Comments on: Ex-CIA Officials : Cheney Is Right, Obama Is Wrong

By: KFIR

KFIR — Tue, 26 May 2009 21:11:08 +0000

It seems to me that all this debate stirred up between Dick Cheney and Colin Powell (and Obama) is forcing the GOP to defend itself on CHENEY'S terms, and not consider that there is any other type of Republican with different views than what Cheney expresses.
Well it is time for us to finally speak our mind on this. Does ANYONE in the GOP remember what a ROCKEFELLER REPUBLICAN is?!
Is that such a horrible thing to be? Has the GOP gone so far to the right, even on this torture issue, that we can consider no other approach to issues than an extreme right view on torture, the economy, defense, social issues, and so on. So from now on, on torture and many other issues, I ask you all to keep in mind the term (and look it up) ROCKEFELLER REPUBLICAN!
There is no sin in being one again!!!!

By: ktward

ktward — Sat, 23 May 2009 17:21:48 +0000

barker13:

oops my bad, I forgot this footnote:

*Well-informed opinion seeks and evaluates information as presented by credible but opposing arguments.

By: ktward

ktward — Sat, 23 May 2009 17:18:17 +0000

barker13:

Jeez! sinz is a fella you typically agree with, or at least respect, and then you spout off rhetorically silly nonsense like this:

"Or... sticking with the "Sinz School of Making Up Constitutional Law on the Fly,..."

Really. Your cred in terms of sensible dialogue is on the line here, IMHO. Do you not see this?

By: ktward

ktward — Sat, 23 May 2009 17:10:02 +0000

mdsagemello :Your comment is unintelligible. Might you do better and prove a part of constructive discourse?

By: Realist

Realist — Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:00 +0000

"Dersh" on torture warrants:

"The real debate is whether such torture should take place outside of our legal system or within it. The answer to this seems clear: If we are to have torture, it should be authorized by the law."

So, we end up resolving the conflict between torture and the rule of law by changing the rule of law to accommodate torture. Is the judicial process so sacred that it's worth torturing more people in order to preserve it in the merest formal sense?

That's both tortuous and torturous.

By: ktward

ktward — Sat, 23 May 2009 17:06:12 +0000

barker13: "Torture" is kinda like pornography... I know it when I see it. (Doesn't me [sic] you don't have a "right" to see it differently, but I'm telling you how I view it.)"

In terms of international and US law, you are wrong, which is fortunate because I've no idea what your analogous and subjective pornographic 'limits' might be. Not going there, than you very much.

All the current legal hoopla of which you are perfectly capable of educating yourself beyond Heritage Foundation et al*.
strongly points to definitive boundaries with regards to interrogation and the definition of torture.

For you to suggest it is a casually subjective issue, like pornography, is silly.

By: barker13

barker13 — Sat, 23 May 2009 14:11:13 +0000

Re: Sinz54; 8:29 AM --

"By law, the President would be required to get a "torture warrant" from a Federal judge before proceeding. That requires the Executive Branch to get written concurrence from the Judicial Branch."

Nonsense.

(*ROLLING MY EYES*)

WHICH judge, Sinz...???

I mean... putting aside for the sake of argument your simply making new laws and procedures up out of whole cloth with not even a nod towards constitutional reality, exactly WHICH judge would you have "balance" the unitary executive - the POTUS, who as a duly elected president is Head of State as well as Head of Government?

Jeez... if you're gonna throw nonsense like this out, at least fluff it up a bit.. (*CHUCKLE*)... "specify" the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court or at least a majority of the full Court.

(*SNORT*)

Listen. The Constitution AS WRITTEN already provides all the "balance" you'd ever want. If Congress doesn't like waterboarding or other specific "techniques," well, they can PASS LAWS to forbid presidential authorization of such actions.

Or... sticking with the "Sinz School of Making Up Constitutional Law on the Fly," Congress could include itself in the decision making process - for example, they could grant the president power to "torture" but only if both the Speaker of the House and Majority Leader of the Senate concur.

BILL

By: jreb

jreb — Sat, 23 May 2009 13:02:22 +0000

barker13-Elise. You understand this is just a blog, right? You're not a reporter. This is not a news organization.

Thank goodness this is not a news organization. A Zogby survey of more than 3000 people performed in the two days after the 2008 US Presidential Election found that 37.6% of respondents considered the Internet the most reliable source of news, 20.3% consider national TV news most reliable and 16% said that radio is the most reliable source.

GeorgeW-We must do what we must to insure the safety (and) protection of .. America, the American people and the world.(If) water boarding saved only one life it would be justified.

Amen to that, I believe the silent majority of American people still believe that the terrorists who have murdered innocent people or are plotting to do so have relinquished any legitimate claim to equal protection under our system of justice.

DrBlogstein-bottom line: let the experts do their job.

Why should we have an independent intelligence service if they are subject to the biased whims and recriminations of the political party in power?

By: sinz54

sinz54 — Sat, 23 May 2009 12:29:04 +0000

tdawg11870 sez: "whether, even if effective, the United States ought to torture people. If we try to get around that thorny issue by re-naming it, we're cheating ourselves"

Fine.
In the weeks after 9-11, civil libertarian Alan Dershowitz faced the issue without renaming it. And his proposal was that under extreme circumstances, yes we could torture as follows: By law, the President would be required to get a "torture warrant" from a Federal judge before proceeding. That requires the Executive Branch to get written concurrence from the Judicial Branch.

And yes, Dershowitz called this a "torture warrant," not an "enhanced interrogation warrant."

By: GeorgeW.(gfwjr)

GeorgeW.(gfwjr) — Sat, 23 May 2009 11:08:47 +0000

We must do what we must to insure the safety a protection of the America, the American people and the world. I f water boarding saved only one life it would be justified.Our enemies do much, much worse to our military, after which in most instances they kill our soldiers. Our people are not given three square meals a day, clean cells or colored TVs! there is something terribly wrong with Obama and anyone else who thinks otherwise