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Hamas: Homosexuality Worse Than Terrorism

October 29th, 2010 at 7:55 am David Frum | 40 Comments |

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From Gaza, prostate Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar fulminates to Reuters against Western condemnation of the Islamic terrorist movement:

You in the West do not live like human beings. You do not even live like animals. You accept homosexuality. And now you criticize us?

(h/t Tom Gross)

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40 Comments so far ↓

  • Elvis Elvisberg

    Sounds like he could win a GOP Gubernatorial primary in New York.

  • CD-Host

    Sounds like he could win a GOP Gubernatorial primary in New York.

    Nah too liberal on economic policy. Hamas wants to spend a huge percentage of the budget on food and education for the poor. They completely fail to understand the purpose of government is to transfer wealth to rich people.

  • mpolito

    It’s okay, because a Muslim said it. He could become a professor at CUNY, among other places. If he was a Christian, it would of course be wrong to say it.

    That meaningless term “tolerance” is just fraught with paradoxes, isn’t it?

  • Nanotek

    oh yes, people killing one another (terrorism) is so much more politically correct than loving one another (gay or unmarried hetero having sex) … I normally shy from generalizations but most religions seem inherently anti-life and anti-human, especially certain Muslim and Christian sects that think they speak for a god that threatens to kill everyone if anyone doesn’t do as their religion demands

    what a bizarre notion of a god — can’t effectuate its own will and has a fetish for collective punishment

  • dafyd

    *BREAKING NEWS * :Fox News just gave Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar fulminates a 2 million dallor contract to host his own show…

    – sorry just couldn’t help it….

  • CentristNYer

    Funny, but the attitude behind his rhetoric doesn’t sound much different from that of any number of social conservatives who are running strong in the midterms. Fundamentalist wingnuttery seems only to be tolerated when it comes out of the mouth of a Christian.

  • Madeline

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,338271,00.html

    “The homosexual agenda is destroying this nation, OK, it’s just a fact,” Rep. Sally Kern said recently to a gathering of fellow Republicans outside the Capitol.

    “Studies show no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted, you know, more than a few decades. So it’s the death knell in this country.

    “I honestly think it’s the biggest threat that our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam, which I think is a big threat,” she said.

  • PatrickQuint

    Nanotek “I normally shy from generalizations…”

    You should shy away from them a little more often. If you’re going to say that a large segment of the American population condones genocide, then I must ask you to back that up. The response to this story should be about denouncing bigotry, not trading it for a different flavor.

    I strongly suspect that this man sees this terrorism as a form of self-defense against “Western imperialism” or some such nonsense. So, he believes that killing in self-defense is better than homosexuality. In general, he probably sees Western culture as naked hedonism. Know thy enemy.

    I think it’s best that he be disabused of his ignorance, preferably while residing in a small cell.

  • Slide

    mpolito your post makes about as much sense as a Christine O’Donnell appearance on Politically Correct.

  • drdredel

    “Studies show no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted, you know, more than a few decades. So it’s the death knell in this country.

    I love how you can start any idiotic assertion with “studies show” and be absolved of any responsibility for making no sense.

    You don’t need “studies” to examine history, and if memory serves, Rome and Greece both embraced homosexuality and seemed to last for quite a lot longer than a few decades. They also embraced goat cheese… perhaps that’s what led to their eventual downfall? Or was it the slippers and the togas?

  • Slide

    You don’t need “studies” to examine history, and if memory serves, Rome and Greece both embraced homosexuality and seemed to last for quite a lot longer than a few decades

    I think you can add ancient Egypt to that list. I think they were around for more that a few decade weren’t they?

  • easton

    mpolito, yeah, I am sure all the people protesting the genocide in Darfur are all Conservatives.
    The term Liberal and Human rights are far more synonymous than Human rights and Conservative.
    This is something Conservatives should be deeply ashamed of. Down in Mexico all the organizations that promote the rights of women or gays are all Liberal, and I have seen such situations all over the world. The concept of basic human dignity below which we must not sink under is beyond far too many Conservatives.

  • Elvis Elvisberg

    More on the interview this is drawn from here: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/you-should-be-ashamed-of-supporting-israel-hamas-tells-west-1.321620

    He is animated by the exact same tribalism as the GOP.

    “I am a Muslim living here according to our tradition. Why should I live under your tradition?” said Zahar, who served as Hamas foreign minister between 2006-2007 and is under constant, heavy protection. “We understand you very well, You are poor people. Morally poor. Don’t criticize us because of what we are.”

