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	<title>Comments on: Failure To Communicate</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: dragonlady</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/failure-to-communicate/comment-page-1#comment-53163</link>
		<dc:creator>dragonlady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-53163</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s true optimism is vital to political success.  This certainly helped Obama get elected--he wasn&#039;t screaming Dean.  Until the GOP has some grown ups that can lead /channel the dissatisifaction in a positive direction, we&#039;ll stay at rock bottom. I say this as a life long conservative.  I have little faith the current party apparatus will really get us anywhere.  But perhaps, we need to be here to rebuild ourselves back into a party of relevance. I love Reagan as much as the next conservative, but times have changed--we need to make our policies relevant to the current political situation. We can do that and still stay consistent with a conservative philosophy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s true optimism is vital to political success.  This certainly helped Obama get elected&#8211;he wasn&#8217;t screaming Dean.  Until the GOP has some grown ups that can lead /channel the dissatisifaction in a positive direction, we&#8217;ll stay at rock bottom. I say this as a life long conservative.  I have little faith the current party apparatus will really get us anywhere.  But perhaps, we need to be here to rebuild ourselves back into a party of relevance. I love Reagan as much as the next conservative, but times have changed&#8211;we need to make our policies relevant to the current political situation. We can do that and still stay consistent with a conservative philosophy.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/failure-to-communicate/comment-page-1#comment-41374</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-41374</guid>
		<description>BREAKING NEWS:  Citing multiple sources, CNN says that Senator Arlen Specter will switch from the GOP to the Democratic Party.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If Tedisco&#039;s loss isn&#039;t confirmation that the GOP is losing everything north of the Mason-Dixon Line, maybe Specter&#039;s party switch (after having been a loyal Republican for decades) will do it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Nah, even that won&#039;t do it.&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BREAKING NEWS:  Citing multiple sources, CNN says that Senator Arlen Specter will switch from the GOP to the Democratic Party.</p>
<p>If Tedisco&#8217;s loss isn&#8217;t confirmation that the GOP is losing everything north of the Mason-Dixon Line, maybe Specter&#8217;s party switch (after having been a loyal Republican for decades) will do it.</p>
<p>Nah, even that won&#8217;t do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Brutus1776</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/failure-to-communicate/comment-page-1#comment-41460</link>
		<dc:creator>Brutus1776</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-41460</guid>
		<description>Sinz54: I am aware of the reconciliation tactics used by President Reagan&#039;s administration... How else would the country have done anything with Tip O&#039;Neill at the helms of the House?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I hope not more people misunderstood what I was driving at in my previous comment.  Reconciliation is an inevitability, and can be beneficial.  Ironic that this post was entitled &quot;Failure to Communicate&quot; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinz54: I am aware of the reconciliation tactics used by President Reagan&#8217;s administration&#8230; How else would the country have done anything with Tip O&#8217;Neill at the helms of the House?</p>
<p>I hope not more people misunderstood what I was driving at in my previous comment.  Reconciliation is an inevitability, and can be beneficial.  Ironic that this post was entitled &#8220;Failure to Communicate&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/failure-to-communicate/comment-page-1#comment-51700</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-51700</guid>
		<description>joemarier:  In each of those congressional election years you cite, there was a major hot issue that deeply concerned not just the partisans in the opposition party, but most of the general public as well.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;1966:  Vietnam quagmire&lt;br&gt;1994:  Collapse of HillaryCare&lt;br&gt;2006:  Iraq quagmire&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So far, no issue that hits Americans in their guts has emerged to create the kind of sweeping wave it would take to repeat a performance like those in 2010.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course, at this point in the Clinton Administration, we didn&#039;t know that HillaryCare would collapse either.  And at this point in the LBJ administration, we didn&#039;t know that Vietnam would become such a quagmire.  A lot can happen in 18 months.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The GOP should be quiet and be PATIENT.  Obama&#039;s honeymoon will wear off, and perhaps some One Big Issue will emerge that they can use to ride to victory.  In the meantime, all this anger and Tea Parties and frothing at the mouth at Obama is getting them nowhere--except turning off even more young and college-educated voters into believing that the GOP is extremist.  I know a lot of science-educated folks who think the GOP has become totally irrational.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>joemarier:  In each of those congressional election years you cite, there was a major hot issue that deeply concerned not just the partisans in the opposition party, but most of the general public as well.</p>
