GOP Debate: Questions For The Field

June 12th, 2011 at 11:57 pm David Frum | 72 Comments |

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Tonight, seven Republicans will appear before the CNN cameras in the largest GOP 2012 presidential debate to date. FrumForum suggests some questions for the candidates.

Bachmann: “This weekend you told Steve Moore of the Wall Street Journal that you read Ludwig von Mises on the beach. Which of Mises’ ideas seem to you most relevant to our present economic problems?”

Pawlenty: “Does it bother you that fewer Minnesotans had health insurance at the end of your governorship than at the start?”

Paul: “How is it libertarian for government to fix the dollar price of gold rather than allow that price to be determined in a free market?”

Romney: “You were born rich and have become even richer. In your speeches you praise corporate CEOs. Your closest advisers and most important supporters are all multi-millionaires. You supported TARP, but opposed action to rescue auto jobs. How can you possibly understand or advance the concerns of ordinary American families?”

Santorum: “You say that when government provides health care it ‘takes away our freedom.’ When you voted to add prescription drug coverage to Medicare, were you voting to ‘take away our freedom’?”

Cain: “Why is your pizza so god-awful?”

Gingrich: “You and Nancy Pelosi together vowed in this video to demand action to solve climate change. What steps did the two of you take? How would you assess the success of your Gingrich-Pelosi initiative?”

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72 Comments so far ↓

  • PatrickQuint

    After Herman Cain admitted that he didn’t know what “right of return” meant I thought you’d want to hammer him on Israel policy. Could this be change of priorities?

    …Okay, probably not.

    • Bunker555

      Right of return: inalienable and basic human right, whose applicability both generally and specifically to the Palestinians is protected under international law. Hope this helps.

      • Carney

        So all 1 million Jews that were forced to flee Arab lands post 1948 should be imposed back on their former host countries?

        Oh, yeah, this isn’t an issue because:

        1) The victims involved were Jews

        2) The Jews involved have moved forward in their lives instead of wasting decades wallowing in bitterness and revenge fantasies;

        3) Nobody is seeking to preserve, fan, and exploit such bitterness to distract from domestic failure or as part of an agenda of destroying a nation or people.

        The Arabs have a landmass the size of North America to live in, from Morocco to Oman, from Syria to Sudan, most of it far from their historic homeland in the Arabian peninsula. The Jews just want to be left alone in an area the size of Vermont, in their historic homeland. But oh no, can’t let that happen. Must badger and hound and pester them to become overwhelmed with Arabs even there, even as the rest of the Arab world, including the “West Bank” and Gaza, become systematically ethnically cleansed and officially judenfrei.

  • pnwguy

    David:

    All good questions – contrary to held positions, and no “gotcha” ones like “what have you seen so far today?” :-)

    I wish our political debates were actual DEBATES, where the participants could actually ask questions and have a dialog together that showed their differences. The panel forums are so ridiculously shallow and they seldom get past talking points.

  • TJ Parker

    Frum, you’re never gonna earn one of those coveted spots as a Fox News Correspondent with questions like that. First, your questions have to allow the candidate to contrast his or her position with that of Obama. Second, you have to throw in a couple G.O.P. hot button issues: same-sex marriage, incandescent light bulbs, Ryan’s balls and Weiner’s wiener. The debate is meant to introduce the candidates to the base, and remind the base of the issues that they care about, what touches their lives and threatens their families.

    Von Mises on the beach! Gimme a break. I’d like to see proof of that. Give her a page and ask her to read it aloud.

    • oldgal

      Although I have to admit I have been waiting for someone to ask Ginrich which one of his marriages he considers the most sacred.

  • TJ Parker

    Cain: “Why is your pizza so god-awful?”

    Much like G.O.P. politics: its only as good as it needs to be. You’re deluding yourself if you think that people will only swallow the best. String cheese proves that people will eat almost any sh!t.

    • Bunker555

      +1 TJ Parker

      • balconesfault

        I went googling for local Godfather’s Pizza franchises. The closest I could find were on military bases down in San Antonio.

