RSS Feed MenuFF Exclusive: Earlier this morning, Rep. Michele Bachmann’s office released a list of members of the newly-formed Tea Party Caucus. The list included congressmen who had supported the tea party for some time, like Reps. Joe Wilson, Mike Pence and Michele Bachmann.
One problem, however: at least two members had not yet agreed to join, and several of the offices were either unaware that their congressman had joined the Tea Party caucus or were not informed that Bachman was going to release their names.
Congressman John Mica’s (FL-7) office told FrumForum that their member had not joined the Tea Party caucus. When asked if their boss had joined the caucus, Rep. John Fleming’s (LA-4) office told FrumForum: “I don’t believe that’s the case.”
Rep. Gary Miller’s (CA-42) office told FrumForum: “We actually don’t know” if the member had joined the new caucus.
Other offices said that they were taken off guard by the announcement of the caucus membership list. “It’s news to me,” said Steve Taylor, press secretary to congressman Todd Akin (MO-2), when asked whether Rep. Akin had joined the Tea Party Caucus. He also seemed unaware that Bachmann’s office would release a list of members: “I, as press secretary, was not aware of this list. The press shop… was not consulted about this press release.”
“I’m not sure if anyone was told [that Rep. Bachmann would release a list],” said Dave Yonkman, Press Secretary to Rep. Hoekstra.
Adding to the confusion was the sudden removal of the list from Rep. Bachmann’s website. FrumForum has a screenshot of the original list below. Bachmann Press Secretary Sergio Gor told FrumForum that it was taken down because changes needed to be made to the list, but that an updated list would be available later today.
Today was the inaugural meeting of the Tea Party caucus. It’s unclear if Rep. Bachmann’s office assumed that attendance was tantamount to membership, but at this time there’s some confusion in the offices below as to whether their members have actually agreed to join the caucus.
Add me on twitter: www.twitter.com/timkmak
UPDATE (2:19 PM):
The new list of Tea Party caucus members is out. Five members from the original list were removed, and three were added. Rep Roscoe Bartlett (MD-6) was removed, then added back.
The following members were removed from the original list: Reps. Gary Miller (CA-42), Gus Bilirakis (FL-9), John Mica (FL-7), Michael Burgess (TX-26), and Joe Wilson (SC-2).
The following members were added: Reps. Adrian Smith (NE-3), Dan Burton (IN-5), and Tom Graves (GA-9).
Reached for comment, Rep. John Mica spokesperson Rusty Roberts explained why Mica was originally on the list: “Mr. Mica went to the meeting, and told her that he has policy of not joining caucuses… Someone must have seen him at the meeting and assumed he was a member.”
UPDATE #2 (3:10 PM):
Rep. Joe Wilson was removed from the list, but Rep. Joe Wilson spokesperson Pepper Pennington tells FrumForum that Wilson still considers himself a member of the caucus.
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 7:15 am
Jabbermule please say exactly what is propaganda in the reasons I give.
Propaganda is usually a lie, please take the issues I raised and prove they are a lie. Please give a link to a reputable non partisan website to back up your assertion.
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 7:27 am
“Try explaining why all those independents and centrists—who are now in the process of abandoning Obama in droves—voted for him. I’ll give you a hint: they listened to HOW he said things, rather than WHAT he was saying.”
For exactly the same reasons, and they are not abandoning him. He is hovering around the 48% mark in most reputable (non Rassmussen) polls. So he has only lost about 6% points from his election numbers. 6% is not droves, you talked about propaganda!
We are coming out of a severe recession, unemployment is slow in recovering, so a 6% drop from election day is in my opinion pretty damn good considering.
How popular was Bush again. 23% at the end if I remember rightly.
jabbermule // Jul 22, 2010 at 7:39 am
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 7:27 am
“For exactly the same reasons, and they are not abandoning him.”
Are you really sure about that?
“He is hovering around the 48% mark in most reputable (non Rassmussen) polls.”
