RSS Feed Menu“The female of the species is more deadly than the male.”
The women of the IDF talk the talk, and they walk the walk. Women were allowed to become fighter pilots in the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) after a landmark court ruling in 1995. In the year 2000, Israel’s military service law was amended to allow women to serve in any capacity that male soldiers serve, including combat units. Israeli women serve in the infantry or mechanized units, or any other combat occupation. They make up a third of the IDF, and are treated as equals with males.
The United States military started allowing women to serve in direct combat support units, such as Military Police, in the late 80’s. During Operation Just Cause – the Panama invasion – a female MP platoon leader was decorated for valor in combat. According to current Department of Defense policy, women are not allowed to serve in ground combat units at the battalion level and below. But because of the highly mobile nature of modern warfare, there are no “front lines” one imagines in classic war scenarios. Special operations units and irregular forces traditionally operate far behind enemy lines, choosing when & where they engage enemy forces, and their targets are quite often support & logistical units. During the initial stages of the Iraq War, our supply convoys experienced close ambushes and we took heavy casualties — including women in non-combat MOS’s. Women are now integrated into almost every military role – only combat arms units remain the exclusive domain of men only. The Navy has women serving on all ships, and the Air Force has female pilots flying everything from C-130s to F-16s.
Army Sergeant Catherine Ross pulling security in a Stryker, Mosul, 2004
The recent New York Times story, Women’s Work, by Catherine Ross vividly demonstrates how the military’s policy on barring women from combat doesn’t match reality. I know I’m going to take a lot of flak from my SF compadres over the sentiments expressed in this post. Here’s what I’ve got to say to that: there are a lot of women I’d take on my team over some of the miserable excuses for soldiers I had to tolerate during my time in – especially toward the end when the Xbox Generation started showing up.
DFL // Mar 8, 2010 at 10:16 am
No country is worth defending that puts its women into combat.
Carney // Mar 8, 2010 at 10:53 am
Oops, Sotomayor is an Associate Justice, not Chief.
sdspringy // Mar 8, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Sinz54, you appear to employ the gold plated Liberal template on Carney by stating his posts are tinge with racism. Thus not worthy of consideration. You may not be a Lib but you certainly use their methods well
I am a Vet, and firmly believe women have NO place in combat operations. Period.
The physical strength is not there, can’t be argued. If some wimpy men are making it through then that is the fault of theNCOs.
I personnally booted many men out of the service for not measureing up. And the attempts at justifying the women in combat have other motives, which have nothing to do with combat effectiveness.
Carney’s statements are factual, you may not like them but this isn’t a beauty contest. Same as the military.
Sean Linnane // Mar 8, 2010 at 9:50 pm
Sun Tzu – a general who lived around the 5th Century BC in either the Kingdom of Wu or the Kingdom of Qi, which is roughly the modern Shandong province in Eastern China.
According to legend, Sun Tzu was employed by Ho-lú, the King of Wu during 514-496 BC. This is the tale of how Sun Tzu convinced his king that he knew how to train soldiers.
According to legend, Sun-Tzu was interviewed by King Ho-lú. Asked to give a demonstration of his theories, Sun-Tzu created two company formations out of 300 of the king’s concubines, appointing two of the king’s favourites as company commanders. He equipped them with weapons and armor, explained and demonstrated a set of drill movements, and ordered them to perform the drill. The concubines laughed at the order. Patiently, Sun-Tzu repeated his explanation and demonstration, and again gave the order. Again, the concubines laughed.
Sun-Tzu remarked: “If the instructions are not clear, if the orders are not obeyed, it is the fault of the general. But if the instructions are clear and the soldiers still do not obey, it is the fault of their officers.”
He then summoned the king’s executioner and, despite the king’s protests, had the two concubine commanders beheaded. New commanders were appointed from the ranks, and this time when Sun-Tzu gave the order, the concubines performed the required drill movements perfectly. Later, when asked why he did not heed the king’s request to spare his favorites, Sun-Tzu replied, ‘Once a general is directing his troops, he should reject further interference from his sovereign.’
While shocked by the loss of his favorites, the king was nonetheless impressed by Sun-Tzu’s character and understanding of warfare, and appointed him as General.
Sean Linnane // Mar 8, 2010 at 10:14 pm
sdspringy – “Who the F— are YOU?”
Please tell me where & when I threw a race card out there? I deny the race card OUTRIGHT. If you knew anything about me, anything about who I am and what I’ve written about my life, you would know how morally bankrupt that charge is. Am I racist? Ask my wife – BTW you better know how to write Hangkul.