        Great. So Godfathers won the franchise with AAFCES – meaning young servicemen and women who have no other choices (since its often difficult to leave base) are stuck eating Cain’s cardboard thanks to our procurement processes. There’s some kind of metaphor at work here.

  • politicalfan

    1. What is your plan to put people back to work?
    2. Is it important for both parties to put aside partisan battles to move the country forward?
    3. Is it important to help those in need (why and how)?

  • Pavonis

    Ooh, I have one:

    “Corporations are currently posting record profits while the job market is still anemic. Why does this not disprove supply-side economics?”

    And another:

    “Suppose that empirical evidence shows without doubt that larger government is more efficient and cheaper in a given field – such as medicine, education, or defense. Would you support expanding the government in those areas or would you require taxpayers to incur greater expenses to receive those services through the private sector?”

  • Discharged

    1. Show of hands . . . Do you believe waterboarding is torture?

    2. Do you believe employer-sponsored health insurance is the best possible system? If so, why? (Or, is there an alternative model for health coverage not tied to employment that would have worked better if we could go back 70- 80 years and start all over again?)

    3. Many if not most respected economists discredit the applicabilty of the Laffer curve at the current tax rates. Do you honestly believe lowering tax rates further will increase revenue (or be revenue neutral?) If so, how low can the top individual rates go before tax cuts will stop being beneficial? . . . 28% . . . . 11%? . . . 8%? (I’m pretty sure the answer has to be something above zero % for the math to work.) Do you believe the Bush tax cuts achieved the results intended?

    • medinnus

      Follow-up to #1

      If you do not think waterboarding is torture, would you be willing to undergo it yourself?

      Are you aware that no proponents who deny waterboarding isn’t torture have volunteered to undergo it themselves?

      Are you aware that everyone who has undergone it considers it torture, including ex-Special Forces who underwent it as part of their SERE training?

  • Moderate

    Here are some questions I’d ask:

    Pawlenty: “If Gov. Rick Perry enters the race, please explain to Republican voters how he does not Pareto dominate you.”

    Romney: “Do you believe that your health care legislation improved life for the citizens of Massachusetts? If your answer is yes, arguments of federalism aside, do you believe that a large-scale nationwide version would improve life for all Americans?”

    Cain: “Recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can’t locate the U.S. on a world map. Why do you think this is?”

  • shellywilson12

    I have read somewhere on the news that something like “Penny Health Insurance” is offering lowest health insurance rate for low and middle income families so search online and find them.

  • SteveT

    I have only one question:

    Why when the vast majority of Americans are worried about jobs, loss of property value and the economy in general does the GOP care about the debt and ONLY the debt?

    As a follow up:

    We’ve had a large debt for many decades, why is it suddenly something that has to be dealt with right now? Why has no GOP politician aggressively mentioned it until Obama became President?

  • balconesfault

    Ludwig von Mises on the beach…

    What an awesome name for a musical!

    • pnwguy

      balconesfault:

      Ludwig von Mises on the beach…

      What an awesome name for a musical!

      As opposed to an awesome name for a new cocktail? Maybe for an Austrian drink, you just make it ALL schnapps and skip the vodka and juices.

    • cporet

      Oh my!

  • mlindroo

    I think I can imagine the answers to some of Frum’s supposedly “tricky” questions…

    ————————————————————————————————————–
    Bachmann: “This weekend you told Steve Moore of the Wall Street Journal that you read Ludwig von Mises on the beach. Which of Mises’ ideas seem to you most relevant to our present economic problems?”

    A: [silently thinking 'damn! Wish I had read that summary of the von Mises book after all...' ]. After reading the book, I am more convinced than ever that we should reduce taxes on business and the so-called wealthy while reducing the size and scope of the nanny state. The government should stop interfering with free enterprise, e.g. new troublesome regulation hampering the oil industry and Wall Street should be repealed.

    Pawlenty: “Does it bother you that fewer Minnesotans had health insurance at the end of your governorship than at the start?”

