessary, but this is an area I hope and believe will remain human-connected.  There are virtual printoffs, but the basic need remains a real person.  </p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;.it must NOT force patients into clinic-type atmospheres with long waits to see specialists or get MRIs&#8230;&#8221;  </p>
<p>An MRI is often given only in time of great need, not as a routine service.  I had a very dizzy spell last year out of the blue, so bad that I was literally hugging the wall when I got home for fear of falling.  The ER did an immediate MRI on my brain to rule out an aneurysm or other brain abnormality; luckily it was not a brain problem.   </p>
<p>However, long waits are another matter.  My sister was dx&#8217;d last year with the possibility of CA in her endocrine glands, and not even her own internist could get her to see an endrocinologist for almost 3 months&#8230;.she had to wait that long.  Obviously it was a fearful time.  It happens more often than you think right here in the USA.   It will depend more often on the quantity of that specialist in the region you live.  Obviously, if you live in or near a major city, your chances are better, but many people must wait inordinate amount of time to see specialists, EVEN IF, they are facing serious medical issues.  </p>
<p>And I agree with sparticusisnotdead&#8230;.  I don&#8217;t much care a whit what something is called. It is the system it delivers.   If France or other countries have developed a better serviced and less costly manner of delivering than here, then the word &#8217;socialism&#8217; becomes less of a dirty word.   Perhaps it should be rephrased&#8230;.pragmatism.</p>
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		<title>By: SpartacusIsNotDead</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/healthcare-must-be-affordable/comment-page-2#comment-65355</link>
		<dc:creator>SpartacusIsNotDead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12429#comment-65355</guid>
		<description>Sinz wrote:   &quot;So any health care solution for America must NOT look like “socialism,” it must NOT look like rationing, it must NOT force patients into clinic-type atmospheres with long waits to see specialists or get MRIs, it must NOT force affluent patients into decrepit health clinics where they rub elbows with the underclass .  .  . &quot;

Why do you keep saying things that simply aren&#039;t true?  France is a perfect example of a more &quot;socialist&quot; system that proves you dead wrong.  France has an extremely diverse population, it has the best healthcare system in the world and it has avoided ALL of the problems you just described.  The French system is much better than ours and it costs a heck of a lot less, but for some illogical reason, conservatives prefer the current American system to the French system because it&#039;s  . .  .  socialist?  

Grow up!  Who cares what the system is called or that it is not an unregulated free market?  Free markets are nothing more than a means to an end.  They are not the end in and of themselves.  And, the free market system has proven incapable of solving our problem.  If the French system can solve our problem and save businesses and state and federal governments a lot of money, you&#039;d have to be either an ideological idiot not to try to adopt their system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinz wrote:   &#8220;So any health care solution for America must NOT look like “socialism,” it must NOT look like rationing, it must NOT force patients into clinic-type atmospheres with long waits to see specialists or get MRIs, it must NOT force affluent patients into decrepit health clinics where they rub elbows with the underclass .  .  . &#8221;</p>
<p>Why do you keep saying things that simply aren&#8217;t true?  France is a perfect example of a more &#8220;socialist&#8221; system that proves you dead wrong.  France has an extremely diverse population, it has the best healthcare system in the world and it has avoided ALL of the problems you just described.  The French system is much better than ours and it costs a heck of a lot less, but for some illogical reason, conservatives prefer the current American system to the French system because it&#8217;s  . .  .  socialist?  </p>
<p>Grow up!  Who cares what the system is called or that it is not an unregulated free market?  Free markets are nothing more than a means to an end.  They are not the end in and of themselves.  And, the free market system has proven incapable of solving our problem.  If the French system can solve our problem and save businesses and state and federal governments a lot of money, you&#8217;d have to be either an ideological idiot not to try to adopt their system.</p>
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		<title>By: crtune</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/healthcare-must-be-affordable/comment-page-2#comment-65341</link>
		<dc:creator>crtune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12429#comment-65341</guid>
		<description>As regards &quot;paperless&quot; as a serious cost reduction, think twice about this.  My GP is like many I&#039;ve run into (particularly the younger docs) he has absolutely everything in handheld accessible and networked computer storage.  All my patient data is in a DBMS based system as is his practice recordkeeping, billing system, and his PDR.  This is in a Burbank, CA based practice.  The doc is in his fifties.  I admit hospitals may vary as regards level of automata.  Likely newer hospitals are more paperless, older ones are more likely to need updating.   

