Andrew Sullivan directs attention to this fascinating query:
All of this gets me to Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. Both of them have been in the news a lot for their outspoken and controversial views. And once again, people don’t seem to understand that their jobs are entertainment, nothing more…
Talk show hosts have no legal or ethical obligation to do anything but entertain. And judging by their successes, Limbaugh and Beck are brilliant at their jobs. I find it mind boggling that anyone believes a TV talk host is expressing his own true views…
Do you think that Limbaugh and Beck have the same views in private as they spray into the entertainmentsphere?
That question is easy: Yes of course Limbaugh and Beck express the same views in private as in public. Consistent hypocrisy demands exorbitant levels of imagination, energy, and cynicism. Much less exhausting over time simply to bring your private views into alignment with what you are paid to say in public.
Let me put the thought experiment slightly differently however. Suppose an agent arrived in the offices of Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity/O’Reilly etc. with an offer. “I can guarantee you a deal that will pay you twice as much – bring you twice as much fame – and extend your career twice as long – if you’d say the exact opposite of what you are saying now.” Which of them would sign?
My nominations: O’Reilly accepts for sure. Beck likewise almost certainly says yes. Limbaugh would want to think it over, but would ultimately say no. Mark Levin: certainly not. Sean Hannity would need the offer explained a few times. Ann Coulter – that one puzzles me – but probably no. Roger Ailes? Do you even need to ask?
148 responses so far
1 MI-GOPer // Oct 17, 2009 at 1:07 pm
I think that you and Andrew Sullivan, a discredited faux conservative who is shunned by REAL conservative gay men, should maybe look at your own “For Hire” signs hanging around your prominent noses.
Sullivan has moved decidedly Left in his short career in hyper-blogging, much like you have David, in your longer career in quasi-journalistic opinion spinning. You’re both opinion sellers seeking an audience. You both set up fake arguments to knock down those you don’t agree with… just like you’re doing in this suspect piece of opinion-peddling.
You’re far better in making the case that your fellow opinion spinning commenters are doing it for the gold and their opinions are predicated on making that gold, not expressing the truth… if you were more believable yourself. I think you’ve got a classic case of projection here.
The New Majority inside the GOP needs these folks to capture the imagination and hearts and souls of the disaffected, the marginalized, the dismissed majority and focus their energy on stopping American’s shift to the Left. And, whether you envy their ratings and audience, they do it quite well –day in, day out.
As someone who is equally suspect for having “For Hire” opinions, I would have thought you, looking in your mirror each morning, would realize this. If someone asked me your question about you, I’d say definitely, in a nano-second, no regrets on David’s part either. He’s in it for the gold, the attribution and the fame. Just because you aren’t especially good at it doesn’t mean you aren’t just like Limbaugh, OReilly, Hannity, Coulter, and dozens of other opinion-peddlers on the Left.
Quoting Andrew Sullivan? Come on… what’s next from you, a personal ad looking for bug-chasers? The guy is a creep. Move On, David. Get back to bigger thoughts, not slumming with a sleaze bag like Andrew Sullivan.
2 EscapeVelocity // Oct 17, 2009 at 1:22 pm
David Frum already took that deal, it would seem. LOL!
3 joemarier // Oct 17, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Hannity actually has done April Fool’s Day shows where he says the exact opposite of what he normally says. He’s pretty good at it.
4 greg_barton // Oct 17, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Of course they believe what they say! Every All American exemplar of the Republican Party such as those two believe everything they say, and say everything they believe. How dare you suggest otherwise!
5 WillyP // Oct 17, 2009 at 3:25 pm
escape, still… I’m not sure what kind of gold mine newmajority is. The fact that the same 20-30 people are always commenting, most whom are Mark Levin listeners, tells me Frum’s lib opinions are authentic.
6 MFarmer // Oct 17, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Holy crap, Frum set himself up with this one. Bad move.
I don’t think any of them would take the deal, especially not Beck. This is projection on Frum’s part.
7 ottovbvs // Oct 17, 2009 at 6:17 pm
…..Of course they don’t…….they are in the business of whipping up, Elmer Gantry style, zealots like mi goper and mfarmer…….they are the increasingly loony base of the GOP…….all of 25-30% of the electorate…..the fact that 60% of the electorate think they are nuts escapes the attention of geniuses like mi goper/mfarmer……have at it says Rahm
8 MFarmer // Oct 17, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Ottovbvs, the number of adherents to a certain belief is not a good argument for the validity of the belief, as the recent election proves — belief in Obama and the progressive agenda will prove to be one of the worst calls of the century.
You mistake my defense of Limbaugh and Beck as uncritical worship, when it fact, it’s merely a question of fairness, and a matter of making a choice — if I had to choose between trusting the virtue and sincerity of Limbaugh and Beck as opposed to the virtue and sincerity of the progressives in power, or Frum or Sullivan, I’d choose Limbaugh and Beck.
The 25% you bring up is true of the progressive support, and that will be clear as independents turn on the Democrats in 2010 and 2012.
9 ottovbvs // Oct 17, 2009 at 7:08 pm
MFarmer // Oct 17, 2009 at 6:51 pm
“Ottovbvs, the number of adherents to a certain belief is not a good argument for the validity of the belief,”
…………What is this supposed to prove…….In the late 15th century a majority thought the world was flat…….Hitler never won more than about 40% in a free election…….you’re spouting a totally meaningless non sequitur……I love your touching belief that the country is willing to rush to embrace the Republicans despite the fact that according to Pollster averages Obama’s appro is exactly where it was when he was elected, Republican id is at the lowest point since the thirties, Democratic congressional approval is about five points ahead of Republicans and on most substantive issues like managing the economy, healthcare reform etc the Dems are more trusted by substantial margins (15-25%) over the Republicans…….other than your zealotry which is being pandered to by the likes of Limbaugh and Beck what else make you think you’re not making a a case just making assertions based on wishful thinking…….Keep up the good work Mr Beck and Mr Limbaugh……you’re completely wrecking the Republican party.
10 ottovbvs // Oct 17, 2009 at 7:10 pm
ireign // Oct 17, 2009 at 6:54 pm
……why don’t you fess up you work in the Republican infrastructure
11 MFarmer // Oct 17, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Because your mind is diseased by partisan prejudice, you automatically think that because I say the progressives will be punished that I’m heralding the permanent majority of the Republicans. I would just as soon see real liberals, who are loyal to the roots of liberalism, take over the Democrat Party and release the nation back to limited government and a vibrant free market. My loyalty is with the private sector, not a political party.
12 MFarmer // Oct 17, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Otto — “the fact that 60% of the electorate think they are nuts escapes the attention of geniuses like mi goper/mfarmer”
Farmer– “Ottovbvs, the number of adherents to a certain belief is not a good argument for the validity of the belief,”
Otto — …………What is this supposed to prove…….In the late 15th century a majority thought the world was flat…….Hitler never won more than about 40% in a free election…….you’re spouting a totally meaningless non sequitur……
Otto, you see what I mean? Mmm, mmm, mmm
13 oldgal // Oct 17, 2009 at 7:45 pm
It seems there are many contenders for most outrageous comment of the day, which drives commentary to be increasingly outrageous. I am hoping for the day when rational thought becomes the outrage of the day and we can have a short period of rational discussion.
14 MFarmer // Oct 17, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Oldgal, it would help if you identify the irrational statements, then show us the properly rational response. That would be a good start.
15 sinz54 // Oct 17, 2009 at 8:18 pm
David Frum,
I think that’s just about enough.
I’ve been here at New Majority since the day it first launched.
Like you, I too wish for a revived conservatism that wins by the power of its ideas.
But you are NOT working toward that goal, when you engage in these kinds of personal attacks.
You’ve said you want to win by the power of ideas–and yet you have continued to engage in smear tactics and insinuations against those conservatives like Limbaugh who don’t see things your way.
I am not interested in personal attacks against those who oppose us.
If you end up alienating even someone like me–a center-rightist who never listens to Limbaugh and who doesn’t think Sarah Palin is the savior of the GOP–whom will be left here, besides the Dems who come here to disagree with you on policy?
KNOCK IT OFF.
Otherwise I’m outta here.
16 nwahs // Oct 17, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Sinz54, here’s the reality. Limbaugh doesn’t just disagree. He destroys who he disagrees with. So if Frum or Brooks says something he disagrees with, he attempts to destroy them. That’s not a benign difference of opinion out there. That’s an enemy out there.
For as long as I can remember Limbaugh has professed to be an ardent fan of the NFL. Look at what’s happening in the wake of his failed bid. He isn’t saying that it was a mismatch. He is painting the NFL as a racist, Obama tool. He will destroy anyone that disagrees with him.