    A: No, because in Minnesota the necessity of health insurance is a matter consumer decision whereas in Massachusetts under Obamamneycare, unelected bureaucrats force everybody to buy insurance. Besides, as Reagan pointed out already in 1961, universal health care is just another word for socialized medicine anyway.

    Romney: “You were born rich and have become even richer. In your speeches you praise corporate CEOs. Your closest advisers and most important supporters are all multi-millionaires. You supported TARP, but opposed action to rescue auto jobs. How can you possibly understand or advance the concerns of ordinary American families?”

    A: The Left wrongly believes class is related to income. The division is actually related to cultural issues. “Ordinary American families” are patriots, deeply religious, always vote Republican and they instinctively understand the value of hard work and capitalism. Besides, like “ordinary American families” I also go to NASCAR races and I no longer wear a business suit on the campaign trail.

    ————————————————————————————————————–

    Or something like that. One characteristic of modern Republicanism is the ability to trot out rote answers and sound bites in response to highly complicated issues. E.g. there is no easy ideological solution to the global debt crisis … everyone from left-wing Greece to right-wing Ireland has serious problems nowadays but you would never know that listening to GOP politicians.

    MARCU$

  • TerryF98

    Romney.

    Why did you strap the family dog to the roof of the car when you went on vacation?

    • Carney

      Romney’s answer:

      What you carefully and deliberately misleadingly did not mention is that the dog was in a dog carrier, and the carrier was protected from the wind by a windbreak I made myself. Not only was the dog safe, the dog loved it. Any dog owner knows dogs love to be able to smell the outdoor air as they ride in a car.

      Much more importantly, at the end the day, who cares?

      It’s the one arguably wacky thing that I, the ultimate square, the classic straight-arrow whitebread all-American Eagle Scout, have ever done in my entire life. If I, Mitt Romney, am telling you to relax and not be so uptight, you have a serious problem.

      • TerryF98

        So Mr Romney your answer is that its fine to strap a dog to your roof rack then drive hundreds of miles. Even though any Veterinarian would disagree, even though any animal lover would not do such a completely dumb and dangerous thing.

        Do you have good judgment Mr Romney?

  • TerryF98

    Romney.

    You have to believe some amazingly weird stuff to be a Mormon. Things that other people would find incredible and totally unbelievable. How does this effect your ability to discern truth from total fiction and how would you be able to make decisions based on facts and logic?

    • Carney

      Romney’s answer

      Any faith, no matter how mainstream, can have its more challenging or distinctive elements be described, in a scornful tone, to those unfamiliar with it, to make it seem outlandish and bizarre.

      Eating bread undetectably turned into God’s flesh and drinking wine undetectably turned into God’s blood? The Son of God, who is also God, dying to earn God’s forgiveness for everyone else’s sins?

      There have been plenty of sober, reliable, rational leaders, including presidents, of deep Nicene Creed Christian faith. And as many can attest, many equally devout Mormons with a solid grounding in common sense and a firm grip on objective reality who have served ably and well as leaders in science, commerce, and public service, among them my own father.

      • TerryF98

        So what you are saying Mr Romney is that all faiths are full of bat shit crazy people believing the most unbelievable BS and that your ability to believe even weirder BS in no way makes you unfit for high office.

        Are those magic underpants comfortable by the way?

    • medinnus

      The LDS faith is no more “whacko” in its beliefs than any other religion, really…

  • TerryF98

    Romney.

    In your days at Bain you took over American companies, stripped their assets, sacked the workers and sold them often to overseas interests.

    Can you explain how this “business experience” makes you better able to bring back jobs to this country?

    • Carney

      Romney’s answer:

      Not all companies are viable forever. Some companies were simply beyond saving.

      All you can do in that case is to do the best you can to limit your losses and extract what value is left before that too vanishes. What you are suggesting is to keep money-losing operations going indefinitely to buy political popularity, and let those who entrusted you with their risk capital, their savings, their dreams for the future that they put into a company, go down the drain. That’s not a path to prosperity in the long run and overall. Sometimes what must be done is painful in the short run. I think voters are looking for someone with the guts and will to shut down failing operations in government.

