RSS Feed MenuI watched some longer segments of Congressman Barney Frank’s Tuesday night town hall meeting in Dartmouth, MA and I never thought I would say this but Frank was (okay, deep breath now Brad) right. As I wrote the other day, the town hallers are not lunatics and nut jobs. They are concerned citizens. But then I saw Mr. Frank’s town hall and I was reminded that some are still out there nonetheless.
Now, the right wing talk radio crew and even Fox (for whom I do commentary on the business network) has done a crafty bit of editing to make it look like Mr. Frank was rude, dismissive and intellectually condescending to his constituents who “voted him in.” But if anyone saw longer clips of the meeting which included not just Frank’s answers, but also some of the questions as well as the audience’s outbursts, one may come to several conclusions regarding this meeting at least: 1) These people were probably among the few in his district who did not cast their vote for him; 2) there were indeed a few crackpots and zealots in mix; 3) Frank was absolutely correct in the way he dealt with many of the questions, and gave them the level of respect they deserved.
Here is one example being touted in anti-Frank circles as an example of his arrogance. I give it to you now with the question attached:
Constituent: “Why do you continue to support a Nazi policy [on healthcare] as Obama has expressly supported this policy? Why are you supporting it?”
Frank: “When you ask me this question I am going to revert to my ethnic heritage and answer your question with a question: ‘On what planet do you spend most of your time? You want me to answer your question, and you stand there with a picture of the President defaced to look like Hitler [woman proudly holds up said defaced picture] and compare the effort to increase healthcare to the Nazis. My answer to you as I said before is it is a tribute to the First Amendment that this kind of vile contemptible nonsense is so freely propagated. Ma’am, trying to have a conversation with you would be like trying to argue with a dining room table. I have no interest in doing it.”
Good for him. Just imagine this is a Republican congressman debating a woman holding up a picture of George Bush with a Hitler mustache denouncing the Iraq war and calling it a Nazi-like act of aggression? Comparing Bush’s liberation of Iraq with Operation Barbarossa for example is as ludicrous a moral nexus as comparing Obama’s healthcare plan to Hitler’s systematic extermination of the “untermenchen.” As a Jew, Mr. Frank had every right to put that woman who has little historical grounding in her place and I say good for him. Any such comparison, from any loon segment is insulting to the millions of true victims of Nazi atrocities and should be denounced as such.
Now, as I have made clear before I am no fan of Barney Frank. And there were times at the podium when he appeared to be condescending, even though many of the questioners in my mind deserved his indignation — such as those he rightfully observed could not see the difference between state and federal taxes. But I think the coverage of this was one-sided from talk radio and some of the cable news outlets. It made for good ratings, but it was not the whole truth. And that is not fair to Mr. Frank or the debate as a whole for that matter.
Frank at one point told a woman that she had come to the town hall with preconceived notions and nothing he said was going to change her mind about him or his policies. I think the cable news outlets also had their minds made up about how to play this story before the first question was ever asked.
ottovbvs // Aug 20, 2009 at 5:16 pm
……..It was an insult to dining room tables……mine is a lovely mahogany piece…..reeded edges……twin pedestals……boxed castors……I’m thinking of lodging a protest with the Antique Dealers Association or the UN committee on human rights for tables
barker13 // Aug 20, 2009 at 5:26 pm
“Now, the right wing talk radio crew and even Fox (for whom I do commentary on the business network) has done a crafty bit of editing to make it look like Mr. Frank was rude, dismissive and intellectually condescending to his constituents who “voted him in.””
Hmm… I’d have to see the actual examples.
Here. Let me tell you what I saw last night on O’Reilly:
O’Reilly ran the clip – the clip of that nutty chick – and I clearly heard her refer to Obama’s “Nazi” plan. At that point I said to my wife and kid who were watching O’Reilly with me, “Frank is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to blast that frigg’n nutcase.”
Period. End of my response.
What was weird though was that even though O’Reilly clearly hadn’t edited the “Nazi” reference out (since if he had I wouldn’t have caught it, obviously), he then went on to still basically chide Frank.
(*SHRUG*)
(Hey… for what it’s worth… and I’ve ALWAYS said this… O’Reilly is off his frigg’n rocker a good 20%-25% of the time. Nor is he the brightest bulb at any time. The fact that he has a Masters from the Kennedy School pretty much tells you all you need to know about grad school as it pertains to the social sciences.) (*SMIRK*)
“I think the cable news outlets also had their minds made up about how to play this story before the first question was ever asked.”