    This is the exact same line of thought as Sarah Palin talking about Real America.

  • Slide

    that’s not fair easton… conservatives are very concerned about Human Rights… for the most down trodden and oppressed of all groups – white Christians. You can even detect that in mpolito’s post, If he was a Christian, it would of course be wrong to say it. Always the poor victim.

  • mpolito

    Dafyd, did NPR find his comments offensive? Because I’m not sure what exactly they find offensive.

    CentristNYer and Madeline, so, because conservatives do not approve of homosexuality they are therefore the same as terrorists? You don’t have the guts to say this flat out, but this is of course the idea you adhere to and want floating around everyone’s head. The problem is, two can play this game. Consider the following quote: “Discussing climate change is not an intellectual luxury, but a reality…all of the industrialized countries, especially the big ones, bear responsibility for the global warming crisis.” This is not Al Gore, but Osama bin Laden. Shall we be reminded of his views of global warming, and compare them to those of Democrats? How about his views of Israel? I can keep going.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7104143/Osama-bin-Laden-enters-global-warming-debate.html

    Again, because two can play at this game, it’s better to not play it at all. I would never say ‘it is wrong to believe in global warming because Osama bin Laden believes in it,’ so don’t use the authority fallacy. It’s not an argument.

    Easton, if liberals care so much about ‘human rights,’ then why do conservatives give more to charity than liberals? Liberals are very good at loving humanity as a whole, and protesting (conservatives are actually at work during the prime protesting time), and regarding government as the sole provider of ‘charity.’ But they are not very good at actually giving to charity themselves. Conservatives generally don’t pat ourselves on the back about this, but I’ll bring it up if you want to throw down the gauntlet.

  • TerryF98

    Sounds like about any Fox pundit or RW Chrisianist jihadist.

  • CD-Host

    then why do conservatives give more to charity than liberals?

    1) Older
    2) Wealthier
    3) 2x as common in the population

    normalized I’d be curious if they do. Now break out social conservatives from economic conservatives. I honestly don’t know what you find.

  • xyzzy

    So why then do so many left-wing organizations support these guys? They obviously don’t like gays — calling them homosexuals, ouch — and really don’t seem to understand about women’s rights either. So what is the left-wing attraction? You see it in Europe, on our campuses, …. Strange bed-fellows…

  • Slide

    mpolito // Oct 29, 2010 at 12:53 pm: CentristNYer and Madeline, so, because conservatives do not approve of homosexuality they are therefore the same as terrorists?

    oh mpolito don’t get your panties all bunched up. Nobody is saying conservatives are the same as terrorists. But on your side of the aisle we do have the likes of Newt Gingrich and now Tancredo saying that Obama is WORSE than terrorists.

    Stop playing the victim all the time it is so tiresome.

  • easton

    Easton, if liberals care so much about ‘human rights,’ then why do conservatives give more to charity than liberals?

    F-ing lie. Look, Conservatives have a hell of a lot more money and their giving to charities such as the local symphony, or their mega-church/social center/movie theater is meaningless since it directly benefits them.

    And the fact is, as I have said time and again, Liberals do the actual charitable work, they are the ones who work in AIDS hospitals in Africa, or dig the composters in rural Mexico, or live on a remote island in the South pacific. 15 years I have lived in poor regions of the world and believe you me, I haven’t seen any Conservatives doing a damn thing.

    So you want to throw down mpolito? I will put my biography against yours any day. I will put my 15 years of living in rural China, rural Mexico, Pohnpei, and elsewhere against your sitting on your fat ass all day, feeling all superior because you cut a small check to your local church. And the only reason I am not in Iraq or Afghanistan right now is because I got married and have 3 kids.

    Now I am not going to say I do this because I “love” humanity, but I do love life, I do love the adventure of going to a new country, learning the language, contributing to the society there.
    And a couple years ago, during the teachers strike the Governor sent in the militia to shut us down and a number of people died. I didn’t leave. I am also not leaving even though the Zetas recently killed some people, or after my friends friend was kidnapped and held for ransom (they cut off his finger). Life has risks. My wife, otoh, doesn’t want this so she is pushing me to pull up stakes and move back to the states. So be it, I have to consider her fears.

    But yeah, your cutting a check is ever so much more impressive.

    By the way, on the topic of gays, surprisingly Muxes are pretty much accepted here (muxes are gays who dress and live as women). I was surprised how in rural, catholic Mexico it would be so open and vibrant, but it is a tradition passed down from the Zapotecos. Life has wonderful surprises.