What is it about Rasmussen polling that you feel isn’t reputable?
WillyP // Jul 22, 2010 at 7:58 am
What scares me most is the fidelity these libs have towards Obama, who is clearly a massive failure.
Look, the economy sucks and is getting WORSE, not better.
Our European allies are now lecturing us on government debt. They fear a world where American has been eviscerated economically, because it means we’ll soon be eviscerated militarily.
BTW, has anyone been hearing about Iraq or Afghanistan lately? Where are the regular news reports? What has gone on since McCrystal called it quits? (And why was it again that he decided to run his mouth, to of all outlets, Rolling Stone magazine?!?!)
Something is very fishy around here. Non-sequitur provisions don’t find themselves in bills by accident. Call it whatever you like, but it seems to me that this little Democrat cabal is working overtime to remake our society into some socialist haven.
Republicans should take back both houses, repeal all bills passed by this Congress, and begin re-writing them according to market/liberty-oriented principled that made this country great. The ossification of societal progress – something that these bills all but guarantee – will not end with the economy. The Democrat party has consigned us to a poorer and weaker future.
Republicans need to stop being petrified about being viewed as uncouth; as the adults in this country, they need to stand up for the people against Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the rest of this unconstitutional coup that is fundamentally transforming the relationship of government to governed. Or else, in a matter of a generation, America will be a has-been.
jabbermule // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:02 am
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 7:15 am:
“Propaganda is usually a lie, please take the issues I raised and prove they are a lie.”
Wrong.
This is the definition of propaganda: information or publicity put out by an organization or government to spread or promote an policy, idea, doctrine, or cause. And that is exactly what you are engaging in.
“Conservatism [is] an Ideology that had led to a huge financial meltdown.”
Propaganda. The meltdown occurred as a result the endless promotion of a Socialist ideology of homeownership for all, responsibility and accountability for none. An ideology promoted by Bill Clinton, Henry Cisneros, Andrew Cuomo, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and even George Bush. An ideology that threw away the time-honored practice of qualifying borrowers based on financial accountability (you know, stuff like credit rating, responsibility with money, income, down payment so you have a little skin in the game, etc). Then those toxic mortgages got bundled up and sold all over the world as ’safe assets’ with the full faith and backing of pseudo-government organizations called Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
“Enormous increases in the deficit.”
Propoganda. There were substantial increases in the deficit during the Bush administration, but most of it occurred during the last few months of his 2nd term to pump liquidity into a failing economy (which Obama voted for) due to the meltdown (see above). The insanity we’re seeing now in deficit spending has started since Jan 2009.
“Two unpaid for wars of choice which also encompassed empire building.”
Last time I checked, Obama (the ‘anti-war’ candidate in 2008) still has us in those wars, with substantial increased funding and troops since he took office. And the term ‘empire building’ is propagandistic in the extreme.
More to follow.
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:06 am
What is it about Rasmussen polling that you feel isn’t reputable?
Because on this sort of polling they are an outlier, they have a 6% house effect to the right. That skews their polling.
Ask yourself why they alone are always out of line from the rest of the polls.
When election time comes around they tighten this house effect and come back into line with all the other polls, so they are pretty accurate if they wish to be.
See 538.com for details.
jabbermule // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:20 am
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 6:28 am:
“They voted against torture, spying on Americans, detention without trial.”
All misleading. You define waterboarding as ‘torture’…I don’t. I believe it’s a useful, non-life threatening method of extracting information from those who wish to kill American civilians. Which Americans were being spied upon? The ones who were communicating with Al-Qaida. And it continues to this day. Who was being detained? Enemy combatants who, under the terms of the Geneva Convention, don’t have the legal right to a trial under international law.
“They voted against a lax regulatory oversight and deliberate dismantling of the environmental and other agencies charged to protect the country.”
