RSS Feed MenuIt looks like the pattern on Republican healthcare messaging is set. From now until the election, we’ll wake up to at least one headline saying that healthcare won’t be repealed, and by the end of the day the Senate leadership will be assuring RedState.com that they are “committed to the repeal message.”
Your headline of the day is courtesy of Bob Corker and the Nashville Business Journal: “Corker: Health reform won’t be repealed”
Read downwards and you get this.
In the immediate aftermath of the reform’s passage, many of Corker’s Republican colleagues, including 2008 presidential contender Sen. John McCain, have pledged to repeal the legislation. Corker described that as unlikely, given the reality of needing 67 votes in the Senate to overcome a presidential veto of repeal legislation.
“The fact is that’s not going to happen, OK?” Corker told dozens of people at Vanderbilt University.
Still, Corker made clear his opposition to the legislation and spoke in favor of continued, incremental legislative reform in future years to correct problems he foresees.
Now, obviously, the senators that are allegedly “pledged to repeal” also know that they will not have 67 votes in the Senate to override. There is, in fact, a bit more nuance in the “repeal message”. Repeal actually means a whole bunch of things that are not repeal; court challenges, forcing hard votes on defunding the unpopular parts of the legislation, etc. Just as “ending the Iraq war” after the 2006 elections involved a bunch of things that did not, in fact, end the Iraq war, so shall the Republicans do in 2011.
On the other hand, we could do what Bob Corker (and FrumForum) wants, and try and correct the bill instead of impeding it. But there is an argument against that, from a cynical perspective. Question: Would the Democrats have won even bigger in 2006 and 2008 if, instead of pledging to repeal the Iraq War, they instead ran on a message of fixing it? In other words, going with Candidate Kaus’s “against the war, but for the surge” stance?
Probably not so much.
So, I’m forced to think the double game that Republican senators are playing with RedState.com and the mainstream press is pretty much the right way to go, and I fully support it.
ottovbvs // Apr 1, 2010 at 3:33 pm
“So, I’m forced to think the double game that Republican senators are playing with RedState.com and the mainstream press is pretty much the right way to go, and I fully support it.”
…..you mean lie?……what I find funniest about Mr Brownson’s naive speculations is the assumption there is no Democratic party participating in the election who are going to force this onto the front burner…..as Mr Kirk is finding out you can run but you can’t hide…….personally I expect most of the Democratic campaign this fall to revolve around the HELL of lot of hostages to fortune the GOP has given on economic recovery, equal pay for women, student loans, healthcare, etc etc. …..but good luck with that war without an enemy Mr Brownson
ottovbvs // Apr 1, 2010 at 3:36 pm
…..And btw by the fall the Iraq withdrawal will be in full swing so Obama will appear to have ENDED the Iraq war (I fully accept he won’t have done) but all the combat troops will be out and we’ll be down to about 40,0oo men so he can say he’s shut it down
rbottoms // Apr 1, 2010 at 4:16 pm
…..you mean lie?
We were immobilized, Captain Spock said it would be two days!” – Savik
“Come now Savik, you of all people go by the book.” – Kirk
“By the book?” – Savik
“By the book! Regulation 46A, if transmissions are being monitored during battle-“ – Kirk
“No uncoded messages on an open channel. You lied?!?” – Savik
“I exaggerated.” – Spock
Independent // Apr 1, 2010 at 6:18 pm
Mr Brownson, maybe truth eludes your grasp as rapidly as it has your good friend, DavidF these last few weeks… but you problem persists here.
You claim that Corker’s comment suggest the repeal isn’t going to happen. Guess what, Mr Brownson, the use of the phrase “Repeal Obama sCare” has been an easy shorthand used by many GOP Congressmen for the better part of 2 weeks now.
As has been explained extensively here and elsewhere, there are elements of health care reform that will not undergo the knife.
While the FrumBots have spun “repeal” Obama sCare to mean the complete reversal of everything contained in the biggest extension of the Welfare State since Lynnie Johnson, the truth is that GOPers aren’t saying that at all –it’s a shorthand. We mean to disassemble the bloated, cumbersome, untoward monster and banish it like we intend to banish Obama Messiah in 2012.
There are elements of Obama sCare that won’t be repealed even with super majorities of GOPers in the House, the Senate and when Obama loses in 2012.