      But if a doctor loses too many patients, he won’t be in demand. Instead, there were many companies I could and did save and turn around, with not only spectacular gains for my clients and, incidentally tremendous net gains in employment as well. That’s why I became a renowned and sought-after turnaround consultant.

      That’s why Bain itself asked me back after my departure, and I duly turned it around. That’s why the Salt Lake City Olympics came to me to ask me to help turn around their dire situation. That’s why the voters of Massachusetts honored me by asking me to turn around their serious fiscal problems as their governor. And that’s why so many are rallying behind my campaign for president – we need a turnaround, not only in the federal government, but as a nation.

      • TerryF98

        So what you are saying Mr Romney is that it is perfectly acceptable to ship jobs overseas. It is perfectly acceptable for Wall Street asset strippers like you to ship off the very machinery that forms the basis for manufacturing jobs in the USA.

        It’s perfectly acceptable to close good US companies for your own personal profit. And you expect the American people to trust you with the economy!

  • MurrayAbraham

    Who’s been designated to watch the debate? I hope it’s not me.

  • tommybones

    The more important question, always missing, is the FOLLOW-UP question.

  • Houndentenor

    For all candidates: do you promise to reduce federal spending? If so, which programs do you plan to cut and by how much? Please give five specific examples with dollar amounts. This question should be given in advance so that candidates have time to have their staff do the homework.

  • balconesfault

    Which number do you believe comes closer to describing the age of the planet earth?
    A) 4.5 billion years
    B) 8,000 years

  • zephae

    For all candidates: All of you claim to be principled people, but many times the interests and policy problems of the country don’t lend themselves to an easy application of principle. As president, would you be willing or able to support and stand by a policy that appears to compromise your principles if it is in the best interests of the country?

  • indy

    Would you sign the Ryan plan in its current form? If not, what specific changes would you request?

    Ah, I love imaginary world where questions are really answered instead of the real world where answers are given to imaginary questions.

  • ditka

    Here’s a question. Was Ronald Reagan wrong to support increasing taxes on Social Security?

    Cain – you ran a pizza chain that employed no illegal workers, where was it located? Fantasy Island?

  • valkayec

    Actually, no matter what the questions are, the answers will always be rote, simplistic sound bites and spin. Answering the real questions will not be a feature of the debate; promoting oneself through 2 sentence promotions will. As a CNBC reporter said this morning, no one on Wall St. will be watching. Neither shall I. What was that Shakespeare line: “All sound and fury (bluster?), signifying nothing.”

  • ditka

    Here are a few more – Why has our influence in South America been declining since the early 2000′s?

    Why was Gary Johnson excluded from the debate?

    Are people born gay? If not, why would someone choose to be gay?

  • HighCountry

    Too bad that virtually none of these questions will actually be asked.

  • CentristNYer

    1. Do you think the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell should be blocked, even though it’s been endorsed by the Secretary of Defense, the Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and a majority of Americans?

    2. Do you consider Colin Powell a RINO?

    3. Would you feel comfortable putting Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the nuclear button?

  • Deep South Populist

    All Candidates:

    Given the unemployment situation, why don’t you support a complete moratorium on H1B visas and immigration into the United States?

    • Carney

      +1 DSP

    • armstp

      DSP

      -2

      Do you know who usually gets H1B visas? They are given to foreigns who have special skill sets that you cannot find in the U.S. So if you get rid of these H1B visas who is going to do the say engineering jobs that they cannot find someone in the U.S. to do? Will this not help shrink the economy if we cannot get the expertise in this country we need in order to build the economy? Why do you think corporations actually want the U.S. to give out more H1B visas?

      • P Henry

        @ARMSTP
        “Why do you think corporations actually want the U.S. to give out more H1B visas?”
        They want more H1B visa’s because these foreign indentured servants will accept much less pay than an American would. Why have wages declined in these fields if there’s a shortage?

        DSP +3

        • ottovbvs

          They want more H1B visa’s because these foreign indentured servants will accept much less pay than an American would.

