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	<title>Comments on: Enforcement Not Amnesty</title>
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	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: mic</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/enforcement-not-amnesty/comment-page-1#comment-81265</link>
		<dc:creator>mic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18147#comment-81265</guid>
		<description>Kudos to Frum for employing a non-native born American because clearly Crystal has not mastered English, sentence structure, logic,  and other basic skills. Good verbal diarrhea though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudos to Frum for employing a non-native born American because clearly Crystal has not mastered English, sentence structure, logic,  and other basic skills. Good verbal diarrhea though.</p>
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		<title>By: legalalien</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/enforcement-not-amnesty/comment-page-1#comment-77354</link>
		<dc:creator>legalalien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18147#comment-77354</guid>
		<description>To summarize:  There is a yawning chasm between LEGAL ALIENS who obtain permanent status  (green card) and later, citizenship through an extensive and thorough process of examination by five different departments of the federal government (CBP at entry, State for visa, USCIS for status, judiciary for naturalization, government MD&#039;s for health certification and background checks by the alphabet soup of US law enforcement and intelligence data base holders) and ILLEGAL ALIENS who have never -- because they know that they would not quality -- subjected themselves to the most basic of examinations. 

I suggest that illegals be deported forthwith. Those who have &#039;connections&#039; in the USA will have no problem returning under laws presently in place for family reunification. Perhaps additional funding is required to reduce the extensive waiting times for USCIS processing in some family reunification classes, but no more action than that is required UNLESS it is the goal of the political classes to create a voter group obliged to them for status, as happened in Canada and the United Kingdom since the 1960&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To summarize:  There is a yawning chasm between LEGAL ALIENS who obtain permanent status  (green card) and later, citizenship through an extensive and thorough process of examination by five different departments of the federal government (CBP at entry, State for visa, USCIS for status, judiciary for naturalization, government MD&#8217;s for health certification and background checks by the alphabet soup of US law enforcement and intelligence data base holders) and ILLEGAL ALIENS who have never &#8212; because they know that they would not quality &#8212; subjected themselves to the most basic of examinations. </p>
<p>I suggest that illegals be deported forthwith. Those who have &#8216;connections&#8217; in the USA will have no problem returning under laws presently in place for family reunification. Perhaps additional funding is required to reduce the extensive waiting times for USCIS processing in some family reunification classes, but no more action than that is required UNLESS it is the goal of the political classes to create a voter group obliged to them for status, as happened in Canada and the United Kingdom since the 1960&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: legalalien</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/enforcement-not-amnesty/comment-page-1#comment-77353</link>
		<dc:creator>legalalien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18147#comment-77353</guid>
		<description>SINZ54 will be pleased to note that on applicable USCIS and Department of State forms (available for download on the net) questions pertaining to what he/she calls &#039;ideological purity&#039; -- for example, intent to engage in terroristic acts --  and what Congress defines as moral turpitude -- for example, drug related offenses and prostitution related offenses -- do indeed appear and have to be sworn or affirmed.  

Even after successful naturalization, an alien who LIED on the forms is subject to prosecution and penalities which could lead to removal of US citizenship and deportation.  Whether the political and judicial will is present to enforce these laws is (as the failure to prosecute Nazis active in WW II shows) a matter of debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SINZ54 will be pleased to note that on applicable USCIS and Department of State forms (available for download on the net) questions pertaining to what he/she calls &#8216;ideological purity&#8217; &#8212; for example, intent to engage in terroristic acts &#8212;  and what Congress defines as moral turpitude &#8212; for example, drug related offenses and prostitution related offenses &#8212; do indeed appear and have to be sworn or affirmed.  </p>
<p>Even after successful naturalization, an alien who LIED on the forms is subject to prosecution and penalities which could lead to removal of US citizenship and deportation.  Whether the political and judicial will is present to enforce these laws is (as the failure to prosecute Nazis active in WW II shows) a matter of debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Kanzeon</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/enforcement-not-amnesty/comment-page-1#comment-77335</link>
		<dc:creator>Kanzeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18147#comment-77335</guid>
		<description>&quot;Amnesty&quot; won&#039;t &quot;expand,&quot; as you say, the population of the most hard-pressed poor.

The immigrants are already here, working and collecting benefits.  &quot;Amnesty&quot; in current political debate tends to include paying into the system, not free passes like Reagan gave.  So, if you&#039;re really looking for some money to help the poor and minorities, perhaps you would support one of the many proposals that condition application for citizenship on payment of a large fine , which could be diverted to social programs for those already citizens.