Access issues, portability issues, existing conditions, wellness and prevention issues –they’re staying. Other things that GOPers liked and were willing to improve upon, if only the Democrat partisans had been willing to negotiate even a wee bit on the bill, will stay as well.
But that isn’t Obama sCare… Obama sCare is a whole lot more than those 3-4 issues. It’s the scope of the monster. It’s the abortion that ate the Democrats. It’s the wholesale takeover and new role of govt as enforcer of health care priorities that is going to be repealed.
The new mandate and IRS tax enforcement provisions will be gone. Poof. So will the death squads and the 100s of new govt enterprises intended to extend the reach of govt into our lives.
The rationing and selective reimbursement powers of the federal govt to tell Grandpa or Grandma that they need to clear out of the nursing home and struggle with the end of life issues at their grandkids home… will be gone. We’ll finally make the Doc-Fix a part of the plan, instead of ignore it and hope it goes away.
And the phrase “Obama Care” –definitely gone. To the scrapbooks of history.
The GOP will enact real med mal reform. Real tort reform. Protect medical equipment producers from frivolous lawsuits. Hammer bigPhrama and address the monopolies of Democrat-friendly Blues and repeal the preferential treatment for union and labor groups. And we’ll make hospitals true non-profit centers instead of cushy resting spots for liberals and Democrats to milk as directors.
And the best thing about all the changes in the shorthand known as repeal? We’ll put an end to the notion of universal health care mandated by Washington, devolve it back down to the states where it properly and constitutionally belongs.
The shorthand may be the word “repeal” but what the GOP has in mind is sweeping revolution to correct the excessive over-reach of govt and liberals and Democrats.
So say “Repeal” Mr Brownson. It’s misleading and inaccurate they way you intend. Of course, one often finds these days the FF diarists being a tad more cavalier with the truth… if you’d have reached a wee bit more, Mr Brownson, I’m sure you can hold it in your hands once again.
Not so with the farLeft FrumBots, I fear.
tempralanomaly // Apr 1, 2010 at 6:42 pm
I for one tend to operate under the assumption that repeal means:
re·peal (r-pl)
tr.v. re·pealed, re·peal·ing, re·peals
1. To revoke or rescind, especially by an official or formal act
As do most americans hearing this. To repeal something is to take it away in its entirety. To restore something to the state it was before.
Its not shorthand. Its a very distinct concept unto itself.
Now if they were to say Amend/Fix/Modify we wound not be having this issue.
ottovbvs // Apr 1, 2010 at 6:42 pm
….There’s your problem in a nutshell Orestes….you’ve indoctrinated the rubes……they ACTUALLY BELIEVE this repeal bs you’ve been peddling…..UNINDOCTRINATING THEM is likely to prove more difficult than you think but immensely amusing to Democrats….ho ho ho
ottovbvs // Apr 1, 2010 at 6:49 pm
tempralanomaly // Apr 1, 2010 at 6:42 pm
“Now if they were to say Amend/Fix/Modify we wound not be having this issue.”
….ahhhh…but there’s the rub…..precisely which bits are you going to amend/fix/modify?….this involves answering questions……We’re going to leave all the goodies that cost money but amend/fix/modify all the bits that pay for the goodies whilst screaming about deficits has a certain intellectual incoherence…..Obama and the Democrats have created a Morton’s Fork!!!!
Independent // Apr 1, 2010 at 7:28 pm
“tempralanomaly” –or rbottoms, I presume (the whole Star Trek thing is rbottoms’ game out to the nearest galaxy as shown directly above)…
Why play the game of multiple name posting, rbottoms? Do you really think it masks your identity? Well, I guess if you voted for Obama, you’ll believe anything… even something this lame.
Repeal is shorthand for the GOP. Here’s what’s been said by some GOP leaders:
Mitt Romney: “There is no doubt in anyone’s mind except the President’s that health care reform as passed by the Democrats is unpopular. We need to repeal the wrong parts, give states the power and encouragement to do what’s right, put in real reforms and changes, take out special deals and backroom bribes that still remain, stop the tax hikes and do something to actually control health care spending, as was advertised”. March 24; Boston.
Scott Brown: “I’m not in favor of wholesale repeal. We need to work with what has been dumped in our laps. We need to first fic the job killer segments of the bill and there are many, many of those. We need to address the concerns of those who might say repeal but mean reform. We need to work at it, trade for it, get it done because that’s why I was sent here by the voters. Not to engage in political positioning for advantage; I want to get things done. But first, I want to read the bill –I may even be the first Senator to do so.”