Well… true… but this is a problem prevalent within the media community; it’s not just the cable networks.
Here. Ask yourself this: What refer to Obama and the Democrat’s efforts as Health Care “Reforms?”
Why “reforms?” The word “reforms” signals a positive connotation. (*SHRUG*)
Why not say “proposed legislation” – a value neutral descriptive?
BILL
anniemargret // Aug 20, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Brad…first, kudos to you for speaking the truth. Frank was absolutely correct in castigating this mockery of millions who died in the gas chambers and ovens as the epitome of stupidity and egregiousness. But why can’t decent Americans speak out when it’s the truth, without having to resort to apologizing to their party? Why can’t Americans act like Americans instead of party hacks and partisans who will uphold the lies of their party of choice even when it hurts people…or hurts our our country at large?
Now Tom Ridge is telling all. Who’s really shocked by this? Why didn’t Tom Ridge tell all when it was all important to tell all? Better late than never of course. But ethics and morality have now been abrogated to the least of objectives. We all need to do what is morally right to do, not what is morally right for one’s chosen party, particularly if it harms.
If things are wrong, if they are truly evil, if they are to be outed as lies, then we all need to stand up and say so regardless of party affiliation. That’s what wrong now in our USA… it’s boiled down to which side ‘wins’ – even if we lose our souls in the process. In the end, we’ll all eventually pay the price. We all lose.
Anyway, thank you Brad, for having the courage to say the right thing today.
Petunia // Aug 20, 2009 at 8:16 pm
I just watched the Barney Frank video a short while ago and had exactly the same reaction. He handled folks just right; instead of being offended and chiding them, he gave them a simple choice: do you want to talk or listen? He also let people express themselves and didn’t shut them down. It worked. And his responses were right on target.
nwahs // Aug 20, 2009 at 9:20 pm
“Now, the right wing talk radio crew and even Fox (for whom I do commentary on the business network) has done a crafty bit of editing to make it look like Mr. Frank was rude, dismissive and intellectually condescending to his constituents who “voted him in.” ”
About the only person I watch on Fox anymore is Neil Cavuto. Its a breath of fresh air compared to Beck and Hannity. The misinformation and propaganda from the right is off the charts. I know their is liberal bias in the media, but the right has absolutely nothing to differentiate themselves with in that case. They have practiced “tit for tat” to a point they are a very dark caricature of the left. The antisocial attacks on anyone that dare deviate from the destroy Obama rhetoric, is reminiscent of David Lynch creation.
ottovbvs // Aug 20, 2009 at 9:21 pm
…….Frank could run rings around this bozo…….he’s one of the wittiest guys in the house……..I particularly liked his comment that Republican’s insistence on right to life only lasted until birth occurred
Observer // Aug 20, 2009 at 9:31 pm
“Why didn’t Tom Ridge tell all when it was all important to tell all?”
…fair question, and one which troubles me, too. The only answer is one that seems all too common these days: the notion of partisan service has eclipsed the notion of public service. In both parties – and I really mean in both parties – the majority of activists or eager supporters only believe in serving their party’s America or their party’s government, not the interests of Americans as a whole.
I know the past wasn’t perfect in that regard by any means, but it sure was better than what we’ve seen in the last few years, from everyone in Washington from any side.
Churl // Aug 20, 2009 at 11:07 pm
Petunia: “…he gave them a simple choice: do you want to talk or listen?”
Well, given that Barney is theoretically a representative of the folks at the meetings, one would think that Barney ought do the listening while those who elected him do the talking. He seems to have forgotten, as too many of his colleagues have forgotten, that he is a representative not a ruler. His constituents are merely trying to remind him of this.
Brad Smith // Aug 21, 2009 at 12:24 am
First, according to mulitple reports (and clearly indicated by her own full statements), the woman involved was a LaRouchie Democrat, not a Republican. That said, while parts of her statement were off the wall, she was much more polite and respectful than her Congressman – I would disagree that Frank was “in the right,” not believing that two wrongs make a right.
