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	<title>Comments on: Romneycare Sure Looks Like Obamacare</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/defending-romneycare</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: Slatest</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/defending-romneycare/comment-page-1#comment-90446</link>
		<dc:creator>Slatest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=24722#comment-90446</guid>
		<description>[...] to the approach we took in Massachusetts.&#8221; (Would that be the Massachusetts approach that commentators say Obama&#8217;s reform bill is modeled after? Mitt Romney&#8217;s Massachusetts approach?) In a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to the approach we took in Massachusetts.&#8221; (Would that be the Massachusetts approach that commentators say Obama&#8217;s reform bill is modeled after? Mitt Romney&#8217;s Massachusetts approach?) In a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stumblers.Net &#8250; Conservatives: Quit Whining, You Got What You Wanted</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/defending-romneycare/comment-page-1#comment-87482</link>
		<dc:creator>Stumblers.Net &#8250; Conservatives: Quit Whining, You Got What You Wanted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=24722#comment-87482</guid>
		<description>[...] as a slam and then they started lying about what it involved. It&#8217;s not that different from the plan Mitt Romney signed into law in Massachusetts. It doesn&#8217;t even include a Public Option. What this means is that we [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] as a slam and then they started lying about what it involved. It&#8217;s not that different from the plan Mitt Romney signed into law in Massachusetts. It doesn&#8217;t even include a Public Option. What this means is that we [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hot Air &#187; Blog Archive &#187; ObamaCare blasted by &#8230; Mitt Romney</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/defending-romneycare/comment-page-1#comment-87413</link>
		<dc:creator>Hot Air &#187; Blog Archive &#187; ObamaCare blasted by &#8230; Mitt Romney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=24722#comment-87413</guid>
		<description>[...] reform &#8212; but there&#8217;s really no question who the loser is, as both critics and supporters alike have discerned a striking resemblance between RomneyCare and the bouncing baby behemoth born [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reform &#8212; but there&#8217;s really no question who the loser is, as both critics and supporters alike have discerned a striking resemblance between RomneyCare and the bouncing baby behemoth born [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Graham: ‘No Way In The World’ Is Massachusetts’ Health Care Plan Similar To The Democratic Proposal &#124; thehitjob.com</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/defending-romneycare/comment-page-1#comment-85883</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham: ‘No Way In The World’ Is Massachusetts’ Health Care Plan Similar To The Democratic Proposal &#124; thehitjob.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 03:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=24722#comment-85883</guid>
		<description>[...] public option has now vanished from the Obama plan. Which means that the federal plan bears a closer family resemblance than ever to Romney’s idea,&#8221; former Bush speech writer David Frum observed. American [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] public option has now vanished from the Obama plan. Which means that the federal plan bears a closer family resemblance than ever to Romney’s idea,&#8221; former Bush speech writer David Frum observed. American [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Graham: ‘No Way In The World’ Is Massachusetts’ Health Care Plan Similar To The Democratic Proposal &#124; No Bull. news service.</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/defending-romneycare/comment-page-1#comment-85829</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham: ‘No Way In The World’ Is Massachusetts’ Health Care Plan Similar To The Democratic Proposal &#124; No Bull. news service.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=24722#comment-85829</guid>
		<description>[...] public option has now vanished from the Obama plan. Which means that the federal plan bears a closer family resemblance than ever to Romney’s idea,&#8221; former Bush speech writer David Frum observed. American [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] public option has now vanished from the Obama plan. Which means that the federal plan bears a closer family resemblance than ever to Romney’s idea,&#8221; former Bush speech writer David Frum observed. American [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kevin47</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/defending-romneycare/comment-page-1#comment-85708</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 05:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=24722#comment-85708</guid>
		<description>&quot;Not sure that coverage for all isn’t a component to cost containment, as the costs to providers for the uninsured simply gets passed to the insured (in the form of skyrocketing premiums), tax payers and care costs tomake up the difference.&quot;

