Frum, Bruce Fein, and David Cole Debate “American Empire”

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• ZombieTory // Jul 14, 2010 at 9:03 pm

  I think David Cole’s response regarding equal justice for foreigners demonstrates how black a mark the military tribunal system is upon the USA’s reputation around the world. You failed to rebut the point and I’m not sure how you could have.

  Also, Fein was able to uphold the “Founding Fathers” as some magical, infallible beings. If they wrote something they must be right. This idea, frankly, precedes Ron Paul and the Tea Parties, but they’re certainly carrying it to the extreme. They were humans, flawed humans. Why can’t anyone just say that an idea isn’t necessarily right (and irrefutable) because it was held 230+ years ago.

  I stopped listening when the listener question began because I can’t stand talk radio.

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• Oldskool // Jul 14, 2010 at 11:00 pm

  American Empire; identifying the USA’s American Empire, by its international behavior, is controversial. Stuart Creighton Miller posits that the public’s sense of innocence about Realpolitik (cf. American Exceptionalism) impairs popular recognition of US imperial conduct. Since it governed other countries via surrogates — domestically-weak, right-wing governments that collapse without US support.[7] G.W. Bush’s Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said: “We don’t seek empires. We’re not imperialistic; we never have been”[8] — directly contradicts Thomas Jefferson, in the 1780s, awaiting the fall of the Spanish empire: “. . . till our population can be sufficiently advanced to gain it from them piece by piece [sic]”. Which indicates that countries goals can change over 200 years. [9][10] In turn, Leftist historian Sidney Lens notes that from its inception the US has used every means to dominate other nations.

  Her program is the highlight of my hours on the road.

  I’ve always thought we were an empire but it turns out the argument is over the definition. No matter, we have too many troops in too many places. When we argue over how cut the budget we should argue over which countries to withdraw troops from as much or more than which social programs to cut.

  Especially considering we’ve blown one or three trillion dollars on Iraq, depending on who you ask, on a war that anyone without blinders could see was entirely unecessary.

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