The great breathtaking conservative hope for 2010 is the possibility of unseating Senator Barbara Boxer in California. Boxer is one of the least popular Democrats in the Senate -- and of course California ranks among the most troubled states in the union. This makes the Republican Senate nomination a hugely valuable prize -- and an awesome responsibility. To whom should it go? There are now three first-tier candidates for the job: former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, former congressman and California director of finance Tom Campbell, and state senator Chuck DeVore. FrumForum will talk over the coming days to all three.
First up: Chuck DeVore -- in video!
Sound quality less than perfect, but DeVore makes up for it with the comprehensiveness of his answers to some tough questions.
James Cody // Jan 17, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Comprehensiveness to tough questions? He spits out standard ideological nonsense that is not rooted in any way in data, facts, or serious public policy analysis. Look, we’re all pissed off that TARP had to pass to save the economy from collapse. But anyone who thinks that letting the banks failed was the right thing to do and wouldn’t have led to a Great Depression is (a) extraordinarily ignorant, (b) so ideologically driven that he’s completely blind to reality, and/or (c) a flat-out liar.
And that’s just one example. He says that TARP (and implicitly all the other government efforts of the fall of 2008) didn’t unfreeze the credit markets despite every single credit indicator (LIBOR, TED spread, A2/P2 spread, intra-bank lending, etc) showing that the markets have significantly unfrozen. He’s gonna fix the long-term debt problem by slashing taxes by trillions of dollars but “simply hold the line on appropriations” to pay for the tax cuts AND the existing debt problem. He says that the corporate tax rate is one of the highest in the world while ignoring the mathematical fact that the EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate (i.e., the tax rate once you include deductions) is one of the lowest in the world.
There are certain positions that are serious and valid, e.g., there are serious bases for opposing the fiscal stimulus or universal health care (not that the GOP has been making those arguments instead of going all Sarah Palin), but there are positions that are just absurd and in no way serious, like saying TARP failed or that you can cut taxes by trillions of dollars as the SOLUTION to the debt problem. This guy is a buffoon who is a perfect example of the fact that there is only one political party in this country that at least occasionally is actually serious about public policy (and that ain’t the GOP).
sinz54 // Jan 17, 2010 at 12:55 pm
James Cody:
What are you talking about???
TARP came from the BUSH Administration originally. Bush and Paulson had to push it over the opposition of both the hard-core right AND the hard-core Left. (Maybe you forgot that the Congressional Progressive Caucus opposed it.)
Also, the conservative National Review, normally staunchly Republican, supported TARP as a necessary evil.
And that’s a good thing. Because if we had to wait for TARP till after Obama got inaugurated, the economy would have declined even further.
sinz54 // Jan 17, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Chuck DeVore is just wrong about TARP. He’s talking like the Cato Institute–a libertarian rather than a traditional Republican: Let’s leave the economy alone and it will fix itself.
He also ignored the fact that the firewall between the banking system and the financial (stock) system had long since disappeared. We had $40 trillion (that’s TRILLION) in outstanding Credit Default Swaps (CDS) alone, most of which were turning out to be worthless. That’s more than the GDP of the entire United States for three years.
Bush, to his credit, acted like a conservative–to conserve the institutions that keep the American economy going–rather than like a libertarian or a Randian. The GOP base has to stop talking like Ayn Rand. Economists have learned a lot more about economics since she was alive.
ltoro1 // Jan 17, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Sinz the 40 trillion is what is known as the notional amount which is not the same as the amount someone would have to come up with in the event of a default. Although I have a degree in finance this is not my line of work so I will have to dig out my books to give you better information.
ltoro1 // Jan 17, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Let’s also not forget that Rand was not an economist.
ltoro1 // Jan 17, 2010 at 3:38 pm
James, I think your comment regarding the statutory tax rate versus the effective tax rate is actually an argument in favor of tax reform. I would submit that the deductions, credits, etc. lead to misallocations of capital which make us less wealthy as a nation.
communists-basher // Jan 18, 2010 at 5:00 am
There you go again … the Cody’s, the sinz’s and the ltoro’s …. all bashing free market system and claiming that TARP done some good. Purposely throwing some fake indicators (LIBOR, TED spread, A2/P2 spread, intra-bank lending) maintained by the same banks that were forced into easing by the Obama’s camp Radicals and now are forced by the same Radicals to un-ease. HAHAHAHA.
They don’t care that the real interest rates are actually negative (if account for inflation).
They also bash great Ayn Rand who intelligently predicted these Radicals ans what they will do.
They most likely (unlike Chuck DeVore) believe in Keynesian economics, disappearing of money, deflationary recession and that economy is improving, and most important, that this crisis was a systemic failure and that the free-market system must be regulated/stimulated otherwise it’ll continue to fail.
They also believe that gold is not an investment because it pays no dividends.
They believe that we were in the Recession though by definition we were Not. The recession can be declared after two consecutive quarters of negative GDP but we only had one with negative GDP!
They also believe that the indicators show some stabilizing of the economy while they only show temporary distortions caused by TARP.
They believe in all that sh***t because this is what they were taught by Left Radical Intellectual Elite professors who traded the true Economics for some sh***t long time ago.
They actually believe that we had Depression in the 1930’s while the average household had consumed more meat and more butter then in the 1920’s.
They believe in ANYTHING that they teach them about modern economics and in ANYTHING that Media tells them.
They call those who disagree Libertarians (means Idiots) and they say things like “Economists have learned a lot more about economics since she was alive” while Economics do not change!
They ignore or purposely deny any knowledge of past economic catastrophes in Germany, Japan, Zimbabwe or Russia.
As such, they are either trolls working for Obama, supporting Obama’s propaganda or misunderstanding the true economics.
Damaging enough, they also say b.s like “in the US, EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate (i.e., the tax rate once you include deductions) is one of the lowest in the world” … while effective corporate tax rates in the US are in the range of 26% – 36%, and in Ireland they are 11%-13%.
Go Chuck DeVore !!!!
sinz54 // Jan 18, 2010 at 9:25 am
communists-basher:
Ayn Rand said that she was a radical (a “radical for capitalism,” she called herself).
The United States has always had a mixed economy. We’ve never been laissez-faire. And we will continue to have a mixed economy, come what may.
So anyone who uses “Atlas Shrugged” as their bible on economics doesn’t know what they’re talking about, and they are out of the mainstream of American thinking.
ltoro1 // Jan 18, 2010 at 9:40 am
communists-basher, I can’t speak for sinz or cody, but I would like for you to document any of your accusations against me. I am not nor have I ever been a Keynesian or an Obama supporter.
ltoro1 // Jan 18, 2010 at 9:49 am
Sinz I would argue that anything but a mixed economy only exists in a utopian fantasy, either libertarian or communist.
ltoro1 // Jan 18, 2010 at 10:03 am
communists-basher, I would hardly consider the LIBOR a phony indicator. If you have or have ever had a mortgage, car loan, or credit card the LIBOR was probably used to calculate your interest rate. Also, while it is in my opinion a weakness in out tax system, the differences between statutory tax rates and effective tax rates are far from B.S. They are extremely important to individuals and businesses who have to determine the after tax cost of their daily decisions.
Newbigtech // Jan 18, 2010 at 7:09 pm
ANYONE that can take out BOXER has MY Support… She is crazier than a S%*! house rat.
He does have to get it together and speak english … to the real people.