I spent more than half my life in the Orient. In Thailand, they bow but slightly different from the Japanese. When I was stationed in Okinawa I did my time in the karate dojo and that included a formal class in how to bow properly. A common theme is the person of lower rank bows lower; how low he or she goes depends on the relative rank of the other person.
There is a whole dynamic going on with Obama’s bow- the President of the United States is equal (if not superior) to the Emperor of Japan. If Obama wanted to execute a courtesy bow, a slight bend forward at the waist followed by a slight nod of the head while maintaining eye contact would have been appropriate.
Westerners are not accustomed to bowing, and we are generally ignorant of the nuances of this custom. It’s not that we’re considered rude for not bowing- we’re considered savage hairy barbarians to begin with, the fact that we don’t bow or don’t know how to bow just compounds the issue.
There is a right way and a wrong way to do it. What Obama did has the Japanese (and the rest of East Asia) rolling in fits of laughter, because it is the bow an employee gives to his boss, or a child gives to parents. He went WAY too low; it is only one step above a kow-tow.
Compare Obama’s bow with how he conducted himself in the company of the Queen of England, and then contrast this with the way he leaned forward to bow and scrape before the King of Saudi Arabia; this certainly leaves a lot of room to wonder about which direction this man’s sentiments lie.
I am an American. The only King I bow and pay homage to is Elvis.
Sean Linnane also blogs at STORMBRINGER.
67 responses so far
1 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 9:47 am
Sean, it’s all part of the Obama’s World Wide Apology Tour. Liberals and Democrats have long held that America needs to beg the rest of the world for some forgiveness for all the sins of Bush… or Reagan… or Nixon… or Ford.
Obama got the bow wrong before his Supreme Highness (but no longer Divine) Emperor. But hey, he can chant the call to Morning Prayers in perfect Indonesian muslim accent.
That’s gotta count for something, even if the Obama gets the grovel thing all wrong. And he did. Laughingly wrong.
BTW, have repaid the Japanese for threatening to invade their sovereign nation in Opertaion Downfall in 1945? What were we thinking, anyway?? The utter cheekiness of it all.
2 balconesfault // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:05 am
I look forward to Obama’s bowing skills being a centerpoint of the 2012 campaign against him, as the Republicans pledge a candidate who really knows the correct etiquette for bowing.
3 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:14 am
…….planning on running a workshop on bowing are we Linnane……you’ll be moving onto ballet lessons then of course…..I bet you look great in a tutu
4 sinz54 // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:15 am
MI-GOPer:
The further left one is on the political spectrum,
the further back in time he believes America’s sins extend:
Mainstream Dems think we should regret Vietnam.
Liberals think we should also regret having provoked Russia into the Cold War.
Ultra-liberals think we should also regret A-bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Black activists think we should also regret having founded this Republic with slavery.
Socialists (like Zinn) think we should regret the day that Columbus discovered America.
Greenpeace thinks it was a disaster for this planet when Homo Sapiens appeared.
5 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:21 am
BlankHead again tries to employ humor to avoid confronting the harsh realities of a failed presidency by the Obama.
It isn’t the bow that will hurt him in 2012 or all Democrats in 2010. It’s the WorldWide Apology Tour. It’s turning the NYC civil court terrorists into show-pieces for alQaeda recruiters. It’s the massive deficits. It’s the lies. It’s the mismanagement of the economy. It the politics of corruption that seethes in the sewers of the Democrat Congress and connects them directly to ACORN. It’s the Independents buying into the message of the GOP… and they are… Obama has lost the independent voters by vast margins in every state save Oregon and Hawaii.
Yeow. And it will mostly depend upon the Republicans continuing to point out Obama’s staggering deficencies –with great symbols like Obama groveling to a non-player, forgotten Emperor who is influential over nothing but a cup of tea.
Even a blog like the Frum Forum is quite willing to help the GOP advance that message. Ouch.
6 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:28 am
MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:21 am
…….another member of the corps de ballet gives us the benefit of his expertise on the social standing of the Mikado in his own country
7 jabbermule // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:31 am
balconesfault: “I look forward to Obama’s bowing skills being a centerpoint of the 2012 campaign against him, as the Republicans pledge a candidate who really knows the correct etiquette for bowing.”
I’d be content enough if the Republicans ran a candidate that didn’t bow at all, to anyone.
8 balconesfault // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:41 am
sinz: Liberals think we should also regret having provoked Russia into the Cold War.