Today in The Hill, GOP Senator Lamar Alexander said: “Republicans expect at least “big changes” to the new health reform law as a result of their efforts”.
It would do the hyperpartisan fromBots here –including rbottoms writing under a variety of names– to give the GOP some credit.
Afterall, they did stop the Obama Thug & Mug Machine for nearly 16 months on Obama sCare. They were able to ramp up public opinion so high against Obama sCare that it continues to grow even though the GOP noise on the bill has abated.
As for our FF headline?
Obama didn’t end the Iraq War. Bush did. Bush had all the pieces in place to exit from Iraq and turn the country’s security back over to the democrat Iraq people… it was Obama that extended the time for US troops in Iraq… by 4-5 months and an additional 18,000 troops.
ottovbvs // Apr 1, 2010 at 7:35 pm
……the loons forecast Armageddon is here…..meanwhile auto sales are up 35-40%, the Dow brushes 11,000…………the world is coming to an end….but no one has noticed…..ooohhhh what a pity and the loons had laid in stocks of canned tuna just in case
agentprovocateur // Apr 1, 2010 at 9:27 pm
“Why play the game of multiple name posting, rbottoms?”
Projecting, yet again. When will you answer that question, MI GOPer/GOProud/Independent?
Joe In NH // Apr 1, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Independent- You want to do away with the insurance mandate but keep no pre-existing conditions but that is not possible. You want to force insurance companies to insure people who wait till the are sick to get insurance??? Is that how conservatives operate? Conservatives were in favor of the mandate before they were against them (for them till Obama was for the individual mandate).
They are all bums // Apr 2, 2010 at 4:07 am
The grand old hypocritical party gets more hypocitical everyday. Healthcare will not be repealed. The all or nothing strategy did not work. The healthcare program will get more popular not less, it is designed that way. The real budget busting is up the road. Can’t wait to see “Independents” plans for those “real reforms” and your ideas to make hospitals “true non profit centers.” Those kind of ideas seemed to be missing in the long debate.
By the way, how many times can Bush end the same war? He did it already in 2003 didn’t he, “Mission Accomplished” After hundreds of thousands of Iraqi’s have died and thousands of Americans for no reason, its now your belief that Bush is responsable for ending the war? You can’t have a discussion with delusional people beacuse they have their own reality, and brother you are deep in your own world. Despite disagreeing with Frum on many issues, he seems sincere about moving the party forward in order to achieve republican objectives. Others seem caught up in an ideological war based on a fantasy about a non exisistent plan to move the country to socialism. Anyone who bothered to even briefly study Obama’s bail out plan can see how idiotic that sounds. Their is no redistributing of wealth from the rich to the poor. It is the exact opposite, we the tax payers get suckered again as we bail out big business.
The biggest joke of all is the great threat from progressives, you mean the lunatics that think our goverment “was in on the 9/11 attack?” Progressives are a non entity on the political landscape.
Contrary to the opionion of some, Frum gets invited to appear on various shows because he sounds reasonable and intelligent. The left dosen’t need Frum to make the republican party look bad, they do that on their own. If you want to win, you have to get in the game.
pre-Reaganite // Apr 2, 2010 at 8:19 am
Yep, the GOP is caught between theatrical obstruction threats and the necessity of improving it, i.e. accepting it and participating in the search for the betterment of society. It boils down to whether they will play the demagogue in the craven lust for power or act like responsible adults.
If they do not work to improve it, I will not be able to support the GOP. Obama won this round, for all the bill’s flaws. Let’s be constructive. The other route will ensure irrelevancy for conservatives like myself.
sinz54 // Apr 2, 2010 at 9:30 am
Brownson: “So, I’m forced to think the double game that Republican senators are playing with RedState.com and the mainstream press is pretty much the right way to go, and I fully support it.”
1. I don’t like “double games” on principle. Tell the truth in every forum, and let the voters decide.
2. It’s really a TRIPLE game–because GOP Rep. Ryan, the only Republican congressman with the guts to say what is really needed to fix health care in America (including the rising cost of Medicare), is being kept in the background. So Corker will talk vaguely about fixing ObamaCare without ever saying what’s really needed to fix it–while Ryan and Heritage and AEI draw up plans that the GOP doesn’t want to endorse publicly.