<p>1966:  Vietnam quagmire<br />1994:  Collapse of HillaryCare<br />2006:  Iraq quagmire</p>
<p>So far, no issue that hits Americans in their guts has emerged to create the kind of sweeping wave it would take to repeat a performance like those in 2010.  </p>
<p>Of course, at this point in the Clinton Administration, we didn&#8217;t know that HillaryCare would collapse either.  And at this point in the LBJ administration, we didn&#8217;t know that Vietnam would become such a quagmire.  A lot can happen in 18 months.</p>
<p>The GOP should be quiet and be PATIENT.  Obama&#8217;s honeymoon will wear off, and perhaps some One Big Issue will emerge that they can use to ride to victory.  In the meantime, all this anger and Tea Parties and frothing at the mouth at Obama is getting them nowhere&#8211;except turning off even more young and college-educated voters into believing that the GOP is extremist.  I know a lot of science-educated folks who think the GOP has become totally irrational.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/failure-to-communicate/comment-page-1#comment-54969</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-54969</guid>
		<description>ottovbvs sez:  &quot;Underlying what&#039;s happening at the moment and which Obama has alluded to are tectonic demographic and attitudinal shifts that I just don&#039;t think the GOP comprehends&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The GOP base, at least, understands one &quot;tectonic demographic shift&quot; very well.  They were staunchly opposed to the Bush-McCain immigration bill, precisely because they feared that a flood of newly enfranchised Hispanics would vote Democrat, and give the Southwest to the Democratic party forever. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And on Townhall.com, I&#039;ve seen numerous posts by the GOP base arguing that it was a disastrous mistake for Nixon to have given 18 year olds the right to vote, because young voters skew liberal.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The problem is that the GOP base has no idea what to about these demographic shifts, now that they have occurred.  And so they&#039;re left fuming.&lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ottovbvs sez:  &#8220;Underlying what&#8217;s happening at the moment and which Obama has alluded to are tectonic demographic and attitudinal shifts that I just don&#8217;t think the GOP comprehends&#8221;</p>
<p>The GOP base, at least, understands one &#8220;tectonic demographic shift&#8221; very well.  They were staunchly opposed to the Bush-McCain immigration bill, precisely because they feared that a flood of newly enfranchised Hispanics would vote Democrat, and give the Southwest to the Democratic party forever. </p>
<p>And on Townhall.com, I&#8217;ve seen numerous posts by the GOP base arguing that it was a disastrous mistake for Nixon to have given 18 year olds the right to vote, because young voters skew liberal.</p>
<p>The problem is that the GOP base has no idea what to about these demographic shifts, now that they have occurred.  And so they&#8217;re left fuming.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/failure-to-communicate/comment-page-1#comment-40715</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-40715</guid>
		<description>Brutus1776:  I believe you&#039;ll find that the Reagan &lt;br&gt;Administration used reconcilation to get its game-changing economic program through Congress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brutus1776:  I believe you&#8217;ll find that the Reagan <br />Administration used reconcilation to get its game-changing economic program through Congress.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/failure-to-communicate/comment-page-1#comment-55216</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-55216</guid>
		<description>In 2004, observing the anger emanating from the Howard Dean campaign (culminating in the infamous &quot;Dean Scream&quot;), Rush Limbaugh correctly observed:  &quot;Anger doesn&#039;t win elections.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;His fans, and the rest of the GOP, chortled at the Angry Left--&quot;Hey, we&#039;re not like those Angry Lefties.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But this year, they became the Angry Right, at least as bitter and resentful as Dean&#039;s Angry Left had been.  They forgot Limbaugh&#039;s accurate observation about anger.  In fact, so did Limbaugh.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If everyone in politics followed the Golden Rule and did unto others only what they would accept to be done unto them, the rest of us could get some peace and quiet for a change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 2004, observing the anger emanating from the Howard Dean campaign (culminating in the infamous &#8220;Dean Scream&#8221;), Rush Limbaugh correctly observed:  &#8220;Anger doesn&#8217;t win elections.&#8221;</p>
<p>His fans, and the rest of the GOP, chortled at the Angry Left&#8211;&#8221;Hey, we&#8217;re not like those Angry Lefties.&#8221;</p>
<p>But this year, they became the Angry Right, at least as bitter and resentful as Dean&#8217;s Angry Left had been.  They forgot Limbaugh&#8217;s accurate observation about anger.  In fact, so did Limbaugh.</p>
<p>If everyone in politics followed the Golden Rule and did unto others only what they would accept to be done unto them, the rest of us could get some peace and quiet for a change.</p>
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		<title>By: Brutus1776</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/failure-to-communicate/comment-page-1#comment-39886</link>
		<dc:creator>Brutus1776</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-39886</guid>