Really?
Can you tell me what percentage of the Democratic Party, if you’re making “Democrat” synonomyous with “liberal”, you would say believes this?
I call this a strawman, but I’m interested in seeing if you really believe this to be a widely held sentiment among Democrats.
Ultra-liberals think we should also regret A-bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Do you consider Pope Benedict, who described Hiroshima and Nagasaki as “atomic energy used for bellicose aims”, to be an Ultra-liberal?
Black activists think we should also regret having founded this Republic with slavery.
I’ve gotta say that I’d think anyone with a shred of morality would regret that slavery was legal in the US for the first 80 or so years of our national existence. If that makes me a black activist, so be it.
Greenpeace thinks it was a disaster for this planet when Homo Sapiens appeared.
You really should add smileys.
9 cpanza // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:41 am
Jabber said:
“I’d be content enough if the Republicans ran a candidate that didn’t bow at all, to anyone.”
I wonder if this is a very telling commentary on the state of Republican attitudes in general.
10 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:41 am
jabbermule // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:31 am
“I’d be content enough if the Republicans ran a candidate that didn’t bow at all, to anyone.”
……one wonders whether your parents taught you any manners at all……in church even if you don’t believe in god you obey the rituals…….bowing in Japan is the norm……I’ve done it lots of times…….since unlike Linnane I never attended classes(an hilarious concept) to teach me how to do it I’m sure I got it wrong……however I haven’t since spent years since agonizing about it……the current obsession of people like linnane with this subject suggests a somewhat juvenile outlook shall we say
11 balconesfault // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:43 am
jabbermule: I’d be content enough if the Republicans ran a candidate that didn’t bow at all, to anyone.
On the other hand … it seems like the same people who are now making a big deal about Obama’s bow, only a few months ago were making a big deal that our First Lady did not show proper deference to the Queen of England.
12 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:46 am
sinz: Liberals think we should also regret having provoked Russia into the Cold War.
……Sinz of course has never heard of the Berlin airlift or the Truman doctrine or NATO or containment or the Marshall plan……..in fact his mind is complete blank on the subject of who was in office when the strategies, institutions and alliances that ultimately led to the defeat of communism were developed…….It was the Democrats……and Republicans at the time accused the Great General George C. Marshall and Dean Acheson of being communist agents or fellow travellers so there’s nothing new about Sinz’s particular brand of inanity
13 balconesfault // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:50 am
in fact his mind is complete blank on the subject of who was in office when the strategies, institutions and alliances that ultimately led to the defeat of communism were developed
Actually, that’s not true. In other threads, it has been Sinz who has correctly pointed these things out.
He just gets carried away sometimes, in his desire to label Democrats surrendercrats. I think sometimes he’s trying to convince himself why he should continue to vote for any Republicans at all, rather than actually trying to convince anyone else.
14 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:57 am
Wow, sinz54, you’ve stirred up a virtual tempest in a teapot with the far Left democrat trolls here… did you think your overstatements and hyperbole could be mistaken for fact by the far Left trolls?
I gotta think this proves beyond a doubt the trolling brothers (BS-boi and BlankHead) have no life, have no humor, have no point to make. And that they need to use multiple fake characters and faux names to post here and reinforce each others’ comments is just lame, lame, lame.
I wonder if BlankHead needs to check his profile at HuffPo one more time… remember, he told us all he was “a conservative” before he got caught up in defending that whooper of a lie. He might just be in the wrong place afterall.
15 cheves222 // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:00 am
Wow, this is very funny. I love it when people who act as though they are so internationally-minded don’t bother to learn how to behave around foreigners. I mean, tell a staffer to make a phone call to some of our people stationed in the American embassy in Japan: “Hey, so, how should the President greet this here emperor?” Then they would have told Barack what you note above.
Good lord.
16 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:00 am
balconesfault // Nov 19, 2009 at 10:50 am
“Actually, that’s not true. In other threads, it has been Sinz who has correctly pointed these things out.”
………Schizophrenia or amnesia?…….I actually think it’s schizoid since he continually advances contradictory arguments
17 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 am
cheves222 // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:00 am
……I’m not quite sure what point you’re making…..that its the norm to bow in Japan which it is…..the white house has a chef de protocol…….I rather suspect they told the president it was appropriate to bow to the Japaneze Emperor……however I’m sure he skipped the classes
18 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:13 am
BS-boi shows us all how to spell…
1) it Chief of Protocol… and it’s a State Dept position, not the WH, BS-boi.