          Hi mastermind. What make you think that if Microsoft, Cisco, General Motors, Cynergis, Johnson and Johnson employ a highly qualified employee that they are paid much less than a US employeee. So this Indian or Chinese who goes to work in Microsoft in Seattle has to live in a doghouse with his family because according to you he’s an indentured slave and only being paid a fraction of the income of his fellow but American workers? Do you actually have any experience or real knowledge of this situation or are just shooting off a very large fat mouth?

        • Russnet

          Approval of an H-1B visa is conditioned on the Dep’t of Labor’s approval of a preliminary Labor Condition Application wherein the U.S. employer offering the job to the foreigner attests to payment of a wage or salary that is no less than the minimum prevailing wage in the region where the job is offered. H-1Bs do not harm working conditions for American workers, or the economy.

    • elizajane

      Great idea! Keep all the smart, highly-skilled people out of our country! That will really help our long-term growth prospects.

      Where did you come up with this ridiculous idea? Of all anti-immigration measures, this would be the worst.

      • P Henry

        The only problem is that they aren’t “highly-skilled”. The only skill the vast majority of them possess is a willingness to accept slave wages. I’ll repeat my question to you about this visa. IF THERE IS A SHORTAGE, WHY HAVE WAGES DECLINED SINCE THE INCEPTION OF THE H-1B VISA?

        • Russnet

          oops, see below. misfire.

        • Russnet

          P Henry, sorry, you’re wrong here. The H-1B is only for specialty occupations, generally requiring a four-year college degree. Job must require a four year degree, and foreign employee must possess that degree in the field. Labor Condition Application requires payments of minimum prevailing wage. 65,000 H-1B visas granted each fiscal year, a blip in the overall job market. Further, I’d argue some of the greatest entrepreneurial growth witnessed over the last twenty years in the U.S. was fueled by IT workers from India and Asia, spurring widespread productivity gains throughout the U.S. economy. Think again, batman.

  • chicago_guy

    Since the institution of supply side economic theory in 1980s, incomes for working families have fallen, budget deficits in Washington have exploded, and and disparity between those in the top 2% and every one else in the country has grown to levels not seen since the 1920s.

    That being the case, how can you still cling to a theory that has proved so dangerous to the country’s economy?

  • Carney

    Why has our influence in South America been declining since the early 2000’s?

    Because Venezuelan oil money has funded and greatly expanded a viper’s nest of anti-American extremist movements. Because the brutal OPEC tax on the entire rest of the world falls most heavily on the poor, leaving them vulnerable to demagogues.

    We need to kick away the keystone of the arch of world anti-Americanism, which is oil’s monopoly over world transportation. We can’t affect OPEC’s domination of oil, but we can end that domination’s ability to be a source of enormous wealth for OPEC and imposed hardship for everyone else. The easiest solution to that is to mandate that all new gasoline cars sold in America be fully flex fueled, able to run not just on gasoline but also on any alcohol fuel especially ethanol and methanol.

    Why was Gary Johnson excluded from the debate?

    1 I don’t run the debate
    2. He’s a crackpot. Who let Ron Paul in?

    Are people born gay? If not, why would someone choose to be gay?

    Those who claim a genetic influence on homosexuality have an extremely difficult burden in explaining how such a trait which in Darwinian terms is obviously catastrophically maladaptive, would not be aggressively weeded out of the gene pool in short order. The “helpful gay uncle” hypothesis has been proven empirically false.

    They must also explain away the high proportion of those who talk about having been exposed to adult material, seduced, or even abused early in life (thus making it a meme), or who had severe psychological issues such as very difficult relationships with their same-sex parent, etc.

    Even if there is a genetic component, it’s likely in that case that there is a spectrum of level of genetic influence, with some people capable of ending up on either side of the fence depending on environmental influence, such as life experience.

    Since your question presumes a greater desirability of being heterosexual, you must then agree that we should structure our society so as to “push” those on the fence toward the hetero side, rather than continue to work toward making either option equally desirable and consequence-free.

    I am also interested to see if those insistent on “gay gene” determinism are willing to look at and fully follow the implications wherever they may lead on other issues such as crime and IQ.