		<description>Danbmil: Obviously the intricacies of history as it pertains to situations such as the Civil Rights movement and party platforms transcends the justice we could do for it on this small comment section.  I cannot believe that it took this lengthy amount of time for you to understand that the Conservative foundation stands against change, by refusing to be bulldozed by unquestioned change, conservatism serves a purpose in forcing the people to question that change and amend it in a way that best serves society.  (Remember Buckley?  &quot;Standing athwart history yelling &quot;stop!&quot;)  &lt;br&gt;I personally do not see a problem with the Oklahoma platform.  I see that you take issue with the aspect of discrimination:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Obviously, sexual preference ain&#039;t on that list. Okay, fair enough&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I fun snipe at those &quot;backward conservatives&quot;.  But let&#039;s be intellectually honest with each other.  Race, gender, CREED, disability, or age encompasses the gestalt of the individual as is.  By throwing in &quot;sexual preference&quot;, you have myopically narrowed down the field.  Creed is important, because marriage is primarily a religious issue (Civil Unions are supported by many Republicans and is a government issue).  How about the right of a religious orthodoxy that prefers to preserve their matrimonial tradition of one man and one woman?  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I digress, a tome could be written (and has been) about these topics.  I cannot understand why people come to NewMajority only to be condescending to Republicans and Conservatives.  If you are more liberal, why force the Republicans left?  Vote for a democrat then.  We already have one leftist party, right Mr. danbmil99 ;)  I am sure you will respond with &quot;I am Independent!&quot;  Which is the adult version of High Schoolers wearing Abercrombie and Lacoste to school to fit with their concept of &#039;what&#039;s cool&#039;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;ModerateGal:  Please don&#039;t get me wrong, I never asked for all refusal to reconcile.  The is the job of elected Republicans.  However, the filibuster is their to be exercised in severe cases where we may feel it is necessary to stop a bill at all costs.  Praising the filibuster rule does not make me inconsiderate of all change (I want retroactive change, I tend to be Reactionary in thought).  Republicans are here to work with democrats and meet in the middle regarding policy.  That is fine and dandy and I understand that&#039;s how it works.  CONSERVATIVES exist to keep the Republicans from drifting leftwards, not just to meet in the middle but to occupy it.  We (those of us who actually are Conservatives) aren&#039;t going to surrender our principles, but the Republicans will use those principles and amend them into workable policy.  We have an interesting melding of multiple parties into two large ones.  Two party system isn&#039;t all that bad eh ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Danbmil: Obviously the intricacies of history as it pertains to situations such as the Civil Rights movement and party platforms transcends the justice we could do for it on this small comment section.  I cannot believe that it took this lengthy amount of time for you to understand that the Conservative foundation stands against change, by refusing to be bulldozed by unquestioned change, conservatism serves a purpose in forcing the people to question that change and amend it in a way that best serves society.  (Remember Buckley?  &#8220;Standing athwart history yelling &#8220;stop!&#8221;)  <br />I personally do not see a problem with the Oklahoma platform.  I see that you take issue with the aspect of discrimination:</p>
<p>&#8220;Obviously, sexual preference ain&#8217;t on that list. Okay, fair enough&#8221;</p>
<p>I fun snipe at those &#8220;backward conservatives&#8221;.  But let&#8217;s be intellectually honest with each other.  Race, gender, CREED, disability, or age encompasses the gestalt of the individual as is.  By throwing in &#8220;sexual preference&#8221;, you have myopically narrowed down the field.  Creed is important, because marriage is primarily a religious issue (Civil Unions are supported by many Republicans and is a government issue).  How about the right of a religious orthodoxy that prefers to preserve their matrimonial tradition of one man and one woman?  </p>
<p>I digress, a tome could be written (and has been) about these topics.  I cannot understand why people come to NewMajority only to be condescending to Republicans and Conservatives.  If you are more liberal, why force the Republicans left?  Vote for a democrat then.  We already have one leftist party, right Mr. danbmil99 <img src='http://www.frumforum.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   I am sure you will respond with &#8220;I am Independent!&#8221;  Which is the adult version of High Schoolers wearing Abercrombie and Lacoste to school to fit with their concept of &#8216;what&#8217;s cool&#8217;.</p>
<p>ModerateGal:  Please don&#8217;t get me wrong, I never asked for all refusal to reconcile.  The is the job of elected Republicans.  However, the filibuster is their to be exercised in severe cases where we may feel it is necessary to stop a bill at all costs.  Praising the filibuster rule does not make me inconsiderate of all change (I want retroactive change, I tend to be Reactionary in thought).  Republicans are here to work with democrats and meet in the middle regarding policy.  That is fine and dandy and I understand that&#8217;s how it works.  CONSERVATIVES exist to keep the Republicans from drifting leftwards, not just to meet in the middle but to occupy it.  We (those of us who actually are Conservatives) aren&#8217;t going to surrender our principles, but the Republicans will use those principles and amend them into workable policy.  We have an interesting melding of multiple parties into two large ones.  Two party system isn&#8217;t all that bad eh <img src='http://www.frumforum.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/failure-to-communicate/comment-page-1#comment-49797</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-49797</guid>