IMO, Limbaugh has to be exposed for the assassin he is, and the divider of the GOP he is.
17 SFTor1 // Oct 17, 2009 at 9:38 pm
No, it’s not McCarthyism to disassociate oneself from a divisive public figure like Rush Limgaugh.
The NFL, no matter what they say outwardly, have concluded that associating with Rush Limbaugh could lose them part of their audience.
They made a business decision based on their calculations of expected value. Rush was a non-starter, not because of his political view, but because he polarizes audiences. That means a likely loss of eyeballs for the NFL. Hence no go for Rush.
18 greg_barton // Oct 17, 2009 at 10:07 pm
W
T
F
?
19 JeninCT // Oct 17, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Andrew Sullivan’s query is fascinating? Really? I don’t think so.
20 oldgal // Oct 17, 2009 at 10:30 pm
mfarmer, sorry, irrational was probably the wrong term (rational being in the mind of the beholder) … emotion evoking would be more descriptive. The proper response would generally be none at all as a response only gives credence to, and encourages this type of commentary. What I would like to see is more civility and logical arguments based on true facts concerning real problems.
21 nwahs // Oct 17, 2009 at 10:39 pm
ireign, you fail to see Limbaugh’s MO. If someone disagrees with him, he doesn’t say “we agree to disagree.” He doesn’t seek common ground. He doesn’t bite his tongue. He hold a vendetta against the person or entity that disagreed with him, and it doesn’t matter if they are on the same team. It doesn’t matter if its Gingrich, Buchanan, or the NFL, he will not disagree on a point but assail their being, their character. Do you understand the assassin Limbaugh is? Do you not see its about agreeing with him and not advancing the GOP? If Clarence Thomas came out tomorrow and disagreed with Rush, Rush would attribute it to his race just as he attributed Colin Powell’s support of Obama to his race. That’s what he does. He takes knee shots.
I do listen to Rush almost everyday. Just Friday, right after all this NFL flack, he started making dumb jokes about not being able to say a game is “blacked out” as if thats how frivolous the racial insensitivity accusation are against him.
The racial insensitivity accusation are more in line with him claiming “The Magic Negro” song was a parody on a column by the LA Times. I read the column and I read the lyrics to the song. The only thing in common is the term “Magic Negro.” The song is a parade of black stereotypes using improper grammar. The column is about how African-Americans have been marketed as Caucasian in culture to make them acceptable. What attracted Limbaugh to the song was the term “Magic Negro” – nothing else. At least it seems that way as the song seems that was all it got out the column.
22 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 17, 2009 at 10:52 pm
I think trying to demonize Rush is like trying to demonize Winston Churchill. He’s a happy warrior and funny as hell and his criticism is always right on the mark. That’s why his criticis like Frum hate him….it has nothing to do with his tone.
National Review used the best word to describe Rush…….puckish.
I think Frum demonstrates that he is not a serious thinker when he goes with this silly nonsense that popular conservatives believe, especially Rush, Hannity, and Coulter. When Rush got into radio, AM was basically a dead media…..I don’t think he ever thought he’d have the kind of success he had today. If all Rush cared about was money, he would have played it safe like Frum and gone to law school like most members of his family. Most people that go into radio fail. Rush has dominated for 20 years because the substance and humor is there.
Frum’s cheap shot at Hannity’s intellect is just another example that Frum isn’t about debating ideas….he just wants to beat up on conservatives more popular than him. I know Frum hates Rush and Hannity because they didn’t go to college but they are making bank, and both of those guys can run circles around Frum in any debate.
23 MFarmer // Oct 17, 2009 at 10:58 pm
“What I would like to see is more civility and logical arguments based on true facts concerning real problems”
I can’t argue with that.
24 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 17, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Rush’s piece in the Wall Street Journal is one for the ages.
It’s time for the Left’s exploitation of black’s natural disdain for white racism to end. These phony charges of racism is a stale and warmed over tactic used by the left to discredit those they can’t not defeat in the arena of ideas.
I would argue that false accusations of racism is worse than racism….most racists are just ignorant fools….those that seek to smear good men with phony accusations of racism are operating out of pure malice.
I would have thought that the Left would have learned by now that going after Rush never ends well for them. Rush has effectively made Sharpton and Jesse Jackson the faces of the Democrat party, and that’s not what the Democrats want.
25 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:00 pm
The people that whine about the Magic Negro song are uptight and easily offended. That’s not Rush’s problem. He didn’t invent the term and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with mocking Al Sharpton and the whole idea that Obama isn’t “black” enough. That’s good satire.
26 nwahs // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:01 pm
Its good satire if you’re a bigot
27 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:02 pm
How is it bigotry if a black liberal came up with the expression Magic Negro?
That defies logic.
28 greg_barton // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:05 pm
conservative-intellectual, you have a citation to back that up?
ANd, if you think that defies logic, you have a really limited imagination.
29 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:07 pm
A black columnist, a liberal, wrote a column in the LA Times entitled Barack The Magic Negroe.
You can Google it….I’m not going to take the time to prove something to you that you were too lazy to research on your own before running your mouth about it.
And it does defy logic if you are informed.
30 nwahs // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:08 pm
Oh and you’re right. As long as Michael Steele validates him, its not Rush’s problem. It’s the GOP’s. It doesn’t matter who invented the term that was used long before the column ( you did read the column didn’t you?), it was used to buffoon African-Americans, not buffoon elitists marketing African-Americans as darker Caucasians. Rush rationalizing the song as a parody of the column reveals he is more of a technician than a thinker.
31 nwahs // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:10 pm
God help us.
32 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:11 pm
It was used to mock Al Sharpton. It’s a parody of Sharpton whining about Barack not being “black” enough, which is something he said during the campaign until it became clear that Obama was going to win.
33 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:12 pm
You leftists are apologists for Sharpton and Jackson.
It’s absurd and Orwellian for you to prop yourself up as judge and jury of Limbaugh racial attiudes. You’ve already discredited yourselves in that regard.
34 EscapeVelocity // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Leftwingism is a mental disorder.
35 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:24 pm
I don’t know if that’s true….just about the only thing Frum talks about is Rush, Levin, Beck, etc, and doesnt’ seem like he gets a whole lot of traffic. I think it’s pretty obvious he has some jealousy issues and it’s destroyed his career as a pundit in my view. Even former collegues at National Review think he’s a joke. To be honest, I’m not sure how he, David Brooks, or Kathleen Parker ever got a gig with National Review. They need to improve their “vetting” process, so to speak.
David Brooks jumped the shark when he said that after seeing Obama’s perfectly creased pants that a.) Obama would be president one day, and b.) he would be a very good president.
I don’t know what that’s all about, but I’m not sure how anybody can take Brooks seriously ever again after such a startling admission of his own shallowness. What serious man is looking at the crease in another man’s pants and using it as a basis for his opinion of the man? If I owned the NY Times, I woul dhave fired Brooks for that statement. It’s embarrassingly callow.
36 greg_barton // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:24 pm
You mean this column?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19,0,3391015.story
It’s bigotry on both sides. The article basically says that the main reason white voters would like Obama is that he fulfills the “Magic Negro” stereotype. It’s extremely racist in that regard.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
And you obviously never read the article. If you did you’d know that the columnist didn’t make up the “Magic Negro” idea or phrase.
37 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:25 pm
I don’t think Rush is divisive at all. I agree with everything he says. And he makes me giggle.
38 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:28 pm
I did read the article. I don”t think the columnist’s point was racist, but I’m not quick to label people “racist”. I think he had a point to a certain degree, but again, Rush is mocking the notion that Barack isn’t “black” enough in his parody song. Not sure how you can argue that’s racism. The point is….why does it matter what his skin color is. It’s not that hard to understand if you want to understand it.
39 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Well this sucks………I guess that I need to head over to Fark or the Politico to engage in my cyber-politicking.
40 EscapeVelocity // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:54 pm
The Left is angry because the Right is finally reacting in a manner comiserate with the Radicals and Racists it has cultivated as allies on the Left.
You cant get anymore thick than that.
41 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 17, 2009 at 11:57 pm
The Left is angry because they are control freaks and conservatives refuse to be shackled voluntarily.
42 greg_barton // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:02 am
Riiiiight. Conservatives ain’t control freaky at all!
43 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:04 am
What I find amusing about Frum is that he has suggested that Rush alienates women but then he bashes Beck for crying. I know Beck is more popular with the womenfolk than Rush is. It would seem like Frum would like Beck….he’s the Oprah of the conservative movement. He’s in touch with his feminine side. I thought Frum wanted us to adopt a more effeminate tone, so to speak, so as to reach out to the women and minorities otherwise put off by our blatant disregard for their “feelings”.
