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	<title>Comments on: Generation Obama Gets Shafted</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/generation-obama-gets-shafted</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: hormelmeatco</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/generation-obama-gets-shafted/comment-page-1#comment-74248</link>
		<dc:creator>hormelmeatco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16589#comment-74248</guid>
		<description>Balconesfault: I&#039;d be in complete favor a war tax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Balconesfault: I&#8217;d be in complete favor a war tax.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin B</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/generation-obama-gets-shafted/comment-page-1#comment-74229</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16589#comment-74229</guid>
		<description>&quot;Hey, hey LBJ, how many kids have you killed today?&quot;

How could you forget that iconic chant of the anti-war movement?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Hey, hey LBJ, how many kids have you killed today?&#8221;</p>
<p>How could you forget that iconic chant of the anti-war movement?</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/generation-obama-gets-shafted/comment-page-1#comment-74225</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16589#comment-74225</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;You Democrats had no trouble denouncing Nixon over Vietnam. You called him a war criminal, etc.&lt;/b&gt;

Well, I think he was denounced as a war criminal for certain things that were ... well, criminal - and not simply for continuing the war.  When Obama has his own Operation Menu, you can call him a war criminal as well.  We certainly will be.

&lt;b&gt;To the degree that when you talk about Vietnam, you never mention the roles played by JFK and LBJ in escalating the war. &lt;/b&gt;

I don&#039;t know any Democrats who don&#039;t talk about LBJ&#039;s role, in particular, in escalating the war.  Hell, it&#039;s the primary reason he wasn&#039;t a 2-term President.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You Democrats had no trouble denouncing Nixon over Vietnam. You called him a war criminal, etc.</p>
<p>Well, I think he was denounced as a war criminal for certain things that were &#8230; well, criminal &#8211; and not simply for continuing the war.  When Obama has his own Operation Menu, you can call him a war criminal as well.  We certainly will be.</p>
<p>To the degree that when you talk about Vietnam, you never mention the roles played by JFK and LBJ in escalating the war. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know any Democrats who don&#8217;t talk about LBJ&#8217;s role, in particular, in escalating the war.  Hell, it&#8217;s the primary reason he wasn&#8217;t a 2-term President.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/generation-obama-gets-shafted/comment-page-1#comment-74196</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16589#comment-74196</guid>
		<description>BarryS:

Oh, one more thing.

You Democrats had no trouble denouncing Nixon over Vietnam.  You called him a war criminal, etc.

You didn&#039;t cut him any slack over the fact that it was LBJ who put the 500,000 American troops in Vietnam in the first place.

As far as you were concerned, Nixon owned Vietnam from the day he was inaugurated as President.  To the degree that when you talk about Vietnam, you never mention the roles played by JFK and LBJ in escalating the war.  In the liberal fictional history of Vietnam, the only culprits were Eisenhower and Nixon.  Right?

So don&#039;t complain now that Obama owns the Afghanistan War.  It goes with the territory.  He&#039;s Commander-in-Chief now, not some nondescript community organizer in Chicago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BarryS:</p>
<p>Oh, one more thing.</p>
<p>You Democrats had no trouble denouncing Nixon over Vietnam.  You called him a war criminal, etc.</p>
<p>You didn&#8217;t cut him any slack over the fact that it was LBJ who put the 500,000 American troops in Vietnam in the first place.</p>
<p>As far as you were concerned, Nixon owned Vietnam from the day he was inaugurated as President.  To the degree that when you talk about Vietnam, you never mention the roles played by JFK and LBJ in escalating the war.  In the liberal fictional history of Vietnam, the only culprits were Eisenhower and Nixon.  Right?</p>
<p>So don&#8217;t complain now that Obama owns the Afghanistan War.  It goes with the territory.  He&#8217;s Commander-in-Chief now, not some nondescript community organizer in Chicago.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/generation-obama-gets-shafted/comment-page-1#comment-74193</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16589#comment-74193</guid>
		<description>BarryS: &lt;blockquote&gt; I don’t believe you can just push these wars off onto the Democrats. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Obama is planning a major address to the nation next week, on his war strategy for Afghanistan.