    • ditka

      If you really believe in the power of ethanol and flex fuel cars, then you should not be so quick to throw out the crackpot lable.

      • Carney

        What’s crackpot about them? Ethanol and flex fuel cars exist; they’re a physical reality. More than 2,400 stations sell E85 ethanol, up from only 50 in 2001. Dozens of makes and models of FFVs are available from most mainstream automakers at no price premium over gasoline-only models, and millions of FFVs are on the road. The main thing holding it all back is that alcohol compatibility is not a standard feature; that would finally break through the network effects that marginalize alcohol today.

        And what’s your alternative?

        Drill Baby Drill? There’s nothing TO drill; we have less than2% of world oil reserves including Arctic and offshore while OPEC has more than 78%.

        Increased fuel economy? OPEC can match any reduction in our consumption by cutting production to spike the per-unit price, ensuring we pay as much for less fuel as we used to for more fuel.

    • ottovbvs

      Carney, you’re often a bit of a preposterous twit but this little homily on homosexuality is a beaut even by your standards.

  • Rob_654

    Dang – those would be great questions to hear asked – but alas, I am thinking that we will just get the talking point questions.

  • LFC

    balconesfault said… I went googling for local Godfather’s Pizza franchises. The closest I could find were on military bases down in San Antonio.

    I see it’s at McGuire AFB in NJ as well. Gotta’ love these free market types that succeed off of government contracts.

  • LFC

    Are people born gay? If not, why would someone choose to be gay?

    Carney answered… Those who claim a genetic influence on homosexuality have an extremely difficult burden in explaining how such a trait which in Darwinian terms is obviously catastrophically maladaptive, would not be aggressively weeded out of the gene pool in short order.

    Studies answered this years ago. The genetic combination found was not one that specifically made men gay but rather produced a strong attraction to males. This combination appears in both men and women, and women who have it reproduce hence continuing the trait. An interesting note in the study I read was that the women with this gene combination actually averaged more children than those without. It was not “weeded out” because it actually produces more offspring, though some are gay men who fail to reproduce. Understanding this is key.

    They must also explain away the high proportion of those who talk about having been exposed to adult material, seduced, or even abused early in life (thus making it a meme), or who had severe psychological issues such as very difficult relationships with their same-sex parent, etc.

    Do you have any links to real studies that show that this is more prevalent among gay men than other segments of the population? How about any that show any change as being gay has become less stigmatized over time?

    Even if there is a genetic component, it’s likely in that case that there is a spectrum of level of genetic influence, with some people capable of ending up on either side of the fence depending on environmental influence, such as life experience.

    What do you base your statement of it being “likely” on? Sounds like something you simply made up. Have you ever actually knowingly spoken to a gay person. I have multiple gay friends and all but one has told me that they knew there were gay well before they ever hit puberty. The one exception figured it out in high school.

    Interestingly, I’ve read surveys about lesbianism that show that it may actually be more “flexible”.

    Since your question presumes a greater desirability of being heterosexual, you must then agree that we should structure our society so as to “push” those on the fence toward the hetero side, rather than continue to work toward making either option equally desirable and consequence-free.

    And I would question the “greater desirability”. Society is well served by stable families, and there is no reason that a married gay couple can be the basis for a stable family.

    I am also interested to see if those insistent on “gay gene” determinism are willing to look at and fully follow the implications wherever they may lead on other issues such as crime and IQ.

    Not sure how this fits. We have stigmatized being gay. Many of us feel that this stigmatization should be removed, at least as law, in order to benefit both them and society as a whole. So what if somebody’s DNA shows that they are less likely to be “smart”? If we knew that, what would we do differently? Ditto for DNA that shows that would be more likely to commit a crime. I don’t know how allowing people to form legal gay marriages ties to the other two.

  • Frumplestiltskin

    “Given the unemployment situation, why don’t you support a complete moratorium on H1B visas and immigration into the United States?”

    Are you a petroleum engineer DSP? Do you know how many petroleum engineers the US graduates each year? Do you know how many we need?