3. In the age of politicized cable news like MSNBC and Fox, the Internet and YouTube, double games and triple games are a lot harder to pull off now. Anybody can start a YouTube channel with video clips of all these contradictory statements, side by side. And RedState.com isn’t going to let you get away with it. Anybody who isn’t committed repeal (like Corker) gets tagged as a “RINO,” and the GOP base will withdraw its support. They already noted Corker’s statement over there.
4. Obama really is going to withdraw most U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of 2011. So by your analogy, the GOP ought to present a roadmap explaining how they would fix ObamaCare in three years or less. Rep. Ryan is happy to explain his plan for doing that. But it requires sacrifice on the part of a lot of different pressure groups.
pre-Reaganite // Apr 2, 2010 at 9:46 am
Sinz, you have not in the slightest proven that double dealing is less possible due to the cable tv idiocy. Look at the explosive currency that Palin’s flat-out lie on “death panels” got. That means the GOP will try to it shame to talk out of boths sides of its mouth.
ottovbvs // Apr 2, 2010 at 10:38 am
pre-Reaganite // Apr 2, 2010 at 9:46 am
“Look at the explosive currency that Palin’s flat-out lie on “death panels” got”
…..yes but the only people who believed this were the already committed loons….the media of course played it up because it was so preposterous and colorful story and now…..guess what…..the Republicans are stuck with it along with Armageddon, HELL NO, the socialists are taking your doctor away, and all the other mountain of claptrap that was deployed to scare people……as the Prez demonstrated yesterday it’s a good laugh line
ottovbvs // Apr 2, 2010 at 10:40 am
“Rep. Ryan is happy to explain his plan ”
……Ryan’s “plan” is baloney just like McCain’s was and is going nowhere
tempralanomaly // Apr 2, 2010 at 11:18 am
Independent, I am my own person quite seperate from rbottums.
Just because I’m relatively new to these forums doesn’t mean i’m an alternate poster for a regular person trolling.
My point is that “Repeal” is not a shorthand in any form for the layman and the american people. When you say repeal, it invokes a very distinct concept from anyone whe’s ever passed 8th grade social studies. Prohabition and the Repeal. So my point stands. To a layman this will be a complete striping of the healthcare bill.
If the GOP wants to win popular support, they need to come up with a list of the items in the bill they want to change, the changes they intend to make and why. Not a blanket statement of Repeal.
As my boss says, “Come to me with solutions not problems.” Provide these solutions for the american people and the GOP will get back on track. The idealogical dogma can only carry it go so far.
The Dem. Bill is a attempt at a solution, granted with its own problems. If you strip a solution out ,you restore the old problem, and with no new plan to fill the gap that the repeal will have you will have as hard a sell removing it as the dems had getting it in place.
kevin47 // Apr 2, 2010 at 1:29 pm
“If the GOP wants to win popular support, they need to come up with a list of the items in the bill they want to change, the changes they intend to make and why. Not a blanket statement of Repeal. ”
I think it’s a given that they will calibrate their message. How they do so will depend on how Dems try to sell the bill. If they try to position this as a prescription drug bill, the Republicans can promise to introduce cost savings faster, while stripping out the bill’s other provisions. They can call it the Care Advancement Act or some stupid thing.
If the Dems want to sell this as a first step, Republicans can easily argue that the next step requires new ideas, one that really solves the problem. If they want to sell it as a deficit reduction, Republicans can author a deficit reduction bill.
I don’t think it’s all that difficult.
ottovbvs // Apr 2, 2010 at 1:45 pm
kevin47 // Apr 2, 2010 at 1:29 pm
“I don’t think it’s all that difficult”
…….So why are Republicans all over the board from De Mint, who along with 15 others, has moved a motion for repeal; to Corker who says get real this is never being repealed…..and a fair number in between seem to be in hiding?
Go Dog Go! // Apr 2, 2010 at 11:23 pm
I don’t like this post’s position of supporting the “double game” of repeal, AT ALL:
Supporting their public statements, regardless of how completely ridiculous the notion of repeal may be, is small-time tactical thinking. It’s exactly this kind of position — putting political tactics before sound strategic policy-making — that got this party in the hole that it’s in. Perpetuating these methods may placate the right-wing with a populist message but it achieves nothing.