  • Slide

    By the way, giving money to the Ted Haggard’s or the Bishop Eddie Long’s of the world is considered “charitable giving”. I can see why it seems that conservatives are more generous. If we exclude the money that conservatives give to their church organizations I wonder what the numbers would look like. And if you think financing the Bishop Eddie Long’s mansions and luxury cars is charitable giving then I have a bridge here in Brooklyn that I might be able to interest you in.

  • easton

    So why then do so many left-wing organizations support these guys?

    OK, then name the left-wing organizations that do. I want names and they better be famous (and no idiot actors, no one cares) and influential.

  • Nanotek

    “Nanotek “I normally shy from generalizations…” You should shy away from them a little more often. If you’re going to say that a large segment of the American population condones genocide, then I must ask you to back that up. The response to this story should be about denouncing bigotry, not trading it for a different flavor.”

    PatrickQuint,

    Fair enough … but don’t put your words in my mouth …

    C Street — the radical Christianists (let me know if you need a back up on them) pushed for the death for the gays bill in Uganda … — are all for genocide

    http://www.msmagazine.com/news/uswirestory.asp?ID=12699

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/arkansas-school-board-member-resign-antigay-comments/

  • pnumi2

    Hamas: Homosexuality Worse Than Terrorism

    Yes, but is it worse than Israel?

    (You don’t think so? Do you live around here?)

  • Rob_654

    Amazing how much radical Islam and radical Christianity and radical Judaism have in common…

  • xyzzy

    Hi easton. Obviously, you would agree I am no expert at anything — but don’t go spitting out expletives and insults at me :-)

    Now, if there are convervatives supporting Hamas, Hezbolla, Fatah — I just have not read about it. If it is there, then I am assuming it is related to commercial business — such as oil.

    That said.

    Over the years, I have read quite a few news reports and articles about college campus organizations — pro-palestinian ones that include support for Hamas and even Hezbolla. These organizations are not filled by conservatives — honestly. Just do an internet search on the subject. I always found it strange that people can ignore the horrible gay, women, even human rights (for Jews) in their passion for the palestinian people. I do care for the palestinians but they really need to stand up on their own and shake off the yoke of Hamas and embrace life instead of a homicide cult — they need a Ghandi.

    Europe is very socialistic compared to the U.S. — just look at what caused the riots in France recently. They also have a huge muslim population. Anyways, here too I have read news and articles similar to the ones about our college campuses except applying to their leftist parties and Labor Unions — not the conservative parties.

    Now, in the U.S., quite infrequently, but it is still there, I have read articles refering to our labor unions and anti-Israeli, pro-palestinian activities.

    The thing is, there is no way to support the palestinians without supporting Hamas, Fatah, Hezbolla. They are completely surrounded. All these organizations have no consideration for western human rights.

    Maybe I am wrong, I don’t know. I have an open mind. Just saying…

    My theory, and it is quite simple minded, is that the left identifies with a “victim” — in this case the palestinians and, because Israel is a western country, they are viewed as the “oppressors” just as they view America as a “bully” nation (we deserved 9/11, it’s our fault…). Consequently the left turns a blind eye to the fact that the palestinians are muslim and are completely controlled by the Hamas, Hezbolla nuts.

  • greg_barton

    Nice use of generalization and vague anecdone.

    Name names. Be specific. If you can’t do that then your assertion that liberals support Hamas and their ilk is meaningless.

  • easton

    xyzzy, I didn’t insult, you, and as greg_barton pointed out, unless you can be specific for all I know you are talking about some idiot far left wing group that has zero influence and credibility, the lefts version of the KKK on the right. Now who do you suppose the Klan supports more, Hamas or Israel?
    And who cares?

    A lot of Conservatives state that unless you support people like Netanyahu or Avigdor Lieberman, then you are an anti-Semite, but that is just nonsense. You can be for an equitable and just solution for the Palestinians and Israelis, sadly to do this you have to negotiate with the PLA and even have backdoor meetings with Hamas (who I think are thugs and fools). Calling for an equitable solution is not supporting Hamas, even if in the end they benefit (as would Israelis and all Palestinians if a peaceful solution is found)

  • Jamie

    Easton,

    I think your idea that liberals support notions of human rights more than conservatives is a little off base. What conservatives don’t support is some interpretations of human rights; interpretations created and perpetuated by leftist (sometimes neomarxist or whatever) non-governmental groups and some of the international bureaucrats they lobby. Also, you cite these NGOs as proof that liberals do more to actually help disadvantaged people than conservatives. However, you are forgetting the numerous religious charities and organizations that do a lot of good work all over the world. They are side by side risking their own well-being for the betterment of others. Think of the Korean Christian workers who were captured (and some murdered) in Afghanistan at the beginning of the war. Now that I think about it, a lot of the aid workers that I’ve heard about on the news being targeting in Afghanistan are from faith-based groups such as these.

