Comments on: Have There Ever Been This Many Conservatives At Once On Npr?

By: HollywoodBill

HollywoodBill — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 13:19:29 +0000

Jon Hunstman, the Governor of Utah, of course a Mormon, has come up with an intruiging course to G-A-Y marriage: State accepted civil unions with full parity. He is taking a tremendous amount of flack for it, but it has promise since it out Dems the Dems and offers a practical solution. And this issue is certain to be a campaign issue in the CA 2010 gubernatorial race because there is already talk of repealing Prop8 being on the ballot. But the hard core line of overturning Lawrence v Texas is no longer acceptable nor is the overturning of Roe going to happen. If the Socons want to keep Dixie within their grasp, fine. But the rest of the GOP is done with the theocracy. Give us libertarian Republicanism. And the real thing, not the faux Bob Barr or Ron Paul version

By: HollywoodBill

HollywoodBill — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 13:10:11 +0000

The socons were given a seat at the table, but they keep insisting on the surf and turf while the rest of us are stuck with the rubber chicken. Their totally dogmatic views are alienating the rest of the GOP and while even
Frum says to moderate the stances, the reality is that the voters are saying NO. The socons are now incapable of winning statewide seats in most regions outside of Dixie and the Bible Belt.

By: sinz54

sinz54 — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:52:58 +0000

JohnnyCat: I agree with you that two elections (2006 and 2008) are still not transformative. What I have been arguing is that the demographic trends in America are what are tilting against the GOP. Obama won states like New Mexico with the Hispanic vote, which the GOP ceded to the Dems with the collapse of Bush’s immigration bill. Obama won just overwhelmingly among young voters, who are, of course, tomorrow’s middle-aged voters. Obama won among single women (including single moms), who helped Obama carry the suburbs. The yearly Pew Survey of religions in America shows that white married Protestants–the GOP’s bread and butter–are now down to just 51% of the electorate, and that number decreases every year. If the GOP can only win among white married Protestants, it will never win another national election again. The GOP *must* start thinking about how to target groups other than white married Protestants.

By: sinz54

sinz54 — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:43:23 +0000

Johnnycat sez: “so I guess the answer is that you would, gladly, jettison the socons.” NO. FALSE. But I think it’s time that the GOP leadership confronted the SoCons and told them that it’s time for the SoCons to start compromising on their agenda. That the GOP cannot keep dutifully writing their entire agenda into the GOP platform. The SoCons should be reminded that they are one faction within a broad coalition; and in any coalition, no faction can constantly get its own way on everything. There are a lot of ways that the GOP can soften its stance a bit on these hot-button social issues, without totally reversing its traditional stances: Let abortion revert to the states; don’t tell liberal states like Vermont or Massachusetts that they have to ban abortion too. Give homosexuals the rights they’re asking for, in inheritance, hospital visitation, etc., without full marriage. Allow embryonic stem-cell research on embryos that would have been discarded anyway. Welcome homosexuals and single moms into the GOP. Etc.

By: johnnycat

johnnycat — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 21:29:18 +0000

i disagree hollywood. you are casting a very long net on the future of the gop on the basis of some electoral defeat. you nor i can predict with certainty what will be conservative’s fate in 8 years. in 2005 they were writing the dems off as unelectable. what is left, then, is an ideological argument. for the most part i am a libertarian and believe hayek and von mises. i just happen to think genderless marriage and abortion are wrong. because neither of us have a crystal ball on the future what is left is to push for what we believe in. that’s the wise course.

By: HollywoodBill

HollywoodBill — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 20:21:54 +0000

However, johnnycat, the moralizing busybodies of the GOP are incapable of winning statewide elections except in the South, not to mention national elections. And we are not going to prostelyze ourselves for the evangelical movement. The realities are what they are. New England, The Pacific Coastal states, now the mountain West and the Great Lakes states are incapable of electing so cons. The GOP is not on a kamikaze run. Its goal is to win elections. For example, no so con is running for the GOP nomination for Governor of CA ffor 2010. Because they can’t win. And Arizona might also get a Dem governor in 2010 because the incumbent who replaced Napolitano is a hard core so con and is going to have a rough time winning reelection. Keeping the socons in control of the GOP is a suicide mission too. Ultimately, the voters will sort it out in time. But all projections indicate that sooner or later the socons are going to be leaving the island with 2016 being the most accepted date.

By: johnnycat

johnnycat — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 20:07:27 +0000

Hollywood: so I guess the answer is that you would, gladly, jettison the socons. While you did that you would be jettisoning people who have a fundamental cultural disagreement with liberalism and that does not only include the so-called “extremists” you believe you have your finger on. Go over to the Big Hollywood website…or New Criterion and you will experience great writing on cultural issues, that dare I say, incorporate a moral perspective to poignant analysis on issues of the day. Once you jettisoned the socons you would probably lose these people too. I think this is suicidal for the Republican Party. Where would all those you jettisoned because you feel they are extremists go? I am anti-abortion and I am against genderless marriage. In your Republican Party I would not have a voice and would be labeled an extremist. Wouldn’t I. Tell me, Bill, where do you think I should go?

By: HollywoodBill

HollywoodBill — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:25:13 +0000

I’m in favor of candidates winning elections and setting the national platform. The embroyonic stem cell research from Bush in 2001 is a loser. Contrary to the socons, most Americans favor unrestricted first trimester abortions. Roe is going nowhere. And Governor Jon Huntsman of Utah of all places is promoting the idea of same sex civil unions. That would one up the Dems and could be a box office winner. Palin was in favor of a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. She is a religious extremist who did not win any support for McCain and probably caused him votes particularly in the Western states. But I am sick of moralizing busybodies trying to regulate morality and luckily I am from a state that will vote against socons all the time. A Dem is more acceptable in the Western libertarian based Republican states than the Revival Tent Republicans. It would be a relief for the GOP to return to its real libertarian roots–not the faux ones of Bob Barr and Ron Paul. The elecorate is refusing to put so cons into office except in the South and the Bible Belt. The GOP needs to listen.

By: johnnycat

johnnycat — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:04:50 +0000

Let me put this question another way Hollywood: If you were the dictator of the Republican Party how would you shape it? I am assuming you would banish the socons and move the party socially to the left. That would include being pro-abortion and supporting let’s genderless marriage. Let me add this question: because this would actually be moving the Republican Party to the left of most of the Democratic presidential candidates, who did not supporty marriage but civil unions (which Palin also supported) how does this help us win votes? By being more leftist than the Democrats?

By: johnnycat

johnnycat — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 18:49:58 +0000

Ok Hollywood. So what would you do with socons? It seems that they are able to deliver the south pretty consistently, which is absolutely vital for Republicans in national elections. If we need to abandon the socons, my question is how do we do it? I personally do not not that supporting abortion and being against genderless marriage are political losers. But assuming for the sake of argument I agree with you, how would you go about alienating millions of loyal voters within the party? What technique would you use. That’s what I’m asking…