This post grew out of a post on my own Blog STORMBRINGER:
http://seanlinnane.blogspot.com/2010/03/warrior-women.html
I spent five years as an Infantry grunt in the 82D Airborne before I went “down the street” and spent twenty years in Special Forces. I personally cannot imagine women serving in the Infantry, although I am aware of females serving within certain Special Operations units, in various armies worldwide.
But then I saw this clip with the Israeli women – my purpose here was to explore this concept. If the Israelis can do it, this suggests to me the obstacles are cultural, not physical.
I am a professional soldier – it is what I do, to this day. Along the way, it has been my privilege to serve with some damn fine women who would do shame to any ten men. God, if I could have a platoon made up of some of these girls I’ve served beside, may Heaven have mercy upon the souls we would reap.
If only you knew . . . if only you knew . . .
sdspringy // Mar 9, 2010 at 8:10 am
Sean, read the post, I was refering to Sinz54.
sinz54 // Mar 9, 2010 at 10:03 am
sdspringy: I am a Vet, and firmly believe women have NO place in combat operations. Period.
The physical strength is not there, can’t be argued.
How much physical strength does it take to fly an F-35 fighter? I thought the controls on that thing were incredibly sensitive. A musclebound guy might not do as well as a woman with sensitive fingers and hands.
So I don’t see why airplane crews, at least, can’t have women.
Carney // Mar 9, 2010 at 11:40 am
sinz54, it takes incredible strength and stamina. Often in a dogfight the pilots emerge covered in sweat, having lost considerable weight. It’s not like playing a video game.
sdspringy // Mar 9, 2010 at 4:57 pm
Sean:
But then I saw this clip with the Israeli women – my purpose here was to explore this concept
The concept of the Israeli military has changed, thus the humiliation just a year or more ago when they went into Lebanon. The reasons why their military was slapped around I do not know, but as an example of a fighting force the Israeli military is now in question
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sinz54 // Mar 10, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Carney: sinz54, it takes incredible strength and stamina.
You mean like this?
9 April 2003
In a dramatic feat of piloting on Monday, Capt. KC, an A-10 pilot who asked to be identified only by her rank and radio call sign, piloted her badly damaged fighter in a difficult, hourlong flight back from Baghdad.
KC, assigned to the 23rd Fighter Group at Pope Air Force Base, N.C., was in a two-plane flight orbiting the city when ground troops called for assistance. As the A-10s were leaving the area following successful attacks on ground targets, KC said she felt a sharp jolt and warning lights began flashing on cockpit panels.
“The plane rolled left and pointed at the ground, which is not a comforting feeling over Baghdad,” she said. “The jet wasn’t responding to any of my control inputs.”
That meant total loss of both the plane’s hydraulic systems, which operate flight controls, brakes, landing gear and other key systems. As a final backup, the A-10 has a manual flight-control system, which works control of rudders, flaps and other control surfaces with mechanical cables and links.
What followed was an hour of worry, both in the air and on the ground.
KC said she and her flight leader ran through a series of checks, and she quickly decided that rather than eject over U.S.-held territory, she would fly the jet back home.
“There was no way I wanted to eject over Baghdad,” she said. Even over friendly territory, she said, there was no doubt she wanted to bring the plane home.
….KC brought her plane to a near-perfect landing.
The rear section of her jet resembled a cheese grater, pockmarked with holes punched by Iraqi shrapnel. A one-foot chunk had been ripped from the leading edge of the plane’s right horizontal stabilizer, revealing jagged edges of honeycombed outer skin.
The A-10 isn’t an easy plane to fly even in normal circumstances, let alone when it has to be flown on manual with all the hydraulic systems out. And A-10 type of work–close air support–is up close and personal war.
But she does it.
Carney // Mar 10, 2010 at 6:34 pm
sinz54, it was inevitable that once (in violation of the law, by the way) we put women in harm’s way, one would acquit herself well (to deafening media hosannas). That doesn’t make it a good idea. It’s a terrible one, for pragmatic as well as principled reasons.
Sean Linnane // Mar 10, 2010 at 9:34 pm
Violation of what law, Carney? Do you even know what you’re talking about? How can you argue with a success story like that A-10 pilot? You’re making yourself look like an anachronism.