As of next week, the Democrats own the wars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BarryS:  I don’t believe you can just push these wars off onto the Democrats.<br />
Obama is planning a major address to the nation next week, on his war strategy for Afghanistan.</p>
<p>As of next week, the Democrats own the wars.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/generation-obama-gets-shafted/comment-page-1#comment-74192</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16589#comment-74192</guid>
		<description>BarryS: &lt;blockquote&gt; I can’t imagine he thought that his presidency would start with 2 wars and a financial melt down and all the other distractions that are being thrown at him. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Oh, brother.

When Obama made his famous speech at the 2004 Dem National Convention, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were both hot issues. (&quot;I&#039;m John Kerry--reporting for duty!&quot;)  And on the day in 2007 that Obama announced his candidacy, the wars were still hot issues.  In fact, Obama characterized the Iraq War as &quot;dumb.&quot;  He knew damn well what he would be getting into.

And I reject your characterization of the financial meltdown and the wars as &quot;distractions.&quot;  Distractions from what?  Health care reform?

In case you hadn&#039;t noticed, the Constitution gives the President the job of Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces.  And the Constitution talks a whole lot about commerce too.  But it doesn&#039;t say anything about health care reform.

I argue that health care reform is the REAL &quot;distraction.&quot;  While unemployment rose over the last 6 months (and our troops have continued to die in Afghanistan), Congress has been dickering about health care reform. Don&#039;t think the voters haven&#039;t noticed.

Being Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces isn&#039;t a &quot;distraction.&quot;  It&#039;s the President&#039;s main Constitutional duty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BarryS:  I can’t imagine he thought that his presidency would start with 2 wars and a financial melt down and all the other distractions that are being thrown at him.<br />
Oh, brother.</p>
<p>When Obama made his famous speech at the 2004 Dem National Convention, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were both hot issues. (&#8220;I&#8217;m John Kerry&#8211;reporting for duty!&#8221;)  And on the day in 2007 that Obama announced his candidacy, the wars were still hot issues.  In fact, Obama characterized the Iraq War as &#8220;dumb.&#8221;  He knew damn well what he would be getting into.</p>
<p>And I reject your characterization of the financial meltdown and the wars as &#8220;distractions.&#8221;  Distractions from what?  Health care reform?</p>
<p>In case you hadn&#8217;t noticed, the Constitution gives the President the job of Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces.  And the Constitution talks a whole lot about commerce too.  But it doesn&#8217;t say anything about health care reform.</p>
<p>I argue that health care reform is the REAL &#8220;distraction.&#8221;  While unemployment rose over the last 6 months (and our troops have continued to die in Afghanistan), Congress has been dickering about health care reform. Don&#8217;t think the voters haven&#8217;t noticed.</p>
<p>Being Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces isn&#8217;t a &#8220;distraction.&#8221;  It&#8217;s the President&#8217;s main Constitutional duty.</p>
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		<title>By: mrdon</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/generation-obama-gets-shafted/comment-page-1#comment-74190</link>
		<dc:creator>mrdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16589#comment-74190</guid>
		<description>Three simple questions for young people who are offended by the notion of subsidizing the healthcare costs of seniors:

1.  Who do you think subsidized the cost of getting you to the point where you could vote and complain?  I have seen estimates that parenting a child from birth thru college costs in excess of $250,000.  Perhaps an equitable solution to the current problem would be a quit claim by seniors on the promises (Medicare) made to them in exchange for a full refund of the money they paid to raise you.

2.  Do you think you are going to maintain your current level of health for your entire life?  Guess again, jogging and macrobiotic diets will NOT stave off the afflictions of age -- no matter what you may think.