2) it Japanese, not “japaneze”
3) you need to get back to grammar school and relearn the differnce between its, it’s.
Whatever classes Obama skipped in your mind, you need to hit the spelling class yourself.
BTW, Politico calls it this way:
“(State Dept’s Office of Protocol says) Emperor Akihito would have been fine with a handshake, the Los Angeles Times ticks off a list of “chintzy” gifts and awkward Obama encounters with foreign leaders: “There was that promise to talk with the president of Canada. A reference to not speaking Austrian. Giving Britain’s prime minister a chintzy collection of American movie DVDs, which weren’t formatted for video players in the U.K. And Michelle Obama’s friendly or patronizing pat to the back of Queen Elizabeth, who received as her presidential gift an iPod with Broadway show tunes. The emperor of Japan, who does not bow to anyone, and his wife handled the awkward wow bow moment with regal aplomb. Japanese do not typically expect foreigners to bow anyway and often feign pleasant surprise when one is attempted.”
When you’re wrong, you are so bloody wrong it’s pathetic BS-boi. Spelling and substance.
19 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:21 am
chirp, chirp, chirp… wow, the trolls heading back under the bridge must have silenced the crickets? “When they’re wrong, they run back toward darkness for in the darkness they find solace and comfort, unable to see or be shown their own demerits.”
p’wned and discredited in three threads today… that’s a record for any troll on this site.
20 balconesfault // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:28 am
From wikipedia:
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
21 jabbermule // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:31 am
ottovbvs:
Read the article:
“If Obama wanted to execute a courtesy bow, a slight bend forward at the waist followed by a slight nod of the head while maintaining eye contact would have been appropriate.”
I’ve been in Japan twice over the past 3 years, and this is the protocol for business transactions.
“What Obama did has the Japanese (and the rest of East Asia) rolling in fits of laughter, because it is the bow an employee gives to his boss, or a child gives to parents. He went WAY too low; it is only one step above a kow-tow.”
No American head of state has bowed so low to any foreign leader, particularly to an Asian leader where such a display would invite nothing but ridicule. Learn your subject before you develop an opinion.
22 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:42 am
BlankHead, thanks for proving the substantial case against you being is a troll is defined so well in Wiki. Hey, they didn’t mention you by name, though?
By the way, did we all thank you for proving you are a regular poster at HuffPo, not a “conservative” as you claimed, and admitting that your deception on both points was forthcoming? It was forthcoming, no?
BS-boi was wrong on both policy and substance of the Obama WowBow. My point is on topic, thank you very much.
I can appreciate your loyalty in trying to help out a fellow-troll that’s underwater, but his point of dismissing Obama’s WowBow or your attempt at making light of it doesn’t diminish your Master’s failure to perform, again.
23 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:44 am
jabbermule, it’s not a kow-tow.
It’s an Obama WowBow. Get cheeky with it, would’cha?
24 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:45 am
jabbermule // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:31 am
““What Obama did has the Japanese (and the rest of East Asia) rolling in fits of laughter”
…….I read it…no one is rolling in fits of laughter apart from a few pea brained rightists in America….I’ve visited Japan perhaps 20 times over the last forty years and bowing as you say is the norm…..but no one other than a complete idiot then spends time analysing how he did it…..what this whole discussion shows is a) the truly insane level of hatred that exists for Obama among rightists and b) their totally mindless obsession with trivia
25 Rocketship7 // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:47 am
Canadian PM Stephen Harper did not bow.
Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty did not bow.
Why did Obama?
26 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:52 am
MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:13 am
1) it Chief of Protocol
……actually chef de protocol is a perfectly acceptable usage in diplomatic circles but since you’ve almost certainly never received or sent a letter to an embassy your ignorance on the subject is not surprising………but nice to see another amusing display of your monomaniacal obsession with trivia
27 goethean // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:53 am
Sean Linnane claim that the Japanese are laughing at Obama. But he does not cite a single media report to back up his claim. The most likely reason for this is that he is a liar.
28 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:55 am
goethean // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:53 am
“The most likely reason for this is that he is a liar.”
…….and a ballet dancer skilled in the ancient arts of bowing and crocheting
29 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:58 am
AutomaticBS, thanks for acknowledging your faults and correctly using the right title instead of blustering through another set of silly fake arguments to cover your mistake.
