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	<title>Comments on: Democrats&#8217; Health Budgeting: Garbage in, Garbage Out</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/dem-health-budgeting-garbage-in-garbage-out</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: MI-GOPer</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/dem-health-budgeting-garbage-in-garbage-out/comment-page-4#comment-69938</link>
		<dc:creator>MI-GOPer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14299#comment-69938</guid>
		<description>ahhh yes, the far Left&#039;s answer to Sarah Palin --batsh*t crazy Keith Olbermann, the Democrats&#039; version of Joseph Goebbels... Sieg Olbermann, Sieg Heil Maddow.

The font of Far Left veracity has never been a strong flowing stream, more like a chronically clogged pipe dribbling under the best conditions.  This latest smear against the venerable Joe Liberman says it all.

Sief Heil herr Olbermann.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ahhh yes, the far Left&#8217;s answer to Sarah Palin &#8211;batsh*t crazy Keith Olbermann, the Democrats&#8217; version of Joseph Goebbels&#8230; Sieg Olbermann, Sieg Heil Maddow.</p>
<p>The font of Far Left veracity has never been a strong flowing stream, more like a chronically clogged pipe dribbling under the best conditions.  This latest smear against the venerable Joe Liberman says it all.</p>
<p>Sief Heil herr Olbermann.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Olbermann Suggests Joe Lieberman On The Take From Insurance Companies &#171; Nice Deb</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/dem-health-budgeting-garbage-in-garbage-out/comment-page-4#comment-69930</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Olbermann Suggests Joe Lieberman On The Take From Insurance Companies &#171; Nice Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 05:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14299#comment-69930</guid>
		<description>[...] New Majority&#8217;s Douglas Holtz-Eakin explained how the Senate Dems manipulate the CBO with budgetary tricks.  The Senate Finance Committee undertakes political economy malpractice, but the CBO does not mention it.  There is a good reason: It can’t.  The statutes governing the budget process require that CBO compute the budgetary consequences of the written proposal. It cannot judge the intent of the current Congress, the likely actions of a future Congress, or the virtues of the proposals.  Its job is to elucidate the budgetary consequences of the proposal, bill or law as written. Put simply, if the Senate Finance Committee drafts a budgetary fantasy, CBO will have to score it.  If I had a CBO, I could send it my plan for next year: make $5 million a month and buy a 50-room mansion with a national debt clock on every wall.  I’m sure they would be able to say, “yep, this balances”.  But that doesn’t mean it will happen.  The same is true of the current healthcare reform fantasies. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] New Majority&#8217;s Douglas Holtz-Eakin explained how the Senate Dems manipulate the CBO with budgetary tricks.  The Senate Finance Committee undertakes political economy malpractice, but the CBO does not mention it.  There is a good reason: It can’t.  The statutes governing the budget process require that CBO compute the budgetary consequences of the written proposal. It cannot judge the intent of the current Congress, the likely actions of a future Congress, or the virtues of the proposals.  Its job is to elucidate the budgetary consequences of the proposal, bill or law as written. Put simply, if the Senate Finance Committee drafts a budgetary fantasy, CBO will have to score it.  If I had a CBO, I could send it my plan for next year: make $5 million a month and buy a 50-room mansion with a national debt clock on every wall.  I’m sure they would be able to say, “yep, this balances”.  But that doesn’t mean it will happen.  The same is true of the current healthcare reform fantasies. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MI-GOPer</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/dem-health-budgeting-garbage-in-garbage-out/comment-page-4#comment-69905</link>
		<dc:creator>MI-GOPer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 01:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14299#comment-69905</guid>
		<description>Like we summarized, balcones...

ottoBS, thanks for admitting your errors. Where do I send your prize of an autographed “OJ was Innocent” football?

ACORN is all about the fraud… voter fraud, IRS fraud, housing advisory fraud, corporate governance fraud, political fraud, money laundering, abetting criminal activities, etc.

And Obama is squarely, solidly, deeply in the middle of it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like we summarized, balcones&#8230;</p>
<p>ottoBS, thanks for admitting your errors. Where do I send your prize of an autographed “OJ was Innocent” football?</p>
<p>ACORN is all about the fraud… voter fraud, IRS fraud, housing advisory fraud, corporate governance fraud, political fraud, money laundering, abetting criminal activities, etc.</p>
<p>And Obama is squarely, solidly, deeply in the middle of it all.</p>
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		<title>By: MI-GOPer</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/dem-health-budgeting-garbage-in-garbage-out/comment-page-4#comment-69904</link>
		<dc:creator>MI-GOPer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 01:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14299#comment-69904</guid>
		<description>ahh, Newsweek as a reliable source?