Studies have shown that care for the uninsured has little impact on premiums.  Not a non-existent impact, but not enough that eliminating the problem would make a dent in the cost of healthcare.  People who are uninsured tend to receive less care.  If they are insured, they are going to receive more care, which will drive up costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Not sure that coverage for all isn’t a component to cost containment, as the costs to providers for the uninsured simply gets passed to the insured (in the form of skyrocketing premiums), tax payers and care costs tomake up the difference.&#8221;</p>
<p>Studies have shown that care for the uninsured has little impact on premiums.  Not a non-existent impact, but not enough that eliminating the problem would make a dent in the cost of healthcare.  People who are uninsured tend to receive less care.  If they are insured, they are going to receive more care, which will drive up costs.</p>
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		<title>By: aDude</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/defending-romneycare/comment-page-1#comment-85701</link>
		<dc:creator>aDude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 03:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=24722#comment-85701</guid>
		<description>Health care finance reform (whether RomneyCare or ObamaCare) is always easier than health care cost containment because the net effect on 80% of the population is minimal.  They have health insurance through their employer before reform, and they have exactly the same plan after.

Cost containment affects everybody.  Here in Cleveland we have an excellent model of cost containment - the Cleveland Clinic.  Best health care in the country and at a much lower price than the national average.

But the reason for this is that it is a very large organization with salaried doctors, lots of medical specialists, and a highly trained administrative support staff.  It is therefore the antithesis of the model of the individual entrepreneur.

In a typical private doctor&#039;s office, you will have the doctor, two nurses, a receptionist who doubles as appointments secretary, and four or five people in the back who&#039;s sole duty is to deal with insurance companies.  The doctor will also spend at least two hours of every eight hour day on the phone arguing with insurance companies.  In the end it is a very inefficient way to run a business.

Cleveland Clinic has 2000 doctors and just 1400 insurance admins.  The doctors rarely have to spend any time on the phone dealing with insurance companies.  It is medicine that works.

However, if all doctors were required to accept the same level of payments that the Cleveland Clinic can accept, then they would rather quickly be forced out of individual practice and into ever larger group practices.  And that would affect just about everyone.  That is much more difficult to achieve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Health care finance reform (whether RomneyCare or ObamaCare) is always easier than health care cost containment because the net effect on 80% of the population is minimal.  They have health insurance through their employer before reform, and they have exactly the same plan after.</p>
<p>Cost containment affects everybody.  Here in Cleveland we have an excellent model of cost containment &#8211; the Cleveland Clinic.  Best health care in the country and at a much lower price than the national average.</p>
<p>But the reason for this is that it is a very large organization with salaried doctors, lots of medical specialists, and a highly trained administrative support staff.  It is therefore the antithesis of the model of the individual entrepreneur.</p>
<p>In a typical private doctor&#8217;s office, you will have the doctor, two nurses, a receptionist who doubles as appointments secretary, and four or five people in the back who&#8217;s sole duty is to deal with insurance companies.  The doctor will also spend at least two hours of every eight hour day on the phone arguing with insurance companies.  In the end it is a very inefficient way to run a business.</p>
<p>Cleveland Clinic has 2000 doctors and just 1400 insurance admins.  The doctors rarely have to spend any time on the phone dealing with insurance companies.  It is medicine that works.</p>
<p>However, if all doctors were required to accept the same level of payments that the Cleveland Clinic can accept, then they would rather quickly be forced out of individual practice and into ever larger group practices.  And that would affect just about everyone.  That is much more difficult to achieve.</p>
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		<title>By: Chekote</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/defending-romneycare/comment-page-1#comment-85688</link>
		<dc:creator>Chekote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=24722#comment-85688</guid>
		<description>Sinz

How are you feeling? I want you to know that a group of us have introduced resolutions to change the GOP party platform in Texas. We have been nominated to the State Senatorial Convention as delegates and have interviewed to become delegates to the State Convention. We will change that crazy Texas GOP platform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sinz</p>
<p>How are you feeling? I want you to know that a group of us have introduced resolutions to change the GOP party platform in Texas. We have been nominated to the State Senatorial Convention as delegates and have interviewed to become delegates to the State Convention. We will change that crazy Texas GOP platform.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Yglesias &#187; RomneyCare and ObamaCare</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/defending-romneycare/comment-page-1#comment-85673</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Yglesias &#187; RomneyCare and ObamaCare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=24722#comment-85673</guid>
		<description>[...] not only does the Obama health plan look a lot like what Mitt Romney signed in Massachusetts, it looks a lot like what Romney proposes in his book, only Romney can&#8217;t bring himself to admit it: Romney sharply distinguishes his healthcare [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] not only does the Obama health plan look a lot like what Mitt Romney signed in Massachusetts, it looks a lot like what Romney proposes in his book, only Romney can&#8217;t bring himself to admit it: Romney sharply distinguishes his healthcare [...]</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/defending-romneycare/comment-page-1#comment-85661</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frumforum.com/?p=24722#comment-85661</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;And bringing lots of disadvantaged people into the system–people who have to be subsidized–is the exact opposite of cost containment.&lt;/b&gt;