		<description>danbmil99 &lt;br&gt;6:20 PM&lt;br&gt;Actually if you read the GOP national platform for 2008 it wasn&#039;t that different from the OK one although some of the more extreme stuff was sugar coated.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; Mike K &lt;br&gt;8:45 PM&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;All this harking back to political alignments pre civil rights are largely facile. The Southern Democrats were just as conservative in the main as Taft Republicans in the North and they were in many ways a single issue party. Segregation. The only reason they called themselves democrats was because of historical events during the civil war and reconstruction. Once civil right s was out of the way the Southern democrats became what they were all along...ultra conservative Republicans. In fact the major brake on progressive policies by FDR, Truman and Eisenhower were alliances between Taft Republicans and Southern Democrats where things like union rights were traded for blocking desegregation. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Underlying what&#039;s happening at the moment and which Obama has alluded to are tectonic demographic and attitudinal shifts that I just don&#039;t think the GOP comprehends or even if it does comprehend them it can&#039;t respond to because it&#039;s become a prisoner of its movement conservatives. This has imposed a doctrinal rigidity on the party which deeply shapes its strategy and tactics and which I really don&#039;t see how it breaks out of. It would requre a pivot similar to other historic realignments and there&#039;s no sign the GOP is prepared for this at present.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>danbmil99 <br />6:20 PM<br />Actually if you read the GOP national platform for 2008 it wasn&#8217;t that different from the OK one although some of the more extreme stuff was sugar coated.</p>
<p> Mike K <br />8:45 PM</p>
<p>All this harking back to political alignments pre civil rights are largely facile. The Southern Democrats were just as conservative in the main as Taft Republicans in the North and they were in many ways a single issue party. Segregation. The only reason they called themselves democrats was because of historical events during the civil war and reconstruction. Once civil right s was out of the way the Southern democrats became what they were all along&#8230;ultra conservative Republicans. In fact the major brake on progressive policies by FDR, Truman and Eisenhower were alliances between Taft Republicans and Southern Democrats where things like union rights were traded for blocking desegregation. </p>
<p>Underlying what&#8217;s happening at the moment and which Obama has alluded to are tectonic demographic and attitudinal shifts that I just don&#8217;t think the GOP comprehends or even if it does comprehend them it can&#8217;t respond to because it&#8217;s become a prisoner of its movement conservatives. This has imposed a doctrinal rigidity on the party which deeply shapes its strategy and tactics and which I really don&#8217;t see how it breaks out of. It would requre a pivot similar to other historic realignments and there&#8217;s no sign the GOP is prepared for this at present.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/failure-to-communicate/comment-page-1#comment-47413</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-47413</guid>
		<description>The numbers in all these polls all basically tell the same story. There unanimity is uncanny. And yet the most common responses I see from Republican bloggers are the polls are fixed, the Wapo&#039;s in the tank for Obama, Rasmussen&#039;s more accurate when it&#039;s clear he&#039;s the outlier, this is still a conservative country. In short the total denial of reality that has enveloped the right on almost every issue. As you work through the anatomy of that ABC/WAPO poll it&#039;s very ominous for Republicans but what are you going to do when they reject info scientifically arrived at. It&#039;s basically the same as their penchant for denying the science on global warming, stem cell research, evolution and all the other stuff. It&#039;s basically become the party that rejects education, professional expertise, managerial skill, empirical evidence, commonsense, etc in favor of some vague and angry populism. As I frequently say here this is probably a process that has to be gone through. There have clearly got to be a lot more NY 20&#039;s before the Republican party gets the message.      </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The numbers in all these polls all basically tell the same story. There unanimity is uncanny. And yet the most common responses I see from Republican bloggers are the polls are fixed, the Wapo&#8217;s in the tank for Obama, Rasmussen&#8217;s more accurate when it&#8217;s clear he&#8217;s the outlier, this is still a conservative country. In short the total denial of reality that has enveloped the right on almost every issue. As you work through the anatomy of that ABC/WAPO poll it&#8217;s very ominous for Republicans but what are you going to do when they reject info scientifically arrived at. It&#8217;s basically the same as their penchant for denying the science on global warming, stem cell research, evolution and all the other stuff. It&#8217;s basically become the party that rejects education, professional expertise, managerial skill, empirical evidence, commonsense, etc in favor of some vague and angry populism. As I frequently say here this is probably a process that has to be gone through. There have clearly got to be a lot more NY 20&#8217;s before the Republican party gets the message.</p>
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