The truly effective tack is a more painful but necessary strategic change: CONFRONT those who suggest they’ll repeal it with the reality of its impossibility. The fact is, conservatives will never, ever hit their policy targets until moderate, pragmatic engagement on the issues returns to the political quiver. We can not perpetuate the same small-minded, right-wing tactical “double gaming” and expect to achieve the broad strategic gains for which we need.
Rip the band aid off. Quit the juice cold turkey. Change the methods to the madness!
kevin47 // Apr 3, 2010 at 12:23 am
“So why are Republicans all over the board from De Mint, who along with 15 others, has moved a motion for repeal; to Corker who says get real this is never being repealed”
Egad, what a sentence. I think you are asking why, if repeal is such a slam dunk, Republicans are divided on the issue. I’ll respond accordingly.
I think it is fine that Republicans are divided on it, because there in no real need for unity right now. If, come August, Republicans are still debating the repeal issue, there will be a problem.
“Supporting their public statements, regardless of how completely ridiculous the notion of repeal may be, is small-time tactical thinking.”
Okay.
“It’s exactly this kind of position — putting political tactics before sound strategic policy-making — that got this party in the hole that it’s in.”
I completely agree, thus far…
“Perpetuating these methods may placate the right-wing with a populist message but it achieves nothing.”
You contradicted yourself. Placating the right-wing isn’t nothing, it’s placating. Consider this. How often do you use the word “placate” outside of a political setting? With respect to in-laws, perhaps?
“The truly effective tack is a more painful but necessary strategic change: CONFRONT those who suggest they’ll repeal it with the reality of its impossibility.”
Why will this be more effective than simply floating the “repeal” concept, then modifying it down the road?
“The fact is, conservatives will never, ever hit their policy targets until moderate, pragmatic engagement on the issues returns to the political quiver.”
What does this pragmatic engagement look like? John McCain was the alleged avatar for pragmatic conservatism. He didn’t catch on, with or without Sarah Palin.
“We can not perpetuate the same small-minded, right-wing tactical “double gaming” and expect to achieve the broad strategic gains for which we need.”
For which strategic gains to we need?
“Rip the band aid off. Quit the juice cold turkey. Change the methods to the madness!”
How so?
Rip the band aid off. Quit the juice cold turkey. Change the methods to the madness!
ottovbvs // Apr 3, 2010 at 9:22 am
kevin47 // Apr 3, 2010 at 12:23 am
“I don’t think it’s all that difficult”
“Egad, what a sentence. I think you are asking why, if repeal is such a slam dunk, Republicans are divided on the issue. I’ll respond accordingly.
“I think it is fine that Republicans are divided on it, because there in no real need for unity right now. If, come August, Republicans are still debating the repeal issue, there will be a problem.”
…………So your answer is: YES they are all over the board now but somehow they’ll fix it and if they don’t there will be a problem…….err…..despite saying you were going to, you don’t actually explain HOW THEY FIX IT
…………You then mix in a lot of stuff that wasn’t part my comment…..Egad comprehension seems to be a problem here
sinz54 // Apr 3, 2010 at 12:52 pm
pre-Reaganite: Sinz, you have not in the slightest proven that double dealing is less possible due to the cable tv idiocy. Look at the explosive currency that Palin’s flat-out lie on “death panels” got.
That was not double-dealing.
AFAIK, Sarah Palin never went to talk to some other audiences where she assured them that “death panels” weren’t really in the bill.
She really believed it. And she has a reason for her to believe it: When she revealed that her son Trig had Down’s Syndrome and yet she chose to carry the pregnancy to term, a number of very very nasty ostensibly liberal women said she should have aborted Trig rather than bring him into the world.
You tell a mom that her son didn’t deserve to be born, you suffer the consequences.
ottovbvs // Apr 3, 2010 at 2:13 pm
sinz54 // Apr 3, 2010 at 12:52 pm
“That was not double-dealing…….She really believed it…….. a number of very very nasty ostensibly liberal women said she should have aborted Trig rather than bring him into the world.”
……And this in your “intelligent” opinion constituted a Democratic plan to establish “death panels” as part of their HCR legislation?……and Grassley he really believed it too did he………who were the very nasty liberal women who threatened him”……at times Sinz even if you’re not completely stupid you do a hell of an imitation.