44 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:06 am
“Riiiiight. Conservatives ain’t control freaky at all!”
That’s right. I’m glad we were able to agree on something tonight. I’ve been striving to unite with Democrats.
45 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:13 am
From Rush’s beautifully written op-ed in the Wall Street Journal:
“When Mr. Goodell was asked about me, he suggested that my 2003 comment criticizing the media’s coverage of Donovan McNabb—in which I said the media was cheerleading Mr. McNabb because they wanted a successful black quarterback—fell short of the NFL’s “high standard.” High standard? Half a decade later, the media would behave the same way about the presidential candidacy of Mr. Obama.”
I loved how he worked in that dig at the media’s cheerleading of Obama while defending himself against slander. That was brilliant and it got the Media Matter leftwingers all worked up because it’s true and they know it.
46 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:28 am
Rush Limbaugh is basically the combination of Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton best qualities and none of their worst qualities, and these two founding fathers were bitter political enemies. He shared Jefferson’s distrust of big government and support for low and fair taxation, yet he also embraces capitalism and the “merchant” economy that Hamilton advocated as opposed to Jefferson’s vision of an agricultural based society. Rush is probably America’s greatest orator since Hamilton, and he has the ability to control the debate like Hamilton did, much to Jefferson and Madison’s chagrin.
47 SFTor1 // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:36 am
ireign says: “Once again, you are short on any facts or any evidence.”
This is not a matter of facts or evidence. It’s a matter of foresight. If Rush was closing down his radio show to pursue a future as a silent partner in companies, there would be nothing for the NFL to worry about.
Now let’s imagine he is a minority owner and continues his public career. He gets involved in more illegal drugs, more hookers in the Dominican Republic, some kind of highly inflammatory public controversy of a racial nature, or a slew of other possibilities—all potentially negative, and the NFL has a problem.
It may not be fair, ireign, but business never was.
48 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:39 am
The hookers in Domincan republic charge against Limbaugh is another smear.
The NFL welecomed back Michael Vick, a sadist that tortured dogs, and it also has it’s fair share of wife beaters and other ex-convicts.
This notion that Rush, a man with no criminal background other than getting addicted to a medication that was pescribed for back pain, is somehow going to bad for the NFL’s image is laughable. He improves their image considerably in my view.
49 SFTor1 // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:46 am
A man with no other criminal background than illegally purchasing and using drugs. I assume you have the same forbearance towards the thousand of small-time drug abusers who serve time in jail right now?
To posit that Rush Limbaugh improves anyobody’s image is neither conservative nor intellectual. He’s a rabble-rouser.
I used the hooker example as a hypothetical. He goes there regularly, and that’s what you go there for.
50 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:50 am
You are a smear merchant. You are Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, essentially. You just make things up and then you want people to take you seriously.
When one thinks of Limbaugh, one immediately thinks of Winston Churchill in both his politics and his puckish personality. He’s a happy and very effective warrior, and the greatest mind of the last 100 years.
51 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 1:06 am
In a way, it’s unfornate that there is nobody on the Left in America that is equal to Limbaugh in oratory and stature. Jefferson and Hamilton were both great minds that were fierce opponents of each other yet both recognized the other’s greatness. The best the Left seem to be able to come up with are buffoons and race hustlers like Sharpton and Jackson. I am saddened that the Left is so void of any man with any stature and intellect to spar with Rush in the political arena of ideas. It’s beneath Rush to have to respond to the Left’s Sharptons and Jacksons.
52 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 1:21 am
One wonders how Obama’s approval numbers have dropped so much that now Hillary is more popular than him in light of Frum’s thesis that Rush Limbaugh place as the de facto leader of the Republican Party alienates indpendents who contrast the many flaws of Rush with the perfection of Mr. Obama and can not help put rush into the warm embrace of Mr. Obama’s bosom?
Maybe Frum was just full of it. Maybe in the end, it is about ideas, and Rush’s ideas win the day.
53 wrs10 // Oct 18, 2009 at 7:22 am
I think that the article makes a false assumption – that any, already wealthy, commentator would stand on their heads for a 100% pay rise. I am sure that they would trim their sails for a 100% bonus but, with all that money already, they would rather stick with what they know than learn something new.
Yes, there are journalists and editors who have pre-prepared headlines and articles ready and waiting to be published to oppose whatever as soon as the politician has made a decision. However opposing or supporting a person according to payment is much easier than taking a stance about ideas.
The commentators may indeed be more entertainers than intellectuals – but that is as much a comment on the audience than the celebrities. Just because the commentators are adept at theatrical exaggeration and are not keen on fact checking does not mean that they do not want to believe in what they are saying!
54 midcon // Oct 18, 2009 at 7:37 am
More silliness. How come serious matters never get as many posts as articles about the binary right “leaders” do? Think of the energy that is expended in both the attack and defense of folks like Limbaugh, Levin, Beck (did I miss anyone?). They really are of no consequence except to a portion of remaining 19% of voters who are Republicans. In the meantime the Republican Senator from Maine demonstrates the ability to exercise significant influence on health care legislation with a minority position of ONE. She must be an independent!
55 anniemargret // Oct 18, 2009 at 9:29 am
It doesn’t matter a whit whether or not Limbaugh and Beck ‘believe in what they say.’ The point is that they are television political entertainers. Period. Neither are running for Congress. If they wanted to effect change, they would run and put their money where they mouths are. It is simply too easy for someone like Rush LImbaugh with his gift for sarcastic barbs, broadbrush attacks, and stay forever within the margin of truth and lies, to pretend he has the answers for America. He doesn’t.
How many times have you heard him debate a serious issue with serious people of other viewpoints? Why doesn’t he debate issues with Democratic senators and congressmen on his show? He won’t because he knows he might get stuck against the wall and he can’t have his ‘dittoheads’ thinking he doesn’t have the correct answer for every issue. He’s make-believe.
I’ve thought that these political commentaries on TV and radio are nothing but staged entertainment to make money. That’s all it is. But it’s easier to make money hyping and obsfucating, deceiving and hyperbolizing. That’s why Palin quit. It was hard to be governor! It’s much, much easier to glam up on the stage, wink and smile, and give structured speeches for big money, or write books (or with a little help from a ghost writer), for Big Money. It’s always about money.
Why is the GOP is still talking with any seriousness about these people? They have no credible politician worthy yet to take the reins in DC. They prefer loud and boisterous – crass and vicious name-callers.
Hey, as a Democrat I could care less….. if Rush and Ann and Sarah and Glenn are all you’ve got, more power to you. Just don’t underestimate the American people when push comes to shove.
56 sinz54 // Oct 18, 2009 at 9:56 am
nwahs:
Limbaugh can no more “destroy” David Frum than Anita Dunn can destroy Fox News.
By attacking Frum, who is still relatively obscure to much of the public, all Limbaugh does is give Frum publicity.
In politics, you NEVER punch downward. You ALWAYS punch upward. Limbaugh is right when he attacks the POWERFUL. But to go after a center-right commentator who happens to have a blog is beneath Limbaugh. It benefits Frum.
57 sinz54 // Oct 18, 2009 at 9:59 am
anniemargaret:
Oh, please.
In the 1960s, did Eric Sevareid of CBS ever debate a conservative on the CBS Evening News? No. He got to spew forth his doctrinaire liberal commentary, no checks, no cross-examination, no debates, 5 nights a week, every week. He could damn his political targets up and down, and the only time they got to respond was the next day.
Commentators don’t have to debate. Their job is to offer their opinions.
58 ottovbvs // Oct 18, 2009 at 10:01 am
conservative-intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 1:21 am
“One wonders how Obama’s approval numbers have dropped so much”
………Actually if you look at the Pollster average which encompasses all those Rassmussen and other polls you like to cherry pick you’ll find he’s actually at 54.6% which is exactly where he was when he was elected. Meanwhile Republican appros remain in the tank, even their congressional appro is only in the mid thirties while the Dems are in the low forties
” Maybe Frum was just full of it. Maybe in the end, it is about ideas, and Rush’s ideas win the day.”