Oh wait, you didn’t, did you? Still p’wned and counting, BS-boi. You really gotta bring a better game, my friendly Village Idiot.
30 balconesfault // Nov 19, 2009 at 12:01 pm
I’m beginning to wonder if some of these trivial gaffes by Obama are a kind of rope-a-dope.
With each outburst like this, the right is going to make themselves look more trivial, and their obsession with undermining Obama on each and every thing he does that more evident.
31 cpanza // Nov 19, 2009 at 12:07 pm
If Balconesfault is a troll, then the bar for troll is so low that “someone who disagrees with me” is the most accurate definition.
Jabber: if Obama bowed too low, then I agree: he should not have done so (though it is a serious stretch to assume that if he bowed too low it was because he was trying to kow-tow on purpose). Moreover, I agree: future leaders shouldn’t bow so low either. But to claim that the best candidate is one who doesn’t bow at all displays a kind of arrogance about the American attitude that seems not just unnecessary (not to mention insecure), but likely harmful in dealing with foreign leaders.
32 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 12:14 pm
goethean, to answer your question… lots of people are laughing at Obama’s WowBow and here’s a take for you:
1) by someone who lived in Japan and teaches business execs how to bow…
“I suspect the poor Emperor was so shocked by the faux pas that he just pretended it didn’t happen. That is one way Japanese people deal with breaches of etiquette, especially from the powerful, who are also ignorant. But the end result is that Obama has been snubbed royally. Imperially, in fact.”
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/11/obamas_botched_bow.html
2) from a group that knows a thing or two about kow-towing to power:
“Does the president understand the difference between a bow and a kowtow? The Japanese media certainly do. They did not distribute the embarrassing photo of the president and the emperor to the Japanese people. Instead they chose to distribute the more conservative greeting shared between the President and the Emperor’s wife. The Japanese know the bow would demonstrate weakness on behalf of President Obama, and neither Japan nor the United States would benefit from this impression.”
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/11/16/obama-in-japan-not-a-bow-but-a-kowtow/
The far Left democrat apologist trolls on this site have been working hard to find a way to spin out of this mini-mess. They can’t. The best they can do now is nitpick, lie and say that Bush did it too… anything but admit their man is a failure at yet another part of being president.
I don’t think it’s a big deal whether Obama WowBow’ed or not… because I think he’s doing far more damage here at home than he could ever do –even if he slurped the tea at the Emperor’s homes– in Japan.
When does the Obama hit Singapore and when is he scheduled to chant the call to morning prayers at the mosque? Anyone got a schedule?
33 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 12:20 pm
MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 12:14 pm
…….these are pea brained American rightists at American Thinker and Heritage…..and this is your evidence
34 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 12:22 pm
BlankHead tries to make the “our mistakes or really double-double takes that make the Right look lame because they think we’re so stupid… they’re playing right into our trap, our game… we really gotta on the ropes now”.
BlankHead pines: “With each outburst like this, the right is going to make themselves look more trivial, and their obsession with undermining Obama on each and every thing he does that more evident.”
You need to correct something, BlankHead. It’s not rope-a-dope of the Right… for you, it’s dope on the ropes… really troll, you should get to know thyself better.
And lecturing anyone on obsessions about a political leader seems kind of ironic and hypocritical even for a troll like you… you start nearly each thread off with a tag-team rendition of Bush Bashing here. Now, that’s what I call projection on your part, BlankHead.
35 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 12:23 pm
pea brained? Hey, maybe they have a chef du protocol? I can see if they can whip you up a dish of smarts, BS-boi.
36 Raider1 // Nov 19, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Either he really believes the US needs a dose of humble pie (vicariously through him like some jesus figure taking all of our sins unto himself) or he is more ignorant of how the world really works, teleprompters aside. Either way, we have a child president who is in WAY over his head. I wish libs hadn’t been so desperate to show how much they are not racists by electing a black man as president to make themselves feel good about themselves (even though with his lack of qualifications, if he were a white candidate he’d have never made it to Iowa…thereby showing that they gave him a pass, preferential treatment because of race and therefore were racists!).
In the real world, not bizarro liberal world. any man like Obama who had the “audacity” to believe he was qualified for POTUS would have been laughed away. But, we know why he is there…and now we have a man who has never even run a popcorn stand now in the most powerful office on earth. Hope and change! Yay!
37 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Raider1, that’s not being fair. You just stop it!