Check it out: I have a day job, and it ain’t driving the beer truck, if you follow me. There are a couple of women I can think of right off the top of my head I would have on my team, any day. But because of this policy, they cannot even be considered.
Needless to say, there are a LOT of guys I knew in SF who needed to be shown the door.
Now check it out: I’m not saying lower the standards to let women in. Au contraire, I’m saying RAISE the standards across the board. The whole military is starting to resemble Special Operations units these days anyway, with all their scare gear and black Velcro. I’m saying scale down the military, kick out the slugs, let contractors pull the slack on support & logistics, and fight this war the way a counterinsurgency SHOULD be fought.
Stick it in the eye of the Islamists: “Take THAT!!! Achmed!!! You just got sent to Moslem Hell by a WOMAN ! ! ! ”
Comment?
Carney // Mar 13, 2010 at 10:44 pm
When I mentioned violation of the law, Linnane, I was referring to the reality that statute law has banned women from combat since forever.
http://cmrlink.org/WomenInCombat.asp?docID=363
Unfortunately, civilians and even (Senate Armed Services Committee staff-culled) senior brass have been pushing the envelope on this issue and been creeping forward with progressively bolder incursions in violation of the law, knowing that each new step is hard to reverse and most politicians don’t have the courage to push against the wrath of the feminist hags and the media.
And the A-10 is a flying tank, designed to survive incredible punishment and bring its pilot safe.
Finally, again, either you get it or you don’t. Something is deeply wrong with us when we refuse to recognize the distinctions between men and women, and pretend that the sexes are fungible, and we have lost touch with something basic when, other than in a truly dire, the hordes are swarming over the walls style emergency, we send women to fight and die for us.
Sean Linnane // Mar 15, 2010 at 8:35 pm
You don’t know what you’re talking about Carney.
It’s true that women are not allowed to serve in combat arms units at battalion level or below, nor are they allowed to hold combat arms MOS’s (Military Occupational Specialties). But this is not the same thing as being “banned from combat” – American women have served in combat in every conflict we’ve had since the Revolution.
At this time women serve in Infantry units at brigade-level and higher. They are not Infantry MOS, but they can be assigned to such units as the 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment (my old outfit), the 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment (I did a hitch there, too), and in Special Forces units at Group Headquarters level, and in Group Support Company level. They also serve in other Special Operations units, at team level.
Air Force admitted women to the pilot training program in 1976 but initially, their flying was limited to non-combat. From 1976 to 1993 women pilots were kept out of the cockpits of combat aircraft – in actual combat. Even though women aviators flew during Panama, Grenada and Desert Storm their presence was somehow “excluded” from combat records. Not until 1993 were women allowed to fly combat aircraft.
During Desert Storm the first woman pilot gave her life while flying in a combat zone: Major Marie T. Rossi KIA March 1, 1991, when the Chinook helicopter she was piloting crashed near her base in northern Saudi Arabia. The unit she commanded was among the very first American units to cross into enemy held territory flying fuel and ammunition to the rapidly advancing 101st and 82nd Airborne Divisions. Major Rossi is buried in Arlington Cemetery where her simple epitaph there reads “First Female Combat Commander To Fly into Battle.”
Lt Col McSally was among the first women trained by the Air Force as a fighter pilot. During a 1995-96 tour of duty in Kuwait, she became the first woman in military history to fly a combat sortie in a fighter aircraft. She also flew more than 100 combat hours on an A-10 Warthog attack plane over Iraq in the mid-1990s, and served as a flight commander and trainer of combat pilots.
That is the status quo, at this time.
Carney // Mar 16, 2010 at 10:53 pm
I note, Linnane, that you have not cited where the LAW has changed to permit women to engage in combat. As I said, the brown-nosers in the brass, more eager to demonstrate their dog-like devotion “diversity” to the media, interest groups, and the Senate than they are to do the right thing for the military and our country, have acquiesced in or actively pushed along the illegitimate, step by step, salami slice at a time process of having women be in combat. The fact that some women have thereby ended up in combat, and become casualties, in no way legitimizes this.
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MSgtUSMC // Jan 25, 2011 at 1:20 am
The basic combat load for a fighting man has not changed since the Roman Legion. It was about 90 pounds for the legionaire, its still about 90 pounds for todays fighting man. While there may be exceptions to the rule, 99% of the women in the military cannot carry a full load all day long, for days on end . Riding around in a HumV hanging on to a machinegun is a far cry from humping a combat load or loading 155mm shells for fire missons, not to mention busting track on a tank or LVT.