……….You’re certainly right about Rush’s ideas winning the day with the Republican party as these focus groups from Democracy Corp demonstrate:
http://www.democracycorps.com/focus/2009/10/the-very-separate-world-of-conservative-republicans/?section=Analysis
…….That this is a cause for celebration is a measure of how disconnected from reality conservatives have become………Even though it’s a Democratic leaning consultancy I’ve no doubt the conclusions here are broadly accurate as Gallup has polls confirming around 70% approval for Palin in the GOP. We also have the evidence from conservative activists posting here who largely manifest the attitudes encountered in the focus groups. This in not good news for Republicans, whatever they may be telling themselves, because these folks may represent three quarters of Republicans but they only represent around 20% of the total electorate. This is a party that is being increasingly marginalized by geography, education and age/ethnic demographics. By all means follow Rush and ignore Frum who at least has some inkling where all this is leading
59 ottovbvs // Oct 18, 2009 at 10:07 am
sinz54 // Oct 18, 2009 at 9:59 am
“In the 1960s, did Eric Sevareid of CBS ever debate a conservative on the CBS Evening News? No. He got to spew forth his doctrinaire liberal commentary, no checks, no cross-examination, no debates, 5 nights a week, every week”
……….See what I mean…. extreme conservative paranoia is alive and well……..their problem is that its appeal is shrinking
60 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 10:43 am
Rush has destroyed Frum in that Frum cannot stop talking and attacking Rush.
The people put forth as intellectuals…Frum, David Brooks, Peggy Noonan, etc are all too often sloppy thinkers. This notion that it’s possible Rush and others don’t believe what they say…that they just do it for money….is indicative of Frum’s envy of their wealth and success. It’s not serious thinking.
61 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 10:46 am
I think the problem Democrats have right now is that they are not making a solid defense of Obama’s policies. They just get parroting the new Democrat talking point that Republicans are a minority and “lost in the political wilderness”. Meanwhile Republicans are poised to win a lot of seats in the 2010 election. It looks like a Republican is going to win the governnoship in Virgnia despite the Democrat candidate along with the Washington Post running George Allen type of smears on the Republican. Obama can’t even help a Democrat in his backyard yet we are too believe that conservatives are irrelevant now?
62 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 10:58 am
It’s lauhable that this midcon clown asserts that the “Republican” senator from Maine had any impact on the healthcare issue. It would have passed the committee vote no matter how she voted….Democrats had more votes.
63 EscapeVelocity // Oct 18, 2009 at 11:01 am
Concern trolls again insinuating that the Left won the culture war, get over it.
Its not over yet, sweetcheeks.
64 ottovbvs // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:10 pm
conservative-intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 1:21 am
“One wonders how Obama’s approval numbers have dropped so much that now Hillary is more popular than him”
………This comment is a fairly good guide to the general intelligence level of conservative intellectuals……..so excited are they by the fact that Hillary Clinton comes out ahead of Obama in what is a fairly meaningless poll that they forget this is woman whom they have spent nearly 20 years demonizing and yet she is way more popular than any Republican politician……if it carries on like this I’d say she’ll be well placed to run in 2016
70 escapevelocity // Oct 18, 2009 at 11:01 am
“Concern trolls again insinuating that the Left won the culture war, get over it.”
……….Yep the right have definitely won the culture wars…….more news from the alternate universe that is so accurately defined in that Democracy Corps report I posted a link to above……and hopefully they are not thick enough as to be unable to spell commensurate.
65 midcon // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:10 pm
What is laughable is that with a screen name of conservative-intellectual has so little intellectual capacity that he believes that the only way to wield influence is by voting in committee or the full House or Senate. With so little knowledge of government and how it works, I would think you would be off spending your time on You Tube.
66 DFCtomm // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:16 pm
David Frum’s win at any cost mentality colors his perception. He has implied many times that we need to toss conservative values over the rail if we wish to continue to win elections. Winning by any means is his only imperative, so of course he would assume everyone is like him. He can’t conceive that convictions might prevent a person from pursuing a course that would lead to greater success. This article doesn’t tell you anything about Rush, Beck or Hannity, but it tells you a great deal about Frum.
67 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Otto: “This comment is a fairly good guide to the general intelligence level of conservative intellectuals……..so excited are they by the fact that Hillary Clinton comes out ahead of Obama in what is a fairly meaningless poll that they forget this is woman whom they have spent nearly 20 years demonizing and yet she is way more popular than any Republican politician……if it carries on like this I’d say she’ll be well placed to run in 2016″
Hillary has historically had the highest negatives of any politician, and yet she finds herself more popular than Obama despite the fact Obama has banished her to obscurity. And she’s going to be too old to run in 2016 and even win the Democratic nomination.
Leftwingers like you live and die by polls, so dont’ get angry at me for citing one.
I’ll take my intellect over yours any day.
68 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Our hero leftwinger provides us with this gem: “What is laughable is that with a screen name of conservative-intellectual has so little intellectual capacity that he believes that the only way to wield influence is by voting in committee or the full House or Senate. With so little knowledge of government and how it works, I would think you would be off spending your time on You Tube”.
The problem is that you did assert that the REpublican senator had more power than a non-politician like Mr. Limbaugh to influence the healthcare debate. I easily debunked that with an observation that the healthcare bill would have got out of committee with or without her vote. There is no ignorant of government and how it works in my statement.
Alexander Hamilton never was elected even a presidential candidate, but he was the most influential men at the time of his foundings. Jefferson himself did not think that he could tangle with Hamilton in a honest debate and he tried to get Madison to do so, something Madison had no desire to do either. Jefferson worked behind the scenes to smear Rush, but much like the liberals today, he never would engage in the arena of ideas with Rush.
This notion that Rush is irrelavant is absurd because liberals can’t stop talking about him. You are not spending hours and hours attacking a man if he is not a persuasive advocate of his principles. Nobody on the Right cares about any of the opinion-makers on the Left because none of them are persuasive. Few American can even name anybody that writes for The Nation, which is the flagship of Liberal-stan.
69 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Correction. …Jefferson obviously did not work behind the scenes to discredit Rush….I meant to say Hamilton there.
70 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:35 pm
The fact of the matter is Obama should have both his governmnet-run healthcare plan and his cap-n-tax global warming nonsense bill passed by now. Democrats have absolute power right now, yet they can’t get anything they want done. The reason is that a majority of the American people won’t neither, and it’s Rush and other popular conservatives getting the message out about these pieces of legislation.
71 midcon // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:38 pm
You debunked nothing. You merely pointed out that in the committee vote, majority rules and the majority party is the Democrats. No Duh! That hardly makes you an intellectual firecracker. What you do not comprehend is how the government works and what it takes to even get to a vote in either committee or the full House and Senate. But you don’t have to waste your time responding, but I will no longer waste my time responding to your lame mental gymnastics.
72 Arch // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:39 pm
“Hillary has historically had the highest negatives of any politician, and yet she finds herself more popular than Obama despite the fact Obama has banished her to obscurity. And she’s going to be too old to run in 2016 and even win the Democratic nomination.”
The Secretary of State position is obscurity? Hardly.
73 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:46 pm
I’m not convinced Frum wants the Republicans to win period. He strikes me as somebody that doesn’t care either way. Frum sees himself as the Second Coming of Buckley despite the fact that he does not share Buckley’s politics at this point if ever. Frum also likes to beat up on social conservatives, but I think one of the minor criticisms of Buckley is that I would have is he never seemed to decide if National Review was going to be a conservative publication or a Christian publication. I don’t think that you have to be a Christian to be a conservative (leftwingers always try to conflate the two), but I also don’t think it’s sound political stategery for the GOP to throw social conservatives under the bus.
I grew up in South Carolina (the best state in the Union by a long shot), and I know for a fact that many people that presently vote Republican would be more likely to vote Democrat if the Republicans discard the pro-life and anti-gay marriage positions. If the Repulibcan party does throw social conservatives under the bus, it immediately puts all the Southern and Midwestern states that Republicans generally win in play for the Democrats.
Intellectuals like me are a minority, and the majority of American are ignorant of economics. Whatever your position is on abortion and gay marraige, these are not really what I call “intellectual” issues….where you come done on these issues is more rooted in your values and not so much your education and intelligence.
Frum is not from America, and he does not understand America political demographics, especially that of the South. The South doesn’t vote Republican because it’s racist as many smarmy liberals would have you contend….it votes Republican because the Democrats are the party of acid, amenesty, and abortion.
74 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Arc retorts: “The Secretary of State position is obscurity? Hardly.”
I never hear anything about Hillary. She didn’t even go over to North Korea to get those reporters release….her husband did. Colin Powell and Condi Rice were both in the news all the time as Secretary of State.
75 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Midcon smirks: “You debunked nothing. You merely pointed out that in the committee vote, majority rules and the majority party is the Democrats. No Duh! That hardly makes you an intellectual firecracker. What you do not comprehend is how the government works and what it takes to even get to a vote in either committee or the full House and Senate. But you don’t have to waste your time responding, but I will no longer waste my time responding to your lame mental gymnastics”
I dont think your “tone” is very helpful in making your case.