Obama was the CEO of a huge, multimillion dollar organization before becoming President –ok, its was his election organization and he didn’t have to make any of the decisions… so it’s like he was already president, no?
He was the leader and statesman in the US Senate after having been trained by the best politicians money can buy in the Illinois Senate.
He was a skilled diplomat, traveling as far away as Africa and willingly wearing silly hats and dresses and bowing to men with animal bones in their noses.
He married well to someone who’s got some mighty wide back. In the eyes of the MSM, he was a one-time comparable equal of Lincoln, Washington, Roosevelt and Allah. He is the Hope we’ve been waiting for.
So what if he gets the Act of President all wrong. He’s likable. He’s lovable. He cried for all of us when Michael Jackson died… and he regrets that he was wrong when he said “OJ didn’t do it”.
So you just stop it. He’s a vulnerable metrosexual guy and he needs our validation.
38 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:01 pm
MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 12:23 pm
……….the Emily Post of Michigan speaks
39 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Is Emily Post the chef du protocol in your hovel’s kitchen, BS-boi? LOL. You really should get her to dish you up some smarts, dude.
40 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Raider1 // Nov 19, 2009 at 12:31 pm
” to believe he was qualified for POTUS would have been laughed away. But, we know why he is there…and now we have a man who has never even run a popcorn stand now in the most powerful office on earth. ”
…..obviously pining for the intellect, eloquence and judgement of GWB
41 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:06 pm
MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:03 pm
……..Emily Post….. Christian teacher……. practising lawyer in MI…..is there no end to your talents?
42 cpanza // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:17 pm
It’s too bad there’s no attempt at serious conversation and discussion in this thread. I suppose it’s time to move on to the next one and hope things are less silly there.
43 balconesfault // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:19 pm
It’s too bad there’s no attempt at serious conversation and discussion in this thread. I suppose it’s time to move on to the next one and hope things are less silly there.
Well, with such trivial subject matter, what did anyone expect?
44 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:20 pm
cpanza // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:17 pm
“It’s too bad there’s no attempt at serious conversation and discussion in this thread. I suppose it’s time to move on to the next one and hope things are less silly there.”
……..that might be because it’s not a subject worthy of serious conversation
45 cpanza // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Balcone/Otto: Actually, the subject of whether a POTUS (or anyone) should adhere to ritual practices in a foreign land, which ones to perform and which not to, and if so how to do them properly, and a discussion of how this attitude towards ritual relates to the POTUS’s attitude towards international relationships, how it sends signals about the attitude of the country as a whole, and so on, is not silly at all. It’s important, and actually pretty interesting. What’s silly in this thread is the way in which that subject has been treated in a cartoonish and un-serious manner.
If anyone is interested in the subject, by the way, Jonathan Dresner, who is actually a scholar of Japan, discusses the subject civilly here:
http://www.froginawell.net/japan/
46 Independent // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:54 pm
i get it that the democrats here would like to move on and not feature anymore discussion over the painfully poor performance of mr obama and his bow wow low kow tow thingie.
but i thought that when you bow in japan and other cultures, it was bad form and disrespectful to touch as well.
for someone like mr obama, who has a reputation of being excruciatingly careful about details and his image, i would have thought he would have been better briefed heading off to the emperor.
is really all that bad that the far Left and far Right can’t accept he messed up again and, unfortunately, he’ll probably make at least another mistake before leaving office in 2012?
47 Independent // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:57 pm
and ottovbvs, migop is right. you got p’wned.
48 balconesfault // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:57 pm
unfortunately, he’ll probably make at least another mistake before leaving office in 2012
I have no doubt that Obama will make other mistakes before leaving office. It is likely that some of them will even be of consequence.
49 txanne // Nov 19, 2009 at 2:03 pm
“What Obama did has the Japanese (and the rest of East Asia) rolling in fits of laughter,…”
Sean I would be interested to see all the laughing Asians or at least see a story about it from a Japanese newspaper. I would think you would want to share the hilarity. C’mon dont hold out on us, reveal your sources!
Interesting link cpanza, thanks!
Sadly not many will click to read an unbiased viewpoint.
50 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Independent // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:57 pm
“and ottovbvs, migop is right. you got p’wned.”
……and I’d take you seriously?