But, of course, we all know you aren&#039;t thinking of proposing anything that would help the desperately poor, but just trying to invent some new, divisive, diversionary rhetoric to support the same old do-nothing approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Amnesty&#8221; won&#8217;t &#8220;expand,&#8221; as you say, the population of the most hard-pressed poor.</p>
<p>The immigrants are already here, working and collecting benefits.  &#8220;Amnesty&#8221; in current political debate tends to include paying into the system, not free passes like Reagan gave.  So, if you&#8217;re really looking for some money to help the poor and minorities, perhaps you would support one of the many proposals that condition application for citizenship on payment of a large fine , which could be diverted to social programs for those already citizens.</p>
<p>But, of course, we all know you aren&#8217;t thinking of proposing anything that would help the desperately poor, but just trying to invent some new, divisive, diversionary rhetoric to support the same old do-nothing approach.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/enforcement-not-amnesty/comment-page-1#comment-77323</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18147#comment-77323</guid>
		<description>connor25: &lt;blockquote&gt; Can there be other solutions besides amnesty? &lt;/blockquote&gt;
I would like to restore the concept of ideological exclusion.  

That is, what matters to me with foreigners is not who they are or what they are--but what they believe.  If they&#039;re coming here to America to find a better life and become loyal citizens, we should welcome them.  If they&#039;re coming here to turn America into Mexico or Arabia, we should not.

Time was when the Government was able to question prospective immigrants on whether they were Nazis or Communists or Fascists.  If they were, they weren&#039;t allowed to come here.  Then liberals like Barney Frank shot down this entire idea, because it had been misused to inquire about prospective immigrants&#039; sexual orientation.

Now, the Government can&#039;t even find out if a Muslim immigrant from the Middle East is coming to America to help bring about the day when the Prophet&#039;s Green Flag flies over the White House.  Such a person with such an ideology should not be allowed here.  He will never be able to call himself an American.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>connor25:  Can there be other solutions besides amnesty?<br />
I would like to restore the concept of ideological exclusion.  </p>
<p>That is, what matters to me with foreigners is not who they are or what they are&#8211;but what they believe.  If they&#8217;re coming here to America to find a better life and become loyal citizens, we should welcome them.  If they&#8217;re coming here to turn America into Mexico or Arabia, we should not.</p>
<p>Time was when the Government was able to question prospective immigrants on whether they were Nazis or Communists or Fascists.  If they were, they weren&#8217;t allowed to come here.  Then liberals like Barney Frank shot down this entire idea, because it had been misused to inquire about prospective immigrants&#8217; sexual orientation.</p>
<p>Now, the Government can&#8217;t even find out if a Muslim immigrant from the Middle East is coming to America to help bring about the day when the Prophet&#8217;s Green Flag flies over the White House.  Such a person with such an ideology should not be allowed here.  He will never be able to call himself an American.</p>
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		<title>By: connor25</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/enforcement-not-amnesty/comment-page-1#comment-77303</link>
		<dc:creator>connor25</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18147#comment-77303</guid>
		<description>As my first post, I wonder. What would people of center-right philosophies do? We let the extremists complain about immigration in 2006 that made the GOP lose much face with Hispanic voters despite W&#039;s efforts to reach out to them.  Can there be other solutions besides amnesty?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As my first post, I wonder. What would people of center-right philosophies do? We let the extremists complain about immigration in 2006 that made the GOP lose much face with Hispanic voters despite W&#8217;s efforts to reach out to them.  Can there be other solutions besides amnesty?</p>
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		<title>By: legalalien</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/enforcement-not-amnesty/comment-page-1#comment-77255</link>
		<dc:creator>legalalien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 02:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18147#comment-77255</guid>
		<description>Garlic:  No.  You are wrong. These folks are fully responsible for their own predicament. This is not about christian charity or &quot;equal pay for equal work&quot; or any other issue. Its about whether people who break the laws of the USA to come here should be allowed the benefits of American residency and citizenship, including entitlement programs. You may not know this, Garlic, but as a LEGAL IMMIGRANT, I had to pledge that I would not be a burden on the public purse for a period of 5 years (no entitlement program eligibility) and we had to show to two different agencies of the US government our financial solvency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garlic:  No.  You are wrong. These folks are fully responsible for their own predicament. This is not about christian charity or &#8220;equal pay for equal work&#8221; or any other issue. Its about whether people who break the laws of the USA to come here should be allowed the benefits of American residency and citizenship, including entitlement programs. You may not know this, Garlic, but as a LEGAL IMMIGRANT, I had to pledge that I would not be a burden on the public purse for a period of 5 years (no entitlement program eligibility) and we had to show to two different agencies of the US government our financial solvency.</p>
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		<title>By: garlic</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/enforcement-not-amnesty/comment-page-1#comment-77233</link>
		<dc:creator>garlic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18147#comment-77233</guid>
		<description>It seems like Matthew 20: 1-16 applies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems like Matthew 20: 1-16 applies.</p>
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		<title>By: legalalien</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/enforcement-not-amnesty/comment-page-1#comment-77228</link>
		<dc:creator>legalalien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18147#comment-77228</guid>
		<description>Since the 1970&#039;s, I lived within 70 miles of the United States border, in Ontario, Canada. When I entered the US, I did so LEGALLY, passing through inspection at a border checkpoint being given a STATUS (tourist) and a VISA, which says that I could not remain in the US in a tourist status for more than 180 days per day.  Because I regard the USA as a nation of law, when my business was finished I headed back to Canada. 