Some additional thoughts.  Transfer of data and error due to inaccuracy of data are also important.  An XML flavor for the entire healthcare industry would be a good thing, and is likely already in development.  Thing to do would be for an org like ISO, or ANSI to establish and grow a standard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As regards &#8220;paperless&#8221; as a serious cost reduction, think twice about this.  My GP is like many I&#8217;ve run into (particularly the younger docs) he has absolutely everything in handheld accessible and networked computer storage.  All my patient data is in a DBMS based system as is his practice recordkeeping, billing system, and his PDR.  This is in a Burbank, CA based practice.  The doc is in his fifties.  I admit hospitals may vary as regards level of automata.  Likely newer hospitals are more paperless, older ones are more likely to need updating.   </p>
<p>Some additional thoughts.  Transfer of data and error due to inaccuracy of data are also important.  An XML flavor for the entire healthcare industry would be a good thing, and is likely already in development.  Thing to do would be for an org like ISO, or ANSI to establish and grow a standard.</p>
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		<title>By: crtune</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/healthcare-must-be-affordable/comment-page-2#comment-65340</link>
		<dc:creator>crtune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12429#comment-65340</guid>
		<description>I see someone opined that increased costs in health insurance would somehow affect the profit of individual companies as these costs increased.  That doesn&#039;t exactly compute for this former accountant.  Perhaps we are thinking that more industries or clusters of competitors will attempt to provide no insurance for staff?  The usual situation is where a number of companies all vie for the workers they need.  One of the ways they compete is by offering health insurance.  Because of the silly way health insurance is regulated and is sold, companies have very limited choices right now in terms of how many competing health plans they can even consider.  Usually the group is roughly three or four at most.  Then the company decides what level they want to provide (usually with lots of input from employees) and then story over.  

Profit will derive from the companies other actions independent of this above choice.  These choices are already priced into our product offerings and will not fluctuate based upon competing with other competitors in our industry.  Another way of looking at it is that health insurance cost is &quot;semi-fixed&quot;.

Incidentally, according to classical economics, the current situation in the healthcare industry is not &quot;competition&quot; rather it is constrained and highly regulated, with extreme barriers to entry.  Think about all the filings and petitions that must be made to open a new hospital.  Think of all the licensing needed for doctors and nurses.  Think of the US FDA trials that must occur for pharma.  How much of the cost of medicine derives from existing regulation?  Do we know for sure, with accuracy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see someone opined that increased costs in health insurance would somehow affect the profit of individual companies as these costs increased.  That doesn&#8217;t exactly compute for this former accountant.  Perhaps we are thinking that more industries or clusters of competitors will attempt to provide no insurance for staff?  The usual situation is where a number of companies all vie for the workers they need.  One of the ways they compete is by offering health insurance.  Because of the silly way health insurance is regulated and is sold, companies have very limited choices right now in terms of how many competing health plans they can even consider.  Usually the group is roughly three or four at most.  Then the company decides what level they want to provide (usually with lots of input from employees) and then story over.  </p>
<p>Profit will derive from the companies other actions independent of this above choice.  These choices are already priced into our product offerings and will not fluctuate based upon competing with other competitors in our industry.  Another way of looking at it is that health insurance cost is &#8220;semi-fixed&#8221;.</p>
<p>Incidentally, according to classical economics, the current situation in the healthcare industry is not &#8220;competition&#8221; rather it is constrained and highly regulated, with extreme barriers to entry.  Think about all the filings and petitions that must be made to open a new hospital.  Think of all the licensing needed for doctors and nurses.  Think of the US FDA trials that must occur for pharma.  How much of the cost of medicine derives from existing regulation?  Do we know for sure, with accuracy?</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/healthcare-must-be-affordable/comment-page-2#comment-65325</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12429#comment-65325</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Public goods and Constitutionally enshrined individual rights are not the same thing. Please remember that.&lt;/b&gt;

Absolutely in agreement.  That is my point exactly in #7.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Public goods and Constitutionally enshrined individual rights are not the same thing. Please remember that.</p>
<p>Absolutely in agreement.  That is my point exactly in #7.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/healthcare-must-be-affordable/comment-page-2#comment-65317</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12429#comment-65317</guid>
		<description>Public goods and Constitutionally enshrined individual rights are not the same thing.  Please remember that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Public goods and Constitutionally enshrined individual rights are not the same thing.  Please remember that.</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/healthcare-must-be-affordable/comment-page-2#comment-65315</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=12429#comment-65315</guid>
		<description>cwilla11:  &lt;b&gt;This intimidates senior citizens into thinking that the health care they truly need is vastly more expensive than what they could ever afford.&lt;/b&gt;

Yeah - that&#039;s the problem with Medicare.   It&#039;s been a tool used by the elites to convince senior citizens that they wouldn&#039;t be able to afford care without that coverage.  

If we just did away with Medicare, the free market would quickly eliminate rationing and give every senior easy access to highly affordable and effective treatments that are currently unavailable to them because of wasteful bureaucracy and ... umm ... intimidation.  Yeah, that&#039;s it.  Seniors are intimidated into beingn forced to use Medicare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cwilla11:  This intimidates senior citizens into thinking that the health care they truly need is vastly more expensive than what they could ever afford.</p>
<p>Yeah &#8211; that&#8217;s the problem with Medicare.   It&#8217;s been a tool used by the elites to convince senior citizens that they wouldn&#8217;t be able to afford care without that coverage.  </p>
<p>If we just did away with Medicare, the free market would quickly eliminate rationing and give every senior easy access to highly affordable and effective treatments that are currently unavailable to them because of wasteful bureaucracy and &#8230; umm &#8230; intimidation.  Yeah, that&#8217;s it.  Seniors are intimidated into beingn forced to use Medicare.</p>
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