Maybe, maybe not.

First of all, the people without jobs already have healthcare.  It&#039;s called Medicaid.  And if Medicaid means they have to wait a lot in waiting rooms for service, etc, no big deal, since the unemployed aren&#039;t contributing to the economy.

But then we have all those people who are working ... but don&#039;t really make enough money to pay for insurance, and whose usually avoid needed primary care because a $75 office visit fee puts a serious dent in the monthly budget, and whose finances could be wiped out in an instant with any real medical emergency.

People say &quot;there are free clinics&quot; ... sure, that is a great option for someone who has to work 40 or 50 hours a week at barely above minimum wage, and also get home to take care of kids.  They have soooo much time to travel across town and sit around and wait for a free clinic to be able to see them.  And societally, those workers having to miss work, either due to untreated illness, or even to having to take too much time to get medical care at an overswamped free clinic, has a cost that we all bear.

People say &quot;if they get sick, they can go to the emergency room&quot;.  Yeah, that&#039;s an efficient allocation of societal resources.

Not to mention the societal burden created whenever anyone has to declare bankruptcy.

The problem is that our current system causes a myriad of costs that get buried.  Hell - even the &quot;administrative costs&quot; of insurance are vastly understated by just talking about the costs embedded in the insurance companies budgets ... since hospitals and larger medical practices all end up having to dedicate a serious amount of administrative overhead time to fighting with insurers, filing and re-filing paperwork.  And I can only guess how much having to deal with a patient who declares bankruptcy must be.

Overall societal costs are improved if we go to universal insurance.   The alternative is just continuing to play chicken with healthcare system meltdown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And bringing lots of disadvantaged people into the system–people who have to be subsidized–is the exact opposite of cost containment.</p>
<p>Maybe, maybe not.</p>
<p>First of all, the people without jobs already have healthcare.  It&#8217;s called Medicaid.  And if Medicaid means they have to wait a lot in waiting rooms for service, etc, no big deal, since the unemployed aren&#8217;t contributing to the economy.</p>
<p>But then we have all those people who are working &#8230; but don&#8217;t really make enough money to pay for insurance, and whose usually avoid needed primary care because a $75 office visit fee puts a serious dent in the monthly budget, and whose finances could be wiped out in an instant with any real medical emergency.</p>
<p>People say &#8220;there are free clinics&#8221; &#8230; sure, that is a great option for someone who has to work 40 or 50 hours a week at barely above minimum wage, and also get home to take care of kids.  They have soooo much time to travel across town and sit around and wait for a free clinic to be able to see them.  And societally, those workers having to miss work, either due to untreated illness, or even to having to take too much time to get medical care at an overswamped free clinic, has a cost that we all bear.</p>
<p>People say &#8220;if they get sick, they can go to the emergency room&#8221;.  Yeah, that&#8217;s an efficient allocation of societal resources.</p>
<p>Not to mention the societal burden created whenever anyone has to declare bankruptcy.</p>
<p>The problem is that our current system causes a myriad of costs that get buried.  Hell &#8211; even the &#8220;administrative costs&#8221; of insurance are vastly understated by just talking about the costs embedded in the insurance companies budgets &#8230; since hospitals and larger medical practices all end up having to dedicate a serious amount of administrative overhead time to fighting with insurers, filing and re-filing paperwork.  And I can only guess how much having to deal with a patient who declares bankruptcy must be.</p>
<p>Overall societal costs are improved if we go to universal insurance.   The alternative is just continuing to play chicken with healthcare system meltdown.</p>
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