3.  How do you plan to pay the immense cost of healthcare you will incur when you get older?  Your generation has not paid any more (proportionately) in payroll taxes than the geezers you want to cut off and you have saved (proportionately) far less.  Please don&#039;t delude yourself into believing that you would be any more inclined to save the money you are seeking to have carved out of care for your parents than you have demonstrated you can save to date.  Of all the generations who could be FORCED to save for your old age, none has demonstrated a greater need for coercion than yours.  We were forced to pay for our parents care with the promise that those who succeed us that we would be similarly funded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Three simple questions for young people who are offended by the notion of subsidizing the healthcare costs of seniors:</p>
<p>1.  Who do you think subsidized the cost of getting you to the point where you could vote and complain?  I have seen estimates that parenting a child from birth thru college costs in excess of $250,000.  Perhaps an equitable solution to the current problem would be a quit claim by seniors on the promises (Medicare) made to them in exchange for a full refund of the money they paid to raise you.</p>
<p>2.  Do you think you are going to maintain your current level of health for your entire life?  Guess again, jogging and macrobiotic diets will NOT stave off the afflictions of age &#8212; no matter what you may think.</p>
<p>3.  How do you plan to pay the immense cost of healthcare you will incur when you get older?  Your generation has not paid any more (proportionately) in payroll taxes than the geezers you want to cut off and you have saved (proportionately) far less.  Please don&#8217;t delude yourself into believing that you would be any more inclined to save the money you are seeking to have carved out of care for your parents than you have demonstrated you can save to date.  Of all the generations who could be FORCED to save for your old age, none has demonstrated a greater need for coercion than yours.  We were forced to pay for our parents care with the promise that those who succeed us that we would be similarly funded.</p>
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		<title>By: DFL</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/generation-obama-gets-shafted/comment-page-1#comment-74172</link>
		<dc:creator>DFL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16589#comment-74172</guid>
		<description>I think Rep. Obey was trying to encourage Obama to show better judgment regarding the expansion of American forces in Afghanistan.   Obey was right but he seems to have failed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Rep. Obey was trying to encourage Obama to show better judgment regarding the expansion of American forces in Afghanistan.   Obey was right but he seems to have failed.</p>
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		<title>By: maf97</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/generation-obama-gets-shafted/comment-page-1#comment-74166</link>
		<dc:creator>maf97</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16589#comment-74166</guid>
		<description>&quot;I can’t imagine he thought that his presidency would start with 2 wars and a financial melt down and all the other distractions that are being thrown at him. &quot;  YAWN.

This is perhaps one of the most tiresome liberal lines there is.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were ongoing long before the election.  And long before Barry was selected to run for President.  The economic meltdown was in full swing during his campaign as well.  So it wouldn&#039;t take too much imagination to have an inkling that these events would likely still be in play even after taking the oath of office.  Of course he knew his presidency would start with 2 wars and a financial meltdown.  If he didn&#039;t want to deal with these events, if he didn&#039;t have solutions for these events, then he should have stayed home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I can’t imagine he thought that his presidency would start with 2 wars and a financial melt down and all the other distractions that are being thrown at him. &#8221;  YAWN.</p>
<p>This is perhaps one of the most tiresome liberal lines there is.</p>
<p>The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were ongoing long before the election.  And long before Barry was selected to run for President.  The economic meltdown was in full swing during his campaign as well.  So it wouldn&#8217;t take too much imagination to have an inkling that these events would likely still be in play even after taking the oath of office.  Of course he knew his presidency would start with 2 wars and a financial meltdown.  If he didn&#8217;t want to deal with these events, if he didn&#8217;t have solutions for these events, then he should have stayed home.</p>
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		<title>By: BarryS</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/generation-obama-gets-shafted/comment-page-1#comment-74156</link>
		<dc:creator>BarryS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=16589#comment-74156</guid>
		<description>Sinz,

I don&#039;t believe you can just push these wars off onto the Democrats. They did not plan them, did not really want them and were duped like the rest of us in large part. Obama has got to make the best of a terrible mess. He has no good options. I actually feel pretty sorry for the guy. I can&#039;t imagine he thought that his presidency would start with 2 wars and a financial melt down and all the other distractions that are being thrown at him. I know a President has to take it and get on with it which I think he is doing, but hey pretty sure it seems tough sometimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinz,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe you can just push these wars off onto the Democrats. They did not plan them, did not really want them and were duped like the rest of us in large part. Obama has got to make the best of a terrible mess. He has no good options. I actually feel pretty sorry for the guy. I can&#8217;t imagine he thought that his presidency would start with 2 wars and a financial melt down and all the other distractions that are being thrown at him. I know a President has to take it and get on with it which I think he is doing, but hey pretty sure it seems tough sometimes.</p>
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