51 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 2:32 pm
cpanza // Nov 19, 2009 at 1:26 pm
“Balcone/Otto: Actually, the subject of whether a POTUS (or anyone) should adhere to ritual practices in a foreign land, which ones to perform and which not to, and if so how to do them properly, and a discussion of how this attitude towards ritual relates to the POTUS’s attitude towards international relationships, how it sends signals about the attitude of the country as a whole, and so on, is not silly at all. It’s important, and actually pretty interesting. What’s silly in this thread is the way in which that subject has been treated in a cartoonish and un-serious manner.”
……..whilst I’m the first to agree that understanding other lands and cultures is very important in our interconnected world…….in this as in most things there’s an order of priority…..at this time I’d say understanding muslim culture or perhaps the tribal system in Afghanistan ranks somewhat higher in the pecking order than Japanese greeting rituals…….not that this has anything to do with understanding foreign cultures which the right almost universally disdain……what it has do with is providing another opportunity for conservatives to give us another display of their Obama Derangement Syndrome in full flight……it’s entertainment and should be treated as such.
52 cpanza // Nov 19, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Otto:
In a larger sense, I don’t disagree about the pecking order. My point isn’t about the reasoning or motivations for raising the Japanese situation here, but rather the subject itself, which is actually quite interesting (speaking in general).
I think that, unfortunately, when the only item on the commenting (and thread writer’s) menu is this or that way of serving up constant doses of ‘outrage’ the conversation becomes tiresome. I don’t doubt that this was the same situation regarding Bush for many years at different sites (even being left-oriented, I avoided those sites). Unfortunately, the fact that the left has been infected in the past by the addiction for daily doses of outrage doesn’t make the conversation any more intelligent now that it’s directed at Obama. Ah well.
53 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 4:03 pm
52 cpanza // Nov 19, 2009 at 2:56 pm
“I think that, unfortunately, when the only item on the commenting (and thread writer’s) menu is this or that way of serving up constant doses of ‘outrage’ the conversation becomes tiresome.”
……..C’mon you’re not going to deny us a little fun at the expense of folks like the Emily Post of the Soo are you……..foreign customs and observances are interesting but you’re not expecting a serious discussion about them from Emily, Linanne and the rest of the corps de ballet are you
54 MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Independent wades into the pile we affectionately call the FrumForum trolls @ 47: “and ottovbvs, migop is right. you got p’wned”
The bigger problem that AutomaticBS & the other trolls have is that they have zero credibility on any site that is “…dedicated to the modernization and renewal of the Republican party and the conservative movement”.
The pronouncement of that goal by the blog’s creator means that far Left Democrat activists like AutomaticBS, TeaBagged, BlankHead and TxAnne are here to mostly annoy, irritate, inflame and incite. They revel in it –they feed on baiting others, endlessly nitpicking and snide cutdowns that are better suited for a 2nd grade playground than a place for serious discussion like Frum Forum.
Just because some here have tolerated their antics and actually engaged with them in the mindless and unconstructive bantering doesn’t mean they should have free pass when blathering about life in ObamaLand or bashing Bush, Rove, Cheney or Palin.
They should be stopped when they start in with the fictional claims –ie, “I voted for Reagan”; “I’m a conservative”; “I was a republican until _______”, etc– and they should be called on it.
We did that with AutomaticBS in this thread and many, many others.
We’ve done that with BlankHead and his attempt to appear as something other than a regular at HuffPo.
And their best response, on their best days, as a collective that single-mindedly mimics the Borg and issues forth standard far Left talking points is a lame, 2nd grade playground cutdown… well, you can quickly see why they’re discredited.
You can bet that when TeaBagged or BlankHead or BS-boi are over on HuffPo or the Democrat Underground and a GOPer strays into their sewer, they are quick as a revenue agent to scream “chickenhawk”, “keyboard militia”, “Nazi fascist” and the worst label they can attach to someone is “patriot” –said with an ACLU sneer that would make Bill Ayers fall in love again.
They are a sad lot and deserve our pity. I’m not sure they deserve access to the forum; but that’s a policy matter for the creator, David Frum.
It’s good enough to know that they are outclassed and p’wned more often than NancyPelosi visits the plastic surgeon.
55 ottovbvs // Nov 19, 2009 at 4:49 pm
MI-GOPer // Nov 19, 2009 at 4:35 pm
……thanks Emily for another dose of enlightenment and monomania
56 balconesfault // Nov 19, 2009 at 8:43 pm
For MI-GOPer, fealty to the Republican Party (unless there’s a candidate running to the right of the GOP, as in NY-23) should be the price of admission to any discussion.