  • xyzzy

    LGBT rights in Israel are considered to be the most developed in the Middle East.

    4000 LGBT punished by death in Iran since 1979.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_topics_and_Islam
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel

    Why? Because Shariah Law dictates a punishment of death.

    Obviously, Shariah Islamic law is incompatible with western human rights, American civil society and our constitutional law.

    easton, barton, specifics. That’s hard because of time. But I see that there is definitely a perception that the left supports Hamas and others over Israel.

    For instance:

    Hence the following blog: “A Liberal Defence of Israel” by Dennis MacEoin:

    http://mid-eastplus.blogspot.com/

    “In a bizarre reversal of all their commitment to human rights and the struggle of men and women for independence and self-determination, the European Left has chosen again and again to side with the bullies and to condemn a small nation struggling to survive in a hostile neighborhood. It is all self-contradictory: The Left supports gay rights, yet attacks the only country in the Middle East where gay rights are enshrined in law. Hamas makes death the punishment for being gay, but “we are all Hamas now.” Iran hangs gays, but it is praised as an agent of anti-imperialism, and allowed to get on with its job of stoning women and executing dissidents and members of religious minorities. If UK Premier Gordon Brown swore to wipe France from the face of the earth, he would become a pariah among nations. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad threatens to do that to Israel and is invited to speak to the UN General Assembly”

    http://www.meforum.org/2056/marching-for-hamas

    And here is another blogger:

    http://www.jenniferhanin.com/2010/08/liberals-hypocrites/

    When I read this my heart literally broke and I stopped researching:

    http://jdlcanada.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/%E2%80%9Cthis-ad-was-approved-by-hamas/

  • xyzzy

    IMHO – when and if the Palestinians achieve statehood, they probably will declare Shariah Law.

  • Houndentenor

    Count me as a liberal who does not support Hamas. I know I’m not the only one.

    But this statement sounded exactly like words that many Republicans have said in the last two years.

  • xyzzy

    I don’t know why my previous comment is “awaiting moderation”.

    But I also am now confounded that people are supporting the palestinians — who support Hamas and many if not most would want Shariah Law. Save them so they can then persecute — possibly punish to death — homosexuals, cut off the noses or stone adulterers? What’s the point?

  • easton

    Jamie,

    You are confusing faith based with Conservative, but that is not the case at all. I know many, many religious Liberals. This though does highlight the problem with language, what do you call someone who is fairly socially conservative (ie pro-life, against gay marriage but who is tolerant of gays) and who is economically liberal (for UHC, etc.)? Suffice it to say I am pretty certain that I have not met one who is a Randian type of Conservative. Nearly all that I have met are economically liberal.

    Lets also not forget that Churches are NGO’s. There is a priest who aids migrants coming from Central America that runs a shelter in my Mexican town (it is on the main rail line).
    Though he is a Catholic priest he is in no way a Conservative. Conservatives in the US would condemn him as some kind of radical leftist for aiding “criminals” who seek a better life in the states.

    People who do aid work are dismissively called “bleeding hearts” and the word that usually follows this is Liberal, not conservative.

  • Jamie

    Easton,

    I know that not every religious person is conservative (the priest at my best friends wedding made a nasty comment about “the right” during the ceremony). Yet you have to admit there is a lot of mixing between social conservatives as an ideological group and people of faith… not only here, but all over the world. The term “the religious right” doesn’t come from nowhere. Extending this logic, I also wouldn’t be surprised to find out that there are more atheist donors to progressive groups than to religious groups. To me, this just goes without saying. My point about faith-based groups was not that their members doing the work on the ground are typically politically conservative (though many surely are), but that a large section of their donors are (I would speculate the largest). How often do you think secular progressives donate to these kinds of organizations when compared to social conservatives? There is a lot more to charity work than college and grad students digging wells in rural 3rd world areas. My Saturday mornings since childhood have been saturated with commercials by these religious NGOs urging action. Their work and the people who fund them are not insignificant.

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