In the end the ultimate concern she raised was quite valid – if the government is claiming that health care reform is necessary to reduce medicare spending, as the Obama administration and its allies have said, there is some reason to fear that the government will make decisions about health care based on bureaucratic decisions about the value of various lives, and that is cause for concern, and it does lead to the fear – though like you, I don’t like or see much value in these analogies – of a policy that is, frankly, similar to that of the Nazis. Here is this woman’s full question, shown here: http://www.necn.com/Boston/NECN-Extra/2009/08/18/Rep-Frank-condemns-those/1250643022.html
“They say we need to limit medicare expenditures in order to reduce the deficit. That’s the origin of this policy. This is the T-4 policy [I have no idea what that means] of the Hitler policy in 1939, where he said certain lives are not worth living, certain people we should not spend the money to keep them alive, which is exactly what Ezekiel Emmanuel has said. [I'm not sure it is exactly what Obama advisor Emmanuel has said, but some in the administration, including the President, have come alarmingly close] So my question to you is 1) this policy is already on its way out, it already has been defeated by LaRouche, my question to you is why do you continue to support a Nazi policy, as Obama has expressly supported this policy, why are you supporting it?”
Leaving aside the “LaRouche has already defeated it” nonsense, isn’t this a fair question? Isn’t it a valid concern made by many commentators that the Obama plan calls for rationing, and that the burden of that will likely fall most heavily on certain vulnerable people – the elderly and disabled in particular? There’s an old saying, “just because you’re paranoid, it doesn’t mean you don’t have enemies.” Again, watch the tape – she isn’t shouting, she isn’t rude, she is a citizen who, whatever her overall political beliefs, has politely asked her congressman a question. And note that she has not called him “a Nazi.” In fact, her question presumes that he would not want to endorse a Nazi policy.
I am less concerned about the quirks and inflammatory analogy of the questioner than by Frank’s unwillingness to answer the question with anything but insult. Let’s take Brad’s analogy one step further – suppose his fictional Republican congressman had answered his fictional questioner, however over the top that questioner might be, by insulting her? What would the reaction have been?
As conservatives, we know that great evils are often brought about by “men of zeal, well meaning, but without understanding.” This woman asked what is ultimately a very serious question, that goes to the core of the opposition to Obama care. To focus on her imagery is to miss the bigger question – does Barney Frank have an answer?
Raider1 // Aug 21, 2009 at 8:04 am
Brad Smith. There is no point in raising a legit issue if it is going to be cloaked in inflammatory language. In Schaeffer’s previous post (did you read it?) he defends the protesters and their cause.
Personally I think Frank is so on the wrong side of this issue. But the author makes a good point in that the messenger distorted the message and Frank was right to give it back to them.
barker13 // Aug 21, 2009 at 10:07 am
Re: Anniemargret // Aug 20, 2009 at 7:25 pm (#3) –
“Now Tom Ridge is telling all.”
(*SMIRK*) (*ROLLING MY EYES*)
Hey, Annie… let me guess… you were one of the loons predicting throughout the Bush years that “any moment” Karl Rove was going to be indicted.
(*SMIRK*)
(Gonzales too – right? Com’on… admit it…)
(*CHUCKLE*)
Re: Nwahs // Aug 20, 2009 at 9:20 pm (#5) –
“About the only person I watch on Fox anymore is Neil Cavuto. Its a breath of fresh air compared to Beck and Hannity.”
You’re right about Hannity. (*SMILE*) And you’re right about Cavuto.
You’re wrong about Beck, though.
(*SHRUG*)
BILL
Bulldoglover100 // Aug 21, 2009 at 10:08 am
No Churl…it was not simply Barney Frank’s job to “listen”. They elected him to lead. They elected him to Re-Present their ideas and to find those ideas? He MUST explain what is before the House and Senate to be voted on. To allow his voters to only garner their information on the issues from places such as Fox News, which lies with wild abandon if we are being honest, then he must talk and not just listen.
As for him having to listen to some nut job who probably cannot even spell respect let alone show it to anyone, one would have to ask would you? Honestly? sit and just listen to some nut jobber disrespect the jewish people? ONLY if you were a racist I suspect.
Thank you for this article Brad. I too have huge issues with Barney Frank but credit is due him in this instance and it is very telling as to why the Republicans are in the boat they are when it is this easy to see the lies and distortions they put into play regarding this instance.
balconesfault // Aug 21, 2009 at 10:34 am
“They say we need to limit medicare expenditures in order to reduce the deficit.”
Yeah, I want to see the Republican Party marching forward into the future with the contention that this statement is equivalent to Nazism.
Good luck with that, guys.
Churl // Aug 21, 2009 at 11:46 am
Bulldog, well, if it is Barney is expected to lead, his constituents are telling him in no uncertain terms that they don’t like where he’s leading them.
Railing about Jews is a completely different matter from telling your representatives that the laws they want to impose on you are crap.