Useful if you want to marginalize the Republican Party (for example, I’ve seen GOPer in some threads trying to throw Sinz overboard) … but a contradictory position if one really thinks that your ideology has a chance of winning in the marketplace of public opinion.
57 Hikaru // Nov 19, 2009 at 11:16 pm
MI-GOPer is just venting because he feels he has something to win on. Like someone else had said on this board, if this is the GOP platform, you guys might as well start blaming ACORN in 2012 as well.
Back on topic, there are bigger fish to fry. Overall, Obama’s trip was pretty worthless. All this bowing controversy is doing is supplying fodder for an already overhyped and angry percentage of people. Of course the only people claiming to even care about what he did are Republicans. Considering how much of a disaster (to put mildly) a foreign policy George W Bush had, I can appreciate what he’s doing.
58 MI-GOPer // Nov 20, 2009 at 8:27 am
BlankHead contends: “For MI-GOPer, fealty to the Republican Party should be the price of admission to any discussion.”
Not at all, troll. On a site that dedicated to inviting all Americans –even unpatriotic ones like you– to a free-wheeling debate of the day’s headlines… that would be the place for you and your troll’ish tribe whilst feasting on rotting ferrets under the bridge.
Here, as I’ve pointed out before to you and your oh-so dense and thick headed tribe, the site is dedicated to rebuilding the GOP and the conservative movement. That’s why we’re here… you’re here to inflame, incite, irritate and annoy –to spoil and defraud.
I would no more head over to HuffPo or the DailyKos to flame on true-fire eating Obama worshipers than I would attend a DNC convention.
But for you and your tribe, you are here for one unconstructive purpose: to thwart anyone interested in rebuilding the Party.
Loyalty to the Party or oaths aren’t the issue, BlankHead. Why you are here is the issue.
59 MI-GOPer // Nov 20, 2009 at 8:28 am
Like I said @ #54:
You can bet that when TeaBagged or BlankHead or BS-boi are over on HuffPo or the Democrat Underground and a GOPer strays into their sewer, they are quick as a revenue agent to scream “chickenhawk”, “keyboard militia”, “Nazi fascist” and the worst label they can attach to someone is “patriot” –said with an ACLU sneer that would make Bill Ayers fall in love again.
They are a sad lot and deserve our pity. I’m not sure they deserve access to the forum; but that’s a policy matter for the creator, David Frum.
It’s good enough to know that they are outclassed and p’wned more often than NancyPelosi visits the plastic surgeon.
60 Hikaru // Nov 20, 2009 at 9:15 am
Anyone, here or on HuffPo loses the argument when they are just mocking and calling others names.
I haven’t seen anything of substance from you. Just calling people unpatriotic and dumb only feeds your own ego. No one is listening MI-GOP…….
No one is listening.
61 VA Shepherd // Nov 20, 2009 at 9:35 am
To those who say this matter is trivial and unimportant, and that such bowing is customary in Japan:
Obama’s bizarre bowing first to the Saudi king and now the Japanese emperor is relevant because it reveals his unfortunate lack of leadership ability. Someone who makes a habit of apologizing and bowing to the rest of the world is not a suitable leader. Obama’s apologists can ridicule his critics as much as they like, but it doesn’t change the facts; national leaders do not lower themselves to his level, as evidenced by this compilation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U6fL7Y4BZA
As far as Japanese custom is concerned: As most people are aware, Japan has a highly formalized culture and etiquette is taken very seriously. Besides schools and martial arts dojos, it is also taught at major corporations to ensure that employees don’t make a blunder like Obama did. For one thing, you either bow or shake hands, not both, but that’s a typical amateur mistake. If you do bow, there are prescribed degrees depending on the situation. The degree to which Obama bowed would be suitable (minus handshake) for a subordinate making an abject apology to a superior, or from a subject to his sovereign.
I lived over 20 years in Asia, half of that spent in Japan. I also spent my time in the dojo, where etiquette, including bowing, is very important. Japanese TV variety shows frequently feature dressed up monkeys doing tricks. That’s largely how the Japanese view foreigners who butcher their language or otherwise attempt to navigate through their culture, and that is how Obama’s amateurish bow will be seen, but don’t expect the Japanese to tell you that – they’re much too polite.
The real question is not why Obama bowed (it’s obvious he’s an amateur), but why he committed this blunder a second time. Where are his handlers?