You propped up the liberal Republican senator in Maine as having “more power” than Rush. I agree…she does have a vote that a non-politician does not have. I just pointed out that she has no influence on the healthcare debate as the Democrats do not need her vote. She ran as a fiscal conservative yet supports a government run healthcare system that will bankrupt our government forever. I’m tired of these liberals running as Republicans and then flipping us off when we put them in office. A politician needs to run on their true beliefs and win or lose on those beliefs. That’s what you call integrity. This lying to get elected tact that so many politicians take is pathetic.
76 ottovbvs // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:59 pm
conservative-intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:23 pm
“Hillary has historically had the highest negatives of any politician, and yet she finds herself more popular than Obama despite the fact Obama has banished her to obscurity. And she’s going to be too old to run in 2016 and even win the Democratic nomination. ”
……..Secretary of State and clearly second ranking figure in the Democratic party is “obscurity”……….she’ll be younger than McCain was in 2016……..and as I pointed out in the Pollster averages Obama is where he was when he was elected while Republicans remain in the tank……..your clutching at straw statements are so at odds with reality one wonders if they are actually intended as some kind of elaborate joke
77 ottovbvs // Oct 18, 2009 at 1:03 pm
conservative-intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 12:54 pm
……..Did you participate in these focus groups because you express just about every sentiment that came out of them……from ODS to belief that you are being betrayed by your own representatives
http://www.democracycorps.com/focus/2009/10/the-very-separate-world-of-conservative-republicans/?section=Analysis
78 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Otto chimes in with this: “……..Secretary of State and clearly second ranking figure in the Democratic party is “obscurity”……….she’ll be younger than McCain was in 2016……..and as I pointed out in the Pollster averages Obama is where he was when he was elected while Republicans remain in the tank……..your clutching at straw statements are so at odds with reality one wonders if they are actually intended as some kind of elaborate joke”
The fact of the matter is Obama, despite not being a very good politican, did make a brilliant decision to give Hillary that position. I do think it’s possible Hillary runs against Obama in the 2012 primaries but if Democrats vote for her it will look like an act of desperation that would be.
Old politicians don’t win elections in general unless they have the charisma and conservativism of Reagan. See Dole and McCain for recent examples. Hillary just isn’t likeable in general, which is why I’m shocked that polls find her more popular than Obama who is suppose to be the most likeable (cough…bullshit) politician of all time.
It is true that Obama does not win the Democratic party nomineee if blacks were not en bloc voting for him. He got nearly 100% of their votes and barely squeaked out a victory over Hillary, a truly unlikeable politician to most Americans.
79 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Otto snears: “Did you participate in these focus groups because you express just about every sentiment that came out of them……from ODS to belief that you are being betrayed by your own representatives”
I don’t participate in focus groups. I’m about ideas and principles….not focus groups.
80 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 1:15 pm
I think Rush’s brilliant piece in the Wall STreet J ournal will go down in history as the greatest commentary on race since MLK’s I have a Dream speech.
81 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Comedy gold: Al Sharpton has threatened to sue Rush for defamation because Rush simply pointed out the fact that Sharpton played a role in inciting the riots that left one person dead. The king of defamation and slander in Sharpton whining, without any basis in reality, that he has been slandered.
Sharpton should sue, then we can see how well he stands up to legal discovery as his actions are put under the spotlight.
82 anniemargret // Oct 18, 2009 at 1:40 pm
conservative-intellectual: “Democrats are the party of acid, amenesty, and abortion. ”
Hilarious. This is real throw-back thinking from the 60s. They’re still unaware that this country has been moving left for a long time now. Abortion? You want to outlaw it? You want to put women in jail? How bout the guys who got them pregnant and then took off and ran? Perhaps they should be in jail, too. Or maybe the better answer to keep them legal, but rare, with better education and use of birth control, which responsible adults do, but then again, birth control is probably something you don’t support given your propensity to smear millions of Americans.
Amnesty? didn’t your President George Bush suggest a compromise for illegal immigrants? Wasn’t it John McCain who also ditto’d that one? Just Democrats, huh? And if you are against ‘amnesty’ then work to find real solutions to the illegal immigration problem, which would by and large, include condemning and issuing large fines against companies that knowingly hire illegals. If the companies stop hiring, they go away!
Acid? I don’t know a single soul of Democrat persuasion who uses ‘acid.’ Man…you are a real throwback. Wake up – it’s the 21st century. Democrats are now more ‘conservative’ than the supposedly conservative ‘conservatives’ . 64 million Americans rejected the domestic and foreign policy of Bush and Cheney – they are not ‘leftists’ they are rational thinking intelligent people. They saw that the ‘conservatives’ were not leading us down a path of construction, but destruction.
83 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Ann rages: “Hilarious. This is real throw-back thinking from the 60s. They’re still unaware that this country has been moving left for a long time now. Abortion? You want to outlaw it? You want to put women in jail? How bout the guys who got them pregnant and then took off and ran? Perhaps they should be in jail, too. Or maybe the better answer to keep them legal, but rare, with better education and use of birth control, which responsible adults do, but then again, birth control is probably something you don’t support given your propensity to smear millions of Americans”
I want the government to strip any physician that performs abortions of their license to practice. I do not wish to eliminate the demand for abortions, only the ability to get one.
Nobody here is justifying the deadbeat male pigs that abandon the women they knocked up. They should be forced to support the kids by the legal system. But this a strawman argument that rather ignores the fact that abortion is the elimination of the life, and a deadbeat husband doesn’t make abortion ethical. I think a lot of women also need to accept personal responsiblity for getting knocked up….they are having sex with men that they know have no character.
Why should be abortions be rare if there is nothing unethical about the termination of fetuses? By your own logic, we should encourage more abortions if it’s not taking the life of an innocent human life. You indirectly admit that abortion is unethical when you suggest it should be rare, because there is no other reason why it should be rare other than the human fetus is life.
I don’t oppose birth control. In fact, I would tend to argue that it’s liberals that oppose it, as they seem to be the ones get knocked up all the time and having the abortions. It’s not my fault Democrats can’t figure out the birth control thing.
Not sure how I smeared millions of Americans by having a legimate oppostition to abortion on ethical grounds. If something is sadistic and barbaric in my view, I say so. A smear is lying about someone….I have no lied about you or millions of Americans in my opposition to abortion. In fact, your hyperbole that I oppose birth control probably qualifies as a smear, but I forgive you.
84 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 2:20 pm
annie snivels: “Amnesty? didn’t your President George Bush suggest a compromise for illegal immigrants? Wasn’t it John McCain who also ditto’d that one? Just Democrats, huh? And if you are against ‘amnesty’ then work to find real solutions to the illegal immigration problem, which would by and large, include condemning and issuing large fines against companies that knowingly hire illegals. If the companies stop hiring, they go away! ”
That’s true, and we conservatives opposed Bush’s push for amnesty and that is one huge factor in his drop in approval rating. The conservative base never had any love for McCain. I never said it was just Democrats, but it has traditionally been Democrats. The GOP has shifted to the left, despite what deranged leftists like you think. I certainly support cracking down on companies that hire illegal immigrants, but the fact of the matter is Democrats support amnesty because they want those votes.
85 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 2:26 pm
annie spews:
“Acid? I don’t know a single soul of Democrat persuasion who uses ‘acid.’ Man…you are a real throwback. Wake up – it’s the 21st century. Democrats are now more ‘conservative’ than the supposedly conservative ‘conservatives’ . 64 million Americans rejected the domestic and foreign policy of Bush and Cheney – they are not ‘leftists’ they are rational thinking intelligent people. They saw that the ‘conservatives’ were not leading us down a path of construction, but destruction”
The president of the United States admitted that he abused cocaine and other drugs in the past. He’s not a Democrat?
Leftwingers are more conservative than conservatives? Since Obama did not run on ideas but rather ambigious platitudes about hope and change, as well as the fact he would be the first black president, it’s a tough sell for you to suggest that Democrats won because the American people rejected conservative ideas. Conservatiism was not on the ballot in the past election because McCain simply is not a conservative.
I’d say Obama’s the president leading us down a road of destruction, from his failed stimulus plan, to 10% unemployment, to out of control spending that has already made Bush look like a miser (no small task) in just 9 months, to his indifference to the war in Afghanistan, to his government takeover of the autoindustry and much of the financial industry.
86 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Government run healthcare is also going to be a disaster both economically and from a freedom standpoint.
Cap-n-tax, based on the alarmist enviromnetal nonsense spewed by bonehead politicians and “scienetists”, is also another dagger in the economic engine of the United States.
87 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Speaking of abortions,
Did you guys hear about the woman that had 15 abortion in 17 years? She didn’t seem to get the message that abortion should be rare.
