Comments on: Can We Cut a Deal with the Mullahs? http://www.frumforum.com/can-we-cut-a-deal-with-the-mullahs Building a conservatism that can win again Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:50:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: ATLANTIC: Playing Nice With Iran http://www.frumforum.com/can-we-cut-a-deal-with-the-mullahs/comment-page-1#comment-84857 ATLANTIC: Playing Nice With Iran Fri, 05 Mar 2010 13:46:55 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=23931#comment-84857 [...] false;} Frum attended a debate on Iran between Michael Ledeen and Flynt Leverett: [Leverett] acknowledges past attempts [...] [...] false;} Frum attended a debate on Iran between Michael Ledeen and Flynt Leverett: [Leverett] acknowledges past attempts [...]

]]> By: sinz54 http://www.frumforum.com/can-we-cut-a-deal-with-the-mullahs/comment-page-1#comment-84825 sinz54 Fri, 05 Mar 2010 01:32:13 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=23931#comment-84825 Carney: <blockquote> We need to be doing a lot more to exploit this, such as recognizing independence claims, governments in exile, etc. </blockquote> I don't think you got my point. If one has the capability to build nuclear weapons, one is stupid not to build them. I don't care who is running Iran. I don't care if parts of Iran declare their autonomy. Whoever is still in Tehran would be foolish to give up their own trump card. South Africa was stupid to give up nukes. I would NEVER have done that, if I were in charge there. Carney: We need to be doing a lot more to exploit this, such as recognizing independence claims, governments in exile, etc.
I don’t think you got my point.

If one has the capability to build nuclear weapons,
one is stupid not to build them.

I don’t care who is running Iran.
I don’t care if parts of Iran declare their autonomy.
Whoever is still in Tehran would be foolish to give up their own trump card.

South Africa was stupid to give up nukes.
I would NEVER have done that, if I were in charge there.

]]> By: Welcome | Project on Middle East Democracy http://www.frumforum.com/can-we-cut-a-deal-with-the-mullahs/comment-page-1#comment-84766 Welcome | Project on Middle East Democracy Thu, 04 Mar 2010 18:20:53 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=23931#comment-84766 [...] Frum highlights the principal arguments. First: Leverett’s key point: …Leverett claims Iranians have in fact cooperated on the [...] [...] Frum highlights the principal arguments. First: Leverett’s key point: …Leverett claims Iranians have in fact cooperated on the [...]

]]> By: Carney http://www.frumforum.com/can-we-cut-a-deal-with-the-mullahs/comment-page-1#comment-84765 Carney Thu, 04 Mar 2010 18:20:19 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=23931#comment-84765 sinz54, not all the Iranian people are Iranian, that is to say Persian. In fact, only 51% are. The rest - Azeris, Kurds, Arabs, Balochs, etc., are under the domination of a Persian empire and are much closer to the nation-states or proto-nation-states they directly border. To put it another way, "Iran" has borders that slice right through peoples who would rather live together, and apart from Teheran. We need to be doing a lot more to exploit this, such as recognizing independence claims, governments in exile, etc. sinz54, not all the Iranian people are Iranian, that is to say Persian. In fact, only 51% are. The rest – Azeris, Kurds, Arabs, Balochs, etc., are under the domination of a Persian empire and are much closer to the nation-states or proto-nation-states they directly border. To put it another way, “Iran” has borders that slice right through peoples who would rather live together, and apart from Teheran. We need to be doing a lot more to exploit this, such as recognizing independence claims, governments in exile, etc.

]]> By: sinz54 http://www.frumforum.com/can-we-cut-a-deal-with-the-mullahs/comment-page-1#comment-84738 sinz54 Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:41:06 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=23931#comment-84738 It doesn't matter whether the U.S. negotiates with Iran. Iran will test-fire its nuke in any case--unless it's stopped by outside economic or military pressure. The reasons are cultural, historical, and ideological. Iran does not want to end up like Iraq--invaded by a foreign power in pursuit of regime change. The toppling of Mossadegh by Western action was for legitimate strategic reasons, but the Iranians are still sore about it and want to make sure there is no repetition. Iran wants very much to be respected as a world power. Even the young Iranian dissidents want that. And nukes are a short cut to that kind of respect. And the current regime wants very much to keep on humiliating the United States. They hate the United States with a passion, for its promulgation of secular government. They proved that in 1979, with their seizure of American hostages against every precept of international law. The test-firing of a nuke would flush 30 years of American foreign policy toward Iran right down the drain. So Mr. Leverett is wrong. Unilateral concessions won't stop Iran from getting nukes. And Mr. Ledeen is wrong too. Support for the Iranian dissidents won't stop Iran from getting nukes. All the Iranian people love nukes. It doesn’t matter whether the U.S. negotiates with Iran. Iran will test-fire its nuke in any case–unless it’s stopped by outside economic or military pressure. The reasons are cultural, historical, and ideological.

Iran does not want to end up like Iraq–invaded by a foreign power in pursuit of regime change. The toppling of Mossadegh by Western action was for legitimate strategic reasons, but the Iranians are still sore about it and want to make sure there is no repetition.

Iran wants very much to be respected as a world power. Even the young Iranian dissidents want that. And nukes are a short cut to that kind of respect.

And the current regime wants very much to keep on humiliating the United States. They hate the United States with a passion, for its promulgation of secular government. They proved that in 1979, with their seizure of American hostages against every precept of international law. The test-firing of a nuke would flush 30 years of American foreign policy toward Iran right down the drain.

So Mr. Leverett is wrong. Unilateral concessions won’t stop Iran from getting nukes.
And Mr. Ledeen is wrong too. Support for the Iranian dissidents won’t stop Iran from getting nukes. All the Iranian people love nukes.

]]> By: GOProud http://www.frumforum.com/can-we-cut-a-deal-with-the-mullahs/comment-page-1#comment-84663 GOProud Wed, 03 Mar 2010 21:57:32 +0000 http://www.frumforum.com/?p=23931#comment-84663 David, Big Hugs Heal. Iran, North Korea and Syria and other threats to freedom (terrorists) deserve Obama's love, Obama's apology, Obama's submission to their collective needs. Big Hugs Heal is the new, Cowboy politics was the old. Get with the program. David, Big Hugs Heal.

Iran, North Korea and Syria and other threats to freedom (terrorists) deserve Obama’s love, Obama’s apology, Obama’s submission to their collective needs.

Big Hugs Heal is the new, Cowboy politics was the old. Get with the program.

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