62 teabag // Nov 20, 2009 at 9:40 am
According to TPM , Fox News conducted a poll asking :
When the president of the United States is traveling overseas, do you think it is appropriate for him to bow to a foreign leader if that is the country’s custom or is it never appropriate for the president to bow to another leader?
After the noise made by the pundits on cable news, you would think that Americans would crucify their President once back home. Karl Rove called him “Weak” for respecting over culture. Dick Cheney came out from his undisclosed location or cave to blast the POTUS arguing that “No POTUS should bow, it shows weakness to our allies”, Bill Kristol said that “President Palin would have never bowed” (I guess that’s why about 60% of American think that Palin isn’t qualified to be president), Wolf Blitzer played the tape over and over again in the Situation even though Jack Cafferty told him that People don’t care…etc.
Here the “surprising” response from the American People, and I remind you that was a FoxNews Poll, not some “Liberal biais” poll.
Appropriate 67%, Never appropriate 26%. Even a majority of Republican respondents were okay with the bow, by a 53%-40% margin. Democrats weigh in at 84%-9%, and independents 62%-30%.
I guess that’s why FoxNews, CNN, MSNBC stopped their stupid coverage of their Bow-Gate
63 Raider1 // Nov 20, 2009 at 9:51 am
Otto…you’re reply to my laying waste to Obama;s credentials are “obviously pining for…GWB.” Is that your guys’ default response everytime you have no defense of Obama? (That he isn;t Bush?
And which identty are you today by the way? The acedemic, the oil man? Just want to know who i am speaking to.
64 Dispatches from the Republican Self-Immolation, Vol. 2 | Progressive Fix // Nov 20, 2009 at 2:44 pm
[...] bow to the Japanese emperor. Sean Linnane at Frum Forum, applying his expertise on bowing protocol, concluded that Obama “went WAY too low; it is only one step above a kow tow.” He added, “Compare [...]
65 MI-GOPer // Nov 20, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Raider1, the Troll Tribe at FrumForum is always defaulting to Bush Bashing; it’s their only play left in the playbook. They can’t defend Obama with employing the truth… that just damns him and their cause.
AutomaticBS is caught in a dilemma and it’s showing. In order to defend Obama Messiah & Master, he must lie. In order to lie, he must do it somewhere or on some venue where he hopes no one will take the time to dissect his rambling, ranting nonsense.
He’s been proven wrong so often on this site, I’d think he’d have some shame at some point.
But for that to happen, he’d have to have character. That isn’t likely for someone who is still living under a troll’s bridge, in the dark, feasting on dead ferrets.
66 MI-GOPer // Nov 20, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Hikaru at #60? Did you say something important or on topic?
Didn’t think so. Head back over to the DailyKos or HuffPo, ok? It’s more fertile ground with all that manure they spread.
67 Independent // Nov 20, 2009 at 4:38 pm
“According to TPM , Fox News conducted a poll asking : When the president of the United States is traveling overseas, do you think it is appropriate for him to bow to a foreign leader if that is the country’s custom or is it never appropriate for the president to bow to another leader?” teabag @ #62
the fox poll result you should be interested in claims:
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Fox News Poll: Approval of President Obama Hits New Low, 11-19-2009
Overall, a 57 percent majority says President Obama is providing the kind of leadership they expected, while 17 percent say he is a stronger leader than expected and 23 percent say he’s a weaker leader. When this question was asked about President George W. Bush early in his first term, 68 percent said his leadership was what they expected, 14 percent said he was a stronger leader than expected and 13 percent a weaker leader (July 2001).
Despite the drop in Obama’s approval rating, the president continues to outperform the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue. More than twice as many Americans disapprove (63 percent) as approve (26 percent) of the job Congress is doing.
Moreover, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s favorable rating is still in the doldrums, with a 28 percent minority of Americans saying they have a positive view of her and 50 percent holding a negative view. While half of Democrats (50 percent) have a favorable opinion of Pelosi, majorities of Republicans (77 percent) and independents (58 percent) view her unfavorably.
For President Obama, 54 percent of voters have a favorable opinion and 42 percent unfavorable. When he took office in January, 76 percent had a favorable view and 15 percent unfavorable.
First Lady Michelle Obama bests her husband with a 63 percent favorable rating, down from a high of 73 percent favorable in April.
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i think beating up on obama about his bowing is good politics for the republicans, bad bad bad politics for the democrats and terrific news for independents because it proves we haven’t been drinking the kool aid out of the white house trough.
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