88 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Obama’s probably going to give that abortion addict the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Hell, the man supported three infanticide bills. I am of the humble opinion that if a fetus is able to survive an abortion, the little guy has earned the right to live. Mr. Obama disagrees.
89 anniemargret // Oct 18, 2009 at 2:44 pm
conservatve-intellectual: I am pro-life too . Just like you. Yet the majority of Americans when push comes to shove, do not want to make all abortions illegal. Because if you do go back to back alley abortions, it is the kids that end up getting hurt, and they *include* those that come from nice, decent conservative family homes as well as ‘liberal’ ones. I taught my children to be sexually responsible at an early age, and so did their dad. We taught them not to get sexually involved too early in life, because 1) it is a moral issue and 2) it destroys lives and families and 3) abortion is repugnant and immoral.
That said, I cannot speak for other human beings. If we lived in a decent totally moral world, no one would get pregnant until they were married and until both parents were ready emotionally and financially to have children. But we don’t. We live in an evil world. We live in a world in which human beings are not emotionally evolved enough to understand the repercussions of what they do, or don’t do. As I mentioned, it is not just the women who must bear the responsibility of these acts, it is the men who join in with them. But how many parents are teaching that to their sons?
As a citizen, I aspire to keep abortion legal. However, as a human being, as as mother and wife, I deplore that so many are now used as an act of birth control, except to use in harsh circumstances of life. I join with you in that criticism.
But the issue is not to legalize or de-legalize abortion. It is a massive national effort to educate – both in families and in the schools. Yes, in the schools, because we still live in a country where wives and girlfriends get beaten and killed. Preventing pregnancy is the issue. Yet ‘conservatives’ are mostly against sex education in the schools, while our society is permeated with sexuality in almost every sphere of the media, and ‘adults’ acting like adolescents, men and women alike.
So to stop abortion, stop the pregnancies. Make young kids aware of the serious consequences of sexuality too soon in life. That means adults have to start acting like adults. The late Steve Allen started a campaign years ago that wanted the media to stop glamouring sex and promiscuous sex. I joined his group and I believe in that, despite my being that dreaded ‘liberal’ that you so soundly whip people with. You can be a Democrat and believe in God and sexual mores. .
McCain is a war hawk. He was probably more liberal on social issues than he pretended to be, but so is Guiliani and Schwartzeneger. The unemployment numbers started WAY before Obama took office, or didn’t you notice the Bush years as contributing to the out of control deficits, the corporate welfare and his ‘tax cuts’ which did nothing to help stabilize the economy. His ‘indifference’ to the war in Afghanistan? You’re kidding aren’t you?
He is now having to face the most difficult decision of his life – whether to commit to putting more than 40,000 more troops there to satisfy McChrystal while tactical and military analysts are debating the wisdom of whether we ought to stay or not. This is not a ‘Democratic’ decision. This is a national one.
As far as Obama abusing drugs? Please…get off your high horse. George Bush abused both drugs and alcohol and had a DWI in this past life. He went AWOL during his service. I really didn’t care that any of that happened – it was in his past. How many Wall Street executives do you think don’t or didn’t smoke pot? What you do in your younger days is not the person you are today. People grow up; they evolve emotionally and socially; they learn from their mistakes. My dissatifaction with Bush was his executive decisions – not whether or not he used drugs.
From your tone and your arguments, it is quite apparent you are a strict ideologue. You make no criticisms of your own, but the other side has all the faults, all the character flaws, all the bad decisions, right? I hear ‘ya – loud and clear.
90 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 2:55 pm
What the hell has Obama done regarding the AFghainstan war? That jackass has spent more time lobbying for the Olympics (an epic failure) than he’s spent thinking about the Afghanistan war. McCrystal has asked for more troops and Obama just ignores him. This is Obama’s decision and he just wants to vote present.
You aren’t pro-life. Alll abortionists say that, but the fact is if you don’t oppose banning abortion, you are for abortion. You can’t have it both ways. You need to own your conviction that terminating innocent life is perfectly okay rather than try to weasel out of it with smarmy and transparent debate tricks.
I stated in a previous post that it was no small task for Obama to make Bush look like a miser in the spending department. That was a dig at Bush, but your reading comprehension skills seem to skate over that.
This notion that McCain and Bush and Republicans in general love war is nonsense. That’s a smear. You live in a bubble in which you think that America has no enemies. You are naive.
No proof exists that Bush did drugs. He’s admitted to being an alcohlic but nothing more. Obama was a crackhead by his own admission.
I’m not particularly concerned about the fact that Obama was a crackhead, but you whined about me referring to Demcorats as the party of acid. Democrats support the legalization of pot and probably a lot of other drugs.
I am a conservative idealogue. I don’t see anything wrong with being right, and I don’t apologize for it. You are a leftwing idealogue but too insecure to admit it…..you can come out of the closet…it’s a free country, and you don’t go to jail for being a socialist.
I’d take Bush and McCain’s character over Obama’s character any day….any man that sits in Jeramiah Wright’s Church of Hate for 20 years and has friendships with unrepentent former terrorists like William Ayers isn’t going to win any character contest. Just because he got a free pass from most of the media on these assocations because he is black doesn’t mean he’s not accountable for them.
91 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Yo, annie,
Following Frum’s theme that conservatives can be bought, I’ll admit that if you are willing to pay me a large sum of money, I’ll post liberal talking points in here. I’m confident that I could sell liberalism better than you can even though it’s a hard sale. I still won’t vote Democrat though.
92 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 3:17 pm
I think Obama is going to have to throw our tax revenue at Mr. Frum’s website here. In Obama’s America, we subsidize failure.
93 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 3:29 pm
I’m not concerned about back alley abortions. I’ve always thought that was hyperbole and a strawman…. sane women are not going to perform a coat hanger abortions.
94 Party of 1 » Blog Archive » “I Can Guarantee You a Deal….” // Oct 18, 2009 at 4:28 pm
[...] David Frum at New Majority gives his estimate of their likely response. “O’Reilly accepts for sure. Beck likewise almost certainly says yes. Limbaugh would want to think it over, but would ultimately say no. Mark Levin: certainly not. Sean Hannity would need the offer explained a few times. Ann Coulter – that one puzzles me – but probably no. Roger Ailes? Do you even need to ask?” 0 Comments | Share this post [...]
95 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Liberals can be the biggest jackasses in the world. If Rush or any conservative just makes a harmless joke about some stupid buffon like Sharpton, the uptight leftwingers blow a gasket. Frum may want to go down on his knees for liberal Democrats, but I prefer ice cream.
96 Brian Garst // Oct 18, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Using the logic of the likes of Frum and Sullivan, I can conclude that their arguments are entirely made in bad faith (after all, they disagree with my own). As such, I can only assume that, were they offered as much fame and notoriety to play Judas to the left instead of the right, they’d flip flop over and find another party to pretend to belong to.
There’s nothing new about the big government, liberal majority you want, Mr. Frum. It’s the same majority we’ve had for 20 years.
97 anniemargret // Oct 18, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Whew….what a jaw dropping whiplash I got from Mr. Conservative-Intellectual. OK…I get it- you’re really good at vituperative comebacks.
You hate liberals. You hate Obama; like Rush, you hope he fails .
Mr. Frum…. the hate that’s emanating through this party of yours for Mr. Obama – who has been in office for a whopping 10 months, and for the millions of Americans who voted for him is not going away any time soon.
98 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 6:15 pm
I do hate Mr. Obama, just as much as you hate Mr. Bush. It’s not personal, it’s political. I do hope he fails….his Statist policies are a disaster. You hoped Mr. Bush would fail and to deny that is a tad bit smarmy.
99 bjong // Oct 18, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Mr. Frum is a snob and difficult to stomach.
100 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 7:33 pm
What’s amusing to me about Frum is he doesn’t seem like he’s ever really done anything in his life. I’m little perplexed at how he makes ends meet by writing a column for some Canadian newspaper. This website is costing him money. You’d think he go back into law (assuming he ever practiced law) but I can’t seem him being a competent lawyer.
101 adj7388 // Oct 18, 2009 at 8:16 pm
I can’t believe I read all 100+ comments. I really need to get a life.
But you know what was interesting? After a while, I discovered that I was subconsciously reading conservative-intellectual’s comments in a subliminal Rush Limbaugh impersonation. Then it hit me: Damn, it’s him. It’s really him! Who but Rush himself would so adamantly, prolifically, and eloquently defend himself on a site like this one?
I donno. Just a theory. But try it yourself. Everybody can do a passable Limbaugh (especially inside your own head). Read a few of conservative-intellectual’s posts in a Rush voice and see what you think
102 Dblade // Oct 18, 2009 at 8:48 pm
David, I usually enjoy what you write, but you really aren’t doing yourself a favor with this post.