What, the National Enquirer wasn&#039;t commenting?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ahh, Newsweek as a reliable source?</p>
<p>What, the National Enquirer wasn&#8217;t commenting?</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/dem-health-budgeting-garbage-in-garbage-out/comment-page-4#comment-69833</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14299#comment-69833</guid>
		<description>mi-goper - again, fraud on the part of contractors hired by Acorn to gather signatures does not constitute fraud on the part of Acorn.

In fact, it would be illegal for Acorn to not turn in every voter registration form submitted to a contractor, even if they did due diligence and determine it was most likely fraudulent (as they regularly do, flagging many many forms they submit as questionable).

This is why no Federal Attorneys have taken the charges up the line to try to actually prosecute Acorn themselves.  Do you really believe that Bush Appointees wouldn&#039;t have leveraged the convictions and indictments you noted into a wider RICO type prosecution of Acorn itself had they had any evidence of a broader voter fraud intent?

As Newsweek reported:

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/10/15/cracking-the-acorn-case.aspx

&lt;blockquote&gt;For voter registration fraud to become voter fraud, ACORN would have to be engaged in a widespread, covert effort to flood the polls with ineligible voters impersonating their eligible peers. That would require a lot of top-down coordination: identifying willing impersonators, forging documents, etc. No one has accused ACORN of anything remotely like this. In fact, ACORN seems to have the opposite problem; the fact that it failed to filter some obviously fake registration forms from its 1.3 million applications suggests, if anything, a lack of organization. That&#039;s one reason actual voter fraud is extremely rare. As Art Levine reports, &quot;only 24 people were convicted of illegal voting in federal elections between 2002 and 2005 -- and nobody was even charged by Justice with impersonating another voter. (The Justice Department declined to answer questions about more recent fraud prosecutions.) And despite the anti-immigrant frenzy fueling photo-ID laws, only 14 noncitizens were convicted of illegally voting in federal elections from 2002 through 2005 -- mostly because of their ignorance of election law.&quot; &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mi-goper &#8211; again, fraud on the part of contractors hired by Acorn to gather signatures does not constitute fraud on the part of Acorn.</p>
<p>In fact, it would be illegal for Acorn to not turn in every voter registration form submitted to a contractor, even if they did due diligence and determine it was most likely fraudulent (as they regularly do, flagging many many forms they submit as questionable).</p>
<p>This is why no Federal Attorneys have taken the charges up the line to try to actually prosecute Acorn themselves.  Do you really believe that Bush Appointees wouldn&#8217;t have leveraged the convictions and indictments you noted into a wider RICO type prosecution of Acorn itself had they had any evidence of a broader voter fraud intent?</p>
<p>As Newsweek reported:</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/10/15/cracking-the-acorn-case.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/10/15/cracking-the-acorn-case.aspx</a></p>
<blockquote><p>For voter registration fraud to become voter fraud, ACORN would have to be engaged in a widespread, covert effort to flood the polls with ineligible voters impersonating their eligible peers. That would require a lot of top-down coordination: identifying willing impersonators, forging documents, etc. No one has accused ACORN of anything remotely like this. In fact, ACORN seems to have the opposite problem; the fact that it failed to filter some obviously fake registration forms from its 1.3 million applications suggests, if anything, a lack of organization. That&#8217;s one reason actual voter fraud is extremely rare. As Art Levine reports, &#8220;only 24 people were convicted of illegal voting in federal elections between 2002 and 2005 &#8212; and nobody was even charged by Justice with impersonating another voter. (The Justice Department declined to answer questions about more recent fraud prosecutions.) And despite the anti-immigrant frenzy fueling photo-ID laws, only 14 noncitizens were convicted of illegally voting in federal elections from 2002 through 2005 &#8212; mostly because of their ignorance of election law.&#8221; </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: MI-GOPer</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/dem-health-budgeting-garbage-in-garbage-out/comment-page-4#comment-69802</link>
		<dc:creator>MI-GOPer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14299#comment-69802</guid>
		<description>ottoBS, thanks for admitting your errors.  Where do I send your prize of an autographed &quot;OJ was Innocent&quot; football?

ACORN is all about the fraud... voter fraud, IRS fraud, housing advisory fraud, corporate governance fraud, political fraud, money laundering, abetting criminal activities, etc.