    In addition, do you have any idea how many Americans live abroad and work? Do you want all of them to be forced to return to the US in retaliation? I have spent the past 15 years abroad, are you stating that I have no right to? So, according to you, I must come home and be unemployed and have my children starve because of your own xenophobia?

    • Deep South Populist

      There is more than enough engineering talent available domestically to meet the country’s needs for high tech workers. As long as there is 1 or more unemployed native engineers in this country, there is no chance anyone will budge me on the H1B visa issue.

      I think you know I have no ill will toward your family. You have tenure anyway, don’t you? Between that and your language expertise which can probably get you employed anywhere in the world inside or outside Academia, you are more secure than most, and certainly more secure than me. I have kids too. My business has taken a hit the last few years because of the economy. Massive unemployment among Americans decreases the pool of people who can afford my services.

      • ottovbvs

        There is more than enough engineering talent available domestically to meet the country’s needs for high tech workers.

        Do you have any numbers to back up this assertion or is it just another one of your assertions I can tell you from personal experience there isn’t. Or even if there is it doesn’t necessarily want to move from California or the east coast to the midwest. You are truly so clueless. Only yesterday you were happily pointing out the role of second half 19th century protectionism in jump starting the US economy’s ascent to world domination but at the same time millions of immigrants were pouring into the US which was a much more important factor in this process.

        • Deep South Populist

          Immigration harms Americans at all skill levels.

          Unfortunately, the GOP wants their cheap labor, and the Democrats want their cheap votes, so nothing will ever be done about it.

          H1Bs are a sop to big business with a rationale based on lies. Along with offshoring and outsourcing, the H1b practice binds skilled American workers in a double-pincer movement (jobs out, non-Americans in). Again, there are plenty of American engineers who need those jobs and can do those jobs. Just about every university in the country produces engineering graduates. The US government stood by and let the manufacturing jobs disappear, and now they’re standing by and watching the high tech jobs disappear too.

          China, India, Japan and Korea get by fine and produce quality technical products without substantial immigration or an a H1B equivalent. How about you explain that big guy? Their countries don’t have fools in high places.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa#No_labor_shortages

        • ottovbvs

          Unfortunately, the GOP wants their cheap labor, and the Democrats want their cheap votes, so nothing will ever be done about it.

          So you don’t actually have any data…it is just assertion and few non sequitur comparisons with other countries. And you demonstrate your ignorance by mentioning China where it’s relatively easy for Americans to enter and work and in my experience the place is full of Americans; and apparently you think H 1B visa holders get to vote.

        • hireamerican

          Most projects are riddled with these kinds of deals…

          http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/01/company-involved-in-payroll-project-shuts-down/

          And you would think Mayor bloomberg would have learnt lesson after all that fraud that happened under his nose….

          http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/nri/visa-and-immigration/remove-cap-on-h1b-visa-and-green-card-new-york-mayor/articleshow/8872517.cms

        • hireamerican

          There is absolutely no need for numbers…for those of us who work in IT, we can see it. We are completely aurrounded by H1bs at work. The H1bs do very low skilled work including admin assistant work.

    • ottovbvs

      “In addition, do you have any idea how many Americans live abroad and work?”

      Europe, the middle east, Africa and China are full of American expats (I’m sure the same is true of South America and Asia generally but I can’t speak from sufficient personal experience). These idiots are in some kind of 19th century time warp (minus the immigration to the US of course). They think 18th and 19th century economic autarky is a viable strategy for the world’s greatest economic power in a 21st century world. It defies belief but these mindsets clearly exist on left and right.

  • P Henry

    How come none of you will mention outsourcing and\or the H-1B slave visa as the reason for American job loss? Is it because of the money coming into your campaign from the corporations that benefit from these abhorrent practices?

  • jake_leone

    The U.S. visa system is heavily abused by companies whose sole purpose is to remove jobs from the U.S. economy, and send them overseas.