When the day came in 2008 that I entered the USA with an immigrant status approved by USCIS  (a branch of the Department of Homeland Security) and a visa approved by the Department of State, I did so in accordance with US law and presented myself for inspection at a border checkpoint by a representative of the CBP (a branch of Homeland Security).  Having further presented myself for inspection to USCIS in accordance with the laws of the United States I am now a LEGAL ALIEN in a possession of an I-551, a green card. At the time set by Congress in the applicable statute I plan to apply for naturalization to become a citizen of the US. 

Note that at any time since the 1970&#039;s, I could have stayed here as an ILLEGAL ALIEN, but I chose to obey American law. Would I have been subject to the Reagan amnesty of 1986? Perhaps. 

Folks who enter illegally make a monkey of all American citizens, permanent residents holding a green card, and foreign nationals here on a limited status (students, H category workers etc) who choose to obey the law. They understood the risks when they entered the country without passing through a CBP checkpoint. No matter how long they&#039;ve been in the USA, they should be deported forthwith.

Their children born in the USA are natural born American citizens under the Constitution and have the full rights of all American citizens. The sins of their parents are irrelevant. The parents can always be sposored in due course under family reunification laws.

As an aside, I would like to note that having had my green card about a year, I already employ natural born Americans in my business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the 1970&#8217;s, I lived within 70 miles of the United States border, in Ontario, Canada. When I entered the US, I did so LEGALLY, passing through inspection at a border checkpoint being given a STATUS (tourist) and a VISA, which says that I could not remain in the US in a tourist status for more than 180 days per day.  Because I regard the USA as a nation of law, when my business was finished I headed back to Canada. </p>
<p>When the day came in 2008 that I entered the USA with an immigrant status approved by USCIS  (a branch of the Department of Homeland Security) and a visa approved by the Department of State, I did so in accordance with US law and presented myself for inspection at a border checkpoint by a representative of the CBP (a branch of Homeland Security).  Having further presented myself for inspection to USCIS in accordance with the laws of the United States I am now a LEGAL ALIEN in a possession of an I-551, a green card. At the time set by Congress in the applicable statute I plan to apply for naturalization to become a citizen of the US. </p>
<p>Note that at any time since the 1970&#8217;s, I could have stayed here as an ILLEGAL ALIEN, but I chose to obey American law. Would I have been subject to the Reagan amnesty of 1986? Perhaps. </p>
<p>Folks who enter illegally make a monkey of all American citizens, permanent residents holding a green card, and foreign nationals here on a limited status (students, H category workers etc) who choose to obey the law. They understood the risks when they entered the country without passing through a CBP checkpoint. No matter how long they&#8217;ve been in the USA, they should be deported forthwith.</p>
<p>Their children born in the USA are natural born American citizens under the Constitution and have the full rights of all American citizens. The sins of their parents are irrelevant. The parents can always be sposored in due course under family reunification laws.</p>
<p>As an aside, I would like to note that having had my green card about a year, I already employ natural born Americans in my business.</p>
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		<title>By: garlic</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/enforcement-not-amnesty/comment-page-1#comment-77227</link>
		<dc:creator>garlic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=18147#comment-77227</guid>
		<description>Are you making the argument that we shouldn&#039;t educate the children of illegal immigrants, so we can spend that money instead on our current urban poor?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you making the argument that we shouldn&#8217;t educate the children of illegal immigrants, so we can spend that money instead on our current urban poor?</p>
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