As for the rest of your remarks, Fox News, nut jobs, can’t spell … yakk yakk yakk ad infinitum et nauseum. Do you have a keyboard macro that types this stuff?
Raider1 // Aug 21, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Churl. They were not his true constiuents, those were not the majority of Frank’s voters was the point of Schaeffer’s piece. There were a lot of fringe people. Frank gets overwhelmingly re-elected election after election. HIS constuents are very very liberal and love where he is taking them. Look at the election results.
Churl // Aug 21, 2009 at 1:58 pm
raider1, if the protesters are residents of Barney’s district, they are his constituents whether they voted for him or not, or voted or didn’t. Politicians ignore disaffected minorities at their vocational peril.
I do agree, however, that Barney would be re-elected even if he was one of Herr Professor Doktor Gunter von Hagens’s plasticized corpses.
By the way, how do you distinguish “fringe people” from the other kinds of people?
Raider1 // Aug 21, 2009 at 3:30 pm
It is like the old pornography line: “I cannot define it, but I know it when I see it.” I think The American Nazi Party, The American Communist Party, the KKK, ACLU, etc. are not a bad place to find them.
This woman, it turns out, was a LaRouche (sp?) plant. I would like to know if she, in fact, does live in Frank’s district or is a plant.
The real issue at hand is addressed in what looks like a companion post to this one by Schaeffer a few days back. The overwhelming number of people at these town hall meetings are just as he says concerned citizens who are frightened at the size, the scope and the speed with which one party is tring to fundamentally alter such an enormous part of our national economy and even character.
The fringe nuts who get the air time mute their real and legitimate concerns.
balconesfault // Aug 21, 2009 at 3:52 pm
KKK/ACLU … really?
“I want to recognize the ACLU for its commitment to protecting our civil liberties. You have a long and proud history of standing up to defend the freedoms guaranteed to us by the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. (…) The ACLU seeks to prevent the ‘tyranny of the majority’ from destroying our fundamental liberties.”
Robert Mueller, JD Director, FBI
Speech to the 2003 Inaugural ACLU Membership Conference
anniemargret // Aug 21, 2009 at 6:41 pm
No, Barker I wasn’t one of the ‘loons’ that predicted Karl Rove would be indicted. On this earth, we don’t always see justice done, do we? I’m naieve in some respects that not to that degree. But Karl Rove will get his comeuppance in due time. There is a ying and a yang, and there is such a thing as karmic justice…our universe is made of it.
But I did say to my husband during those last weeks leading up to Bush’s election that the ‘terror alerts’ were political theater and nothing more. In fact, he disagreed with me, saying they ‘wouldn’t fool with something like that.” To which my response was, ‘HA!”….and something about selling him swamp land…
balconesfault // Aug 21, 2009 at 6:55 pm
To which my response was, ‘HA!”….and something about selling him swamp land…
Are you saying you trust Ridge Land more than swamp land?
anniemargret // Aug 21, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Who do I trust….? DC is a town full of liars and near-liars. You’re right. I trust swamp land.
LFC // Aug 22, 2009 at 9:17 am
Brad Smith said… In the end the ultimate concern she raised was quite valid – if the government is claiming that health care reform is necessary to reduce medicare spending, as the Obama administration and its allies have said, there is some reason to fear that the government will make decisions about health care based on bureaucratic decisions about the value of various lives, and that is cause for concern, and it does lead to the fear – though like you, I don’t like or see much value in these analogies – of a policy that is, frankly, similar to that of the Nazis.
First, why is there “some reason to fear that the government will make decisions about health care based on bureaucratic decisions about the value of various lives?” Why? How did you form this opinion? Something written in the bill? Somebody’s op-ed? Did it just pop into your head? The only place I’ve heard this charge was from Sarah Palin and, to be blunt, she’s an idiot.
Second, Britian has true government run healthcare. Government employees provide healthcare and make healthcare decisions all the time. Do you believe they have a Nazi policy? If so, do you think the citizens of Britain who depend upon that system would agree with you?
Your delivery is less inflammatory, but your accusation is just as bad as Palin’s. There is zero evidence that some determination of life value by the government is part of any bill being worked on, or is an end goal for anybody working on reform. It’s just something you pulled out of your … head.
Finally, just because you have a vague fear that something MIGHT happen EVENTUALLY is not a good reason to do nothing and let the current system fail the American people. And those decisions you’re so afraid of are currently being made by insurance companies that have a profit motive the U.S. Gov’t does not have. Yeah. That’s so much better.