    The U.S. visa system is being gamed by outsourcing companies. The B-1 and L-1 visa allow companies to bring foreign workers at sub-minimum wage. The H-1b visa allows companies to hire foreign workers, without even considering a U.S. citizen. A foreign worker may be hired in the United States, to replace a U.S. citizen, even if the U.S. citizen is better qualified and is willing for work for less money. All 3 of these Visas allow companies to keep the workers on leash, basically it is legalized slavery.

    For a company such as InfoSys, nothing is more convenient than having a worker from India in the United States on a leash. And that one engineer can learn every job in a department, and then ship the whole department overseas.

    InfoSys has touted that it had 2000 U.S. citizens in its workforce. But only recently InfoSys was forced to admit that it had more than 12,000 workers currently in the United States on a visa (H-1b, B-1, or L-1). This means that in order to hire even 1 U.S. citizen worker, InfoSys must displace 4-5 U.S. citizens.

    Our visa system has become a nexus for discrimination and job-loss. No country on this Earth (except the United States apparently) would allow such an awful situation to exist, or even come into being.

  • PatrickQuint

    LFC: “So what if somebody’s DNA shows that they are less likely to be “smart”? If we knew that, what would we do differently? Ditto for DNA that shows that would be more likely to commit a crime. I don’t know how allowing people to form legal gay marriages ties to the other two.”

    The risk is that those with good “smart” genes will have better job opportunities because of it, and other candidates rejected for having bad genes. Resumes get accepted or rejected for more trivial reasons.

    The risk with regard to genes linked to criminality is that such people would be profiled by the criminal justice system. For instance, crime genes might be used as circumstantial evidence against a defendant in court. A lack of crime genes can and would be used by the defense. Genes would be like a character witness.

  • ottovbvs

    Because Venezuelan oil money has funded and greatly expanded a viper’s nest of anti-American extremist movements.

    I’m always amused by the extent of your ignorance Carney. The OAS (know what that is Carney?) which is composed of all the governments in Latin America turned it’s back on the US in the Bush era for a variety of reasons. We’ve propped up repressive dictators for years, we’ve funded right wing death squads that have killed thousands including Americans btw, we invaded Iraq for no reason, we’re blatantly anti hispanic, so to the extent that Chavez stirred up trouble he had plenty to work with and it was entirely of our own making.

  • Deep South Populist

    ottovbvs: “So you don’t actually have any data…it is just assertion and few non sequitur comparisons with other countries. And you demonstrate your ignorance by mentioning China where it’s relatively easy for Americans to enter and work and in my experience the place is full of Americans; and apparently you think H 1B visa holders get to vote.”

    Wikipedia’s entry on the H1B visa program has links to some data in the conspicuously named section “No Labor Shortage.” Here are some highlights. Note the comment from Dick Durbin.

    -

    Matloff’s paper for the University of Michigan Journal of Law Reform claims that there has been no shortage of qualified American citizens to fill American computer-related jobs, and that the data offered as evidence of American corporations needing H-1B visas to address labor shortages was erroneous.[24] The United States General Accounting Office found in a report in 2000 that controls on the H-1B program lacked effectiveness.[25] The GAO report’s recommendations were subsequently implemented. High-tech companies often cite a tech-worker shortage when asking Congress to raise the 65,000 annual cap on H-1B visas, but according to a study conducted by John Miano and the Center for Immigration Studies there is no empirical data to support that claim.[26] Citing studies done at Duke, Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, Georgetown University and others, critics have also argued that in some years, the number of foreign programmers and engineers imported outnumbered the number of jobs created by the industry.[27] Organizations have also posted hundreds of first hand accounts of H1-B Visa Harm reports directly from individuals negatively impacted by the program, many of whom are willing to speak with the media.[28]

    Senator Dick Durban stated “The H-1B visa job lasts for 3 years and can be renewed for 3 years. What happens to those workers after that? Well, they could stay. It is possible. But these new companies have a much better idea for making money. They send the engineers to America to fill spots–and get money to do it–and then after the 3 to 6 years, they bring them back to work for the companies that are competing with American companies. They call it their outsourcing visa. They are sending their talented engineers to learn how Americans do business and then bring them back and compete with those American companies.”[48]