And Obama is squarely, solidly, deeply in the middle of it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ottoBS, thanks for admitting your errors.  Where do I send your prize of an autographed &#8220;OJ was Innocent&#8221; football?</p>
<p>ACORN is all about the fraud&#8230; voter fraud, IRS fraud, housing advisory fraud, corporate governance fraud, political fraud, money laundering, abetting criminal activities, etc.</p>
<p>And Obama is squarely, solidly, deeply in the middle of it all.</p>
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		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/dem-health-budgeting-garbage-in-garbage-out/comment-page-4#comment-69755</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14299#comment-69755</guid>
		<description>mi-goper // Oct 27, 2009 at 9:48 am

........You are such a blinding example of current Republican unreality and lack of proportion .....thanks for these examples....but .........You&#039;re obviously not a lawyer because one of the first questions a lawyers asks &quot;is it material&quot;......by all means focus on this trivia which is hardly on the public radar outside of right wing fanatics like yourself.......it&#039;s basically minor as to be honest is the Republican fraud......but persevere in trying to turn this molehill into a mountain because it all just goes to reinforce a general perception that the Republicans have got a their priorities all wrong</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mi-goper // Oct 27, 2009 at 9:48 am</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;..You are such a blinding example of current Republican unreality and lack of proportion &#8230;..thanks for these examples&#8230;.but &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;You&#8217;re obviously not a lawyer because one of the first questions a lawyers asks &#8220;is it material&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;by all means focus on this trivia which is hardly on the public radar outside of right wing fanatics like yourself&#8230;&#8230;.it&#8217;s basically minor as to be honest is the Republican fraud&#8230;&#8230;but persevere in trying to turn this molehill into a mountain because it all just goes to reinforce a general perception that the Republicans have got a their priorities all wrong</p>
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		<title>By: MI-GOPer</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/dem-health-budgeting-garbage-in-garbage-out/comment-page-3#comment-69753</link>
		<dc:creator>MI-GOPer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14299#comment-69753</guid>
		<description>It really says something that even the far Left democrat trolls here can&#039;t come to admit that ACORN is a corrupting, evil force in our election process... that Obama has a deep and strong attachment to that group and still profits from ACORN being viable... that democrats have used the levers of govt to aid and support ACORN even in the face of widespread voter fraud and corruption not seen since the days of Andy Jackson&#039;s Democrat Party.

Oh wait, these are the guys still saying OJ is innocent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It really says something that even the far Left democrat trolls here can&#8217;t come to admit that ACORN is a corrupting, evil force in our election process&#8230; that Obama has a deep and strong attachment to that group and still profits from ACORN being viable&#8230; that democrats have used the levers of govt to aid and support ACORN even in the face of widespread voter fraud and corruption not seen since the days of Andy Jackson&#8217;s Democrat Party.</p>
<p>Oh wait, these are the guys still saying OJ is innocent.</p>
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		<title>By: MI-GOPer</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/dem-health-budgeting-garbage-in-garbage-out/comment-page-3#comment-69752</link>
		<dc:creator>MI-GOPer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14299#comment-69752</guid>
		<description>ottoBS, on cue, proclaims: &quot;whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty&quot;?

PS&gt; see why your dismissal of the OJ analogy was a tad premature?  What a tool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ottoBS, on cue, proclaims: &#8220;whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty&#8221;?</p>
<p>PS&gt; see why your dismissal of the OJ analogy was a tad premature?  What a tool.</p>
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		<title>By: MI-GOPer</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/dem-health-budgeting-garbage-in-garbage-out/comment-page-3#comment-69751</link>
		<dc:creator>MI-GOPer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14299#comment-69751</guid>
		<description>lfc at #49 joined the &quot;deaf, dumb &amp; blind&quot; section of the peanut gallery with this gem: &quot;ACORN has never been nailed on voter fraud. In fact, voter fraud of any real scale is nearly impossible without manipulating the tallies after the fact, rather than trying to get large numbers of people to vote fraudulently.&quot;

Please see above at #71, lfc.  The trolls have become ACORN tools.  I guess the squirrels are right... the nuts don&#039;t fall far from the trees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lfc at #49 joined the &#8220;deaf, dumb &amp; blind&#8221; section of the peanut gallery with this gem: &#8220;ACORN has never been nailed on voter fraud. In fact, voter fraud of any real scale is nearly impossible without manipulating the tallies after the fact, rather than trying to get large numbers of people to vote fraudulently.&#8221;</p>
<p>Please see above at #71, lfc.  The trolls have become ACORN tools.  I guess the squirrels are right&#8230; the nuts don&#8217;t fall far from the trees.</p>
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