Lets do a thought experiment-do you really believe in conservative principles in private, or if Obama appointed you as head of faith-based initiatives or something would you throw them under the bus in order to get twice the fame and twice the exposure as now? If it’s absurd for yourself to do so, why do you attribute it to others who have been much more consistent in their public speaking than you? Dislike Rush and Beck all you like-I’m not a fan of either. But accusing them of potential bad faith isn’t good, because it could have easily been attributed to yourself, with more credence, or especially Sullivan, who is conservative in name only, and just needed Obama in power to make a break with the movement.
103 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 9:11 pm
“But you know what was interesting? After a while, I discovered that I was subconsciously reading conservative-intellectual’s comments in a subliminal Rush Limbaugh impersonation. Then it hit me: Damn, it’s him. It’s really him! Who but Rush himself would so adamantly, prolifically, and eloquently defend himself on a site like this one?”
I was trying to tweak liberals with my comparisons of Rush to Jefferson and Hamilton, and Churchill. I do think those comparisons hold up though.
Somehow I don’t think your little conspiracy theory that Rush spends time on Frum’s website is true. He lives the good life, and Frum is a lightwight in Pundit-stan. I like slapping Frum around on his own website but that would be beneath the greatest mind in American history since Lincoln.
104 Dblade // Oct 18, 2009 at 9:33 pm
Conservative, Rush is no great mind. TBH he is pretty embarassing, and compared to even modern conservative thinkers is a lightweight. I mean, he may be popular and an entertainer, but I don’t think anyone really takes him seriously as a great mind, even himself. I mean, rush is better than Russell Kirk, William Buckley, Charles Krauthammer, Mark Steyn, Dinesh D’Souza, Jonah Goldberg, or Richard John Neuhaus?
Rush is good at what he does, but no one is really going to look at him as a great conservative thinker.
105 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 9:36 pm
I think Rush is easily better than all those guys although Steyn is up there in greatness. Buckley is overated. Krauthammer isn’t known by most people that don’t follow politics, and he’s liberal on abortion and some other issues.
You don’t have two presidents (Clinton and Obama) attack you personally if you are not a great man and have the ability to control the debate.
106 Dblade // Oct 18, 2009 at 9:52 pm
That doesn’t mean he is a conservative thinker though, just that he is popular. That definitely doesn’t mean he is “the greatest mind in american history since lincoln” even if you restrict it to conservative thinkers only. All he is is a more successful pat robertson or falwell-someone who commands respect among a specific demographic that people often feel the need to deride or kowtow too. I think he realizes that, and tends to take it tongue-in-cheek, which is why we don’t see him run for president or take his “talent on loan from god” all that seriously.
107 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 9:55 pm
He’s nothing like Falwell or Robertson.
In your mind, a conservative thinker or an intellectual is some guy that speaks in monotone and in general is dull and mild mannered. That’s imply not true.
Rush is the greatest orator in American history since Alexandar Hamilton. Just a fact man. None of those other guys can speak off the cuff like Rush and deliver a speech like Rush.
I dont’ want to see Rush run for president because I think he’s more effective where he’s at now. Plus the left will chop up audio from his show and use it to smear him.
108 David Frum Careens Off The Deep End « NewsReal Blog // Oct 18, 2009 at 11:30 pm
[...] his worst post yet David Frum picks up some Andrew Sullivan foam (which is pretty much what Andrew produces since he [...]
109 effinayright // Oct 18, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Frum, every first year law student, not to mention a kid trying out for a High School Debating Team, knows that you get your ass kicked up and down the street when you try to argue “from bad faith”. The reason is simple: it’s a chickenshit and intellectually-lazy substitute for arguing on the merits.
I’d say that your claims about Beck and Limbaugh are beneath you, but at this point it’s pretty difficult to imagine anything or anyone lower than yourself. Finding yourself becoming increasingly irrelevant is a bitch, ain’t it?
110 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 11:43 pm
Heh, Frum got ripped a new one once again by David Horowitz. I think Frum goes off the deep end everytime he writes anything. He jumps the shark all the time. A poll found him like the number #3 most disliked conservative by conservatives. You’d think Frum would get the message that he’s no longer a conservative…..if that many conservatives have no use for you, you probably are no longer a conservative.
111 effinayright // Oct 18, 2009 at 11:50 pm
anniemargret // Oct 18, 2009 at 9:29 am
“It doesn’t matter a whit whether or not Limbaugh and Beck ‘believe in what they say.’ The point is that they are television political entertainers.”
What bullbleep. You, like Frum, are refusing to argue “on the merits”. Secondly, Limbaugh is on the radio, not TV. But what difference does the media Beck and Rush use make? A hundred years ago, there were no radio or TV pundits, but there were effective advocates using nothing more than newsprint, books and pamphlets to get their ideas across. Ever hear of Tom Paine? Or how about Marx, Lenin and Trotsky? Or Jefferson or Lincoln. What the frack difference does it make if people use a certain medium — and are effective in it?????
Entertaining?? So what???? You would rather they be boring, as Air America was? Is being boring a sign of relevance and seriousness??? I suspect Frum and Sullivan would argue that it is.
112 effinayright // Oct 18, 2009 at 11:57 pm
In a few years , Frum will fold up what’s left of his vanishingly small Big Tent and retreat back to Canada, where he will be lucky to find a job chewing sealskin to make mukluks. We’ll probably see him reduced to driving the Zamboni at Maple Leafs games, doffing his cap as the announcer tells an indifferent crowd, “You may remember David Frum..”
113 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 19, 2009 at 12:01 am
I think both Frum and Brooks problem is they are Canadians that dont’ really understand America.
I wish more Canadians were more like Mark Steyn, and maybe they are.
114 David Frum Careens Off The Deep End (NewsReal blog) – by David Horowitz | FrontPage Magazine // Oct 19, 2009 at 12:27 am
[...] his worst post yet, David Frum picks up some Andrew Sullivan foam (which is pretty much what Andrew produces since he [...]
115 americanabroad // Oct 19, 2009 at 5:06 am
Perhaps this is worthy of headline news:
Breaking News: “David Frum snuggles up to Andrew Sullivan. Nothing new conceived.”
116 johnmarzan // Oct 19, 2009 at 6:05 am
david forgot to include charles krauthammer, the biggest partisan in the fox all star panel.
117 Dblade // Oct 19, 2009 at 7:37 am
Conservative, a great orator doesn’t mean a great mind. Any two-bit demagogue can have a great speaking style, what matters is the quality of their ideas and thought, and rush really adds nothing except providing a built-in base who likes to hear what he says. I’m not denigrating rush as a personality, but it’s absurd to think of him as a serious thinker-he always chooses the conventional wisdom and never really thinks about both sides of a position he holds.
It’s like Don Imus a great mind, for heaven sakes. Or Howard Stern. All three make their living providing entertainment, not serious cultural commentary.
118 Blogs For Victory » Blog Archive » Are We Conservatives Serious? // Oct 19, 2009 at 9:41 am
[...] Mark Steyn notes something we’ve seen here and everywhere – the assertion that, some how, Rush, Beck et al are just doing what they do for a paycheck and can’t really believe their own statements: Our old friend David Frum has been doing his best for moderate conservatism with a broader appeal – the so-called “big tent”. If the tent seems bigger, that’s because he’s kicking so many people out of it. Each to his own. But his latest offering is unworthy of him – “Do Limbaugh And Beck Believe What They Say?” [...]
119 ottovbvs // Oct 19, 2009 at 10:34 am
conservative-intellectual // Oct 18, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Otto chimes in with this: “……..Secretary of State and clearly second ranking figure in the Democratic party is “obscurity”……….she’ll be younger than McCain was in 2016……..and as I pointed out in the Pollster averages Obama is where he was when he was elected while Republicans remain in the tank……..your clutching at straw statements are so at odds with reality one wonders if they are actually intended as some kind of elaborate joke”
The fact of the matter is Obama, despite not being a very good politican, did make a brilliant decision to give Hillary that position. I do think it’s possible Hillary runs against Obama in the 2012 primaries but if Democrats vote for her it will look like an act of desperation that would be.
……..Never respond to the point…….. just change the subject……this what they teach you at College Republican boot camp……..the fact that you think there is a snowball in hell’s chance of Clinton competing against Obama in 2012 just illustrates yet again that you exist in an alternate universe inhabited by all those other loonies in those focus groups…….but who am I to complain…..go knock yourself out
120 Of Course, David Frum Believes Top Conservatives Will Sell-Out… | Right Wing News // Oct 19, 2009 at 10:47 am
[...] that many of the top people in the conservative movement would sell out if given the opportunity David Frum finally loses it, “writes”: That question is easy: Yes of course Limbaugh and Beck express the same views in private as in [...]
121 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 19, 2009 at 11:35 am
Comparing Howard Stern and Imus to Rush is just absurd. Stern is just a horny old man, Imus is pretty much irrelevant who is barely coherent…he just mumbles about nonsense.
Great oratory requires a great mind. Rush is a great orator.
122 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 19, 2009 at 11:37 am
I think just about anybody could beat Obama in 2012 the way things are going right now. If the media stops covering for and propping up Obama, he’s done. He is a media creation. There is no there there.
123 aelfheld // Oct 19, 2009 at 12:16 pm
“Much less exhausting over time simply to bring your private views into alignment with what you are paid to say in public.”
So says the ideological whore.
124 penick1 // Oct 19, 2009 at 1:13 pm
I agree Beck, Coulter, and Limbaugh are sensationalists, but I don’t doubt for a minute the sincerity of their beliefs. I certainly don’t think they would espouse the opposite viewpoint if offered twice as much money.
125 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 19, 2009 at 1:19 pm
I think that if ClearChannel offered Frum his own radio show on the basis that he would advocate the mainstream conservatism of Rush, he would. I think it’s probable that Frum shifted to the left because he knew he would never get any attention as a mainstream conservative. A so called “conservative” bashing other conservatives is going to get some play in the liberal media. The fact that he did his hit piece on Rush in Newsweek the same day he rolled out this lame website seems to back me up on this “conspiracy theory” of mine.
126 mvpel // Oct 19, 2009 at 2:01 pm
AnneMargaret wrote:
“If they wanted to effect change, they would run and put their money where they mouths are.”
Sarah Palin “effected change,” in the form of derailing and demolishing an entire section of the ObamaCare bill, with a single Facebook post – without even casting a single vote or even holding elected office.
Does anyone remember when Congress was aiming to ram through the healthcare bill before October recess? Does anyone remember why they couldn’t?
If you think that Beck, Limbaugh, and others are not effecting vastly more change than they could ever dream of while wielding merely one vote out of four hundred and thirty five in Congress, then your level of understanding of their influence on the national conservative debate is clearly lacking.
Remember, one vote in Congress didn’t turn out hundreds of thousands of people in Washington DC on September 12, the conservative media and blogosphere did.
“The power of the periodical press is second only to that of the people.” – Alexis de Tocqueville
127 momo33 // Oct 19, 2009 at 3:59 pm
WHO is this Frum guy? And who really cares? He is obviously really stupid if he does not know what True Conservatives are all about. We don’t just change our belief system for payoffs like Libs do. Rush and the rest would never take the deal, they do not need the money and are secure in their thoughts being RIGHT.
We have the TRUTH and FACTS on our side and will always win in the end no matter how much the Libs fuck things up.
Why would we ever change from that? The good vs the evil lies the Lib Heads have. It is a no brainer!
128 metroryder // Oct 19, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck are true American heros and deserve ticker-tape parades in every major city and town across America in their honor!
May God continue to bless Rush and Glenn and direct them to helping defeat the insidious vile and vermin in the White House, and in this country known as liberals, communists, anarchists, progressives, fascists, elitists, statists, Marxists and most Democrats.
129 candle // Oct 19, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Who is “David Frum”?
130 candle // Oct 19, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Ahh, I think he’s that balloon kid’s dad. nm…
131 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 19, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Hotair.com is mocking this mindless David Frum column right now.
I do have a problem lumping Beck in with Rush. Beck’s alright but he’s no Rush. He needs to get a handle on that crying on tv thing.
132 candle // Oct 19, 2009 at 4:48 pm
I think, considering what’s happening in washington, a good cry on tv is appropriate. He can cry whenever he wants, doesn’t bug me in the slightest. I may cry with him.
133 Peddler66 // Oct 19, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Here’s a little thought experiment. What if liberal media out-lets let you and Sully on their programs on a regular basis because you spend the majority of your time crying about Conservatives? Oh, they already do.
134 joest73 // Oct 19, 2009 at 6:08 pm
I guess the kooks on the left believe everything they say….right?
I think I’ll take Rush and Beck any day over Olbermann and Olbergirl Rachel Maddow.
135 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 19, 2009 at 6:38 pm
This may be the most inspirational thing that I’ve read on the internet:
“Rush Limbaugh is basically the combination of Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton best qualities and none of their worst qualities, and these two founding fathers were bitter political enemies. He shared Jefferson’s distrust of big government and support for low and fair taxation, yet he also embraces capitalism and the “merchant” economy that Hamilton advocated as opposed to Jefferson’s vision of an agricultural based society. Rush is probably America’s greatest orator since Hamilton, and he has the ability to control the debate like Hamilton did, much to Jefferson and Madison’s chagrin” Conservative Intellectual
136 apollo11 // Oct 19, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Conservative-intellectual is obviously a FEMALE conservative ideologue — not to be sexist about it, but her emotions obviously get the better of her on these pages….
137 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 19, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Women did to vote for liberalism because it’s an appeal to emotion, not reason.
138 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 19, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Women did to vote for liberalism because it’s an appeal to emotion, not reason.
139 Midas // Oct 19, 2009 at 8:07 pm
As usual, Frum doesn’t disappoint. I can always come here and reliably find him spouting the usual uninformed delusional rubbish.
140 Conservative Intellectual // Oct 19, 2009 at 8:27 pm
I think it’s funny how Frum characterizies his hit pieces on Rush and other conservatives as “Frum vs Rush”, etc. He never debated Rush….just wrote a nasty article about him in the leftwing Newsweek that nobody reads. He also acts like he and Ann Coulter have had one on one debates, but they are usually joined by at least two other talking heads. It seems like he’s trying to superficially raise his stature in pundit-land when he says Frum vs Some Conservative Way More Popular than Frum.
141 Your Monday Random-Ass Roundup: What Up? « PostBourgie // Oct 19, 2009 at 9:42 pm
[...] Estranged right-winger David Frum conducts an interesting thought experiment: “Suppose an agent arrived in the offices of Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity/O’Reilly etc. with an [...]
142 johnmarzan // Oct 20, 2009 at 12:45 am
lefties and democrats attacking glen beck is like conservatives attacking jon stewart. both are entertainers.
143 Rush Limbaugh is Scut Farkus or something… | MT Pundit // Oct 20, 2009 at 1:30 am
[...] the White House calls out FOX News for not being actual news and now more on the left are taking that ball and running with it. Talk about comin’ out both barrels blazin’. Forget debating the issues, [...]
144 Exclusive: SIRIUS XM Producer Responds to David Frum | Parcbench // Oct 20, 2009 at 10:16 am
[...] response to David Frum’s article “Do Limbaugh and Beck Believe What They Say?“, Nick Rizzuto, producer of The Wilkow Majority on SIRIUS XM Radio (www.wilkowmajority.com) [...]
145 carapace – Not your father’s america » Tuesday October 20, 2009 – Honesty is incompatible with amassing a large fortune. – Ghandi // Oct 20, 2009 at 10:45 am
[...] Say? David Frum, New Majority http://www.newmajority.com/do-limbaugh-and-beck-believe-what-they-say http://www.newmajority.com Complete article [...]
146 whecht2 // Oct 20, 2009 at 12:20 pm
I love Rush. I think he is the best in the business.
El Rushbo himself says that he is an entertainer and he wants to be able to charge a lot for his ads and for his advertisers to be happy because it is money well spent.
If Rush really wanted to change the world then he could cut back on his ads and take less money.
Rush has often commented that the liberal talk shows all fail.
The reality is that, for whatever reason, talk shows need to be conservative to make money. If half the country is right of center then it should be fairly unusual that 95% (made up stat) of talk show hosts are significantly right of center. Shouldn’t a left of center talk show, at least just one, be somewhat successful?
147 Oldskool // Oct 20, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Frum is right to be worried. Conservatives no longegr have intellectuals leading their party. Once upon a time they did but they spent those years in the wilderness. It was only in the late 70’s and early 80’s that they discovered they could use a certain kind of populism to get certain people angry enough to vote, even though most of them wound up voting against their own self-interests. So it’s enjoyable to watch it backfire as their party turns into a clearinghouse of hyperventilating loudmouths.
148 Rush, Race and The Right « Blog de KingShamus // Oct 21, 2009 at 12:17 am
[...] why do some so-called conservatives seem to despise Rush? Check out David Frum’s latest missive for a clue. Let me put the thought experiment slightly differently however. Suppose an agent [...]
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