Propaganda. The main oversight was the lack of responsibility in mortgage qualifications. And please: name ONE environmental agency Bush ‘dismantled.’
“the incompetence of an administration that just did not care. Katrina, 9/11 and more gave the majority of this country an indication of how totally fucked up Conservatives are when they actually have to perform.”
This is just complete propaganda from the left, designed to convince gullible voters to pull the lever for Democrats. Sorry, this kind of hyperbole doesn’t fly with rational, intelligent (non-pot smoking) individuals.
jabbermule // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:26 am
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:06 am:
“Because on this sort of polling they are an outlier, they have a 6% house effect to the right. That skews their polling.”
Let’s assume for a moment this is true. What does Rasmussen have to gain from an approach like this? If this is a correct assertion, then their whole reason for existence could be called into question, and they would be out of business in a heartbeat.
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:27 am
Jabbermule, you reinforce my point exactly. You have not proved anything I stated to be untrue. You have given your own personal interpretation of the facts. Not good enough I am afraid. Try again with reality engaged.
jabbermule // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:36 am
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:27 am
“Jabbermule, you reinforce my point exactly. You have not proved anything I stated to be untrue. You have given your own personal interpretation of the facts.”
And you haven’t? Read your statements again, and tell me you’re not engaging in leftist propaganda.
However, it seems like you want ‘reality engaged’ in our discussion, so I’ll give you some reality. Based on some of your erroneous assertions, you clearly need some education on the mortgage meltdown which led to the worldwide financial crisis. Read the following books, then come back and have a rational discussion with me about the causes of our current recession:
Financial Fiasco by Johann Norberg (a Swedish historian)
The Housing Boom and Bust by Thomas Sowell (a Stanford economics professor)
Fairy Hardcastle // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:40 am
WillyP, I am not currently a birther, but just as a theoretical discussion, assume a President is invalidly elected, for example because he or she was not natural born, is there basis for saying that all official acts of such President are invalid? Would the health debt bill for instance be so much words on paper if the President were not validly the President?
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:42 am
“Let’s assume for a moment this is true. What does Rasmussen have to gain from an approach like this? If this is a correct assertion, then their whole reason for existence could be called into question, and they would be out of business in a heartbeat.”
It is true, I know you do not like facts and evidence so you will not go looking for confirmation. They do it so they can push a particular agenda a bit like Fox. They are the GOP’s pollster of choice. You will note there is not a similar pollster on the left as Research 200 who did the same have been called out on the left and are now not quoted. We tend to like reality.
All you need to do is wonder why Ras is so out of whack with all the rest.
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:46 am
“However, it seems like you want ‘reality engaged’ in our discussion, so I’ll give you some reality. Based on some of your erroneous assertions, you clearly need some education on the mortgage meltdown which led to the worldwide financial crisis. ”
And you need to get your head out of your ass and realize that yes the bad mortgages did do harm but the main cause was the banksters parcelling those bad mortgages then inflating the value by 40 times and selling them on.
These toxic assets on the banks books did not come purely from the defaults on bad debts. The fact that you do not mention this and blame the whole thing on Fanny and Freddie tells me a great deal about your honesty.
jabbermule // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:53 am
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:42 am
“They [Rasmussen] are the GOP’s pollster of choice.”
Again, what would they have to gain by this? If Rasmussen is projecting a distorted view of reality, how can that possibly help Republicans win public office? That would be akin to a basketball team pretending they’re ahead by 10 points when in reality the game is tied.
And, worse for Rasmussen, how can such a ‘feel good’ strategy help them retain any credibility in the political arena with such an ostensibly flawed approach to statistical analysis? Your explanation fails to persuade.
jabbermule // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:55 am
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 8:46 am:
“And you need to get your head out of your ass and realize that yes the bad mortgages did do harm but the main cause was the banksters parcelling those bad mortgages then inflating the value by 40 times and selling them on.
These toxic assets on the banks books did not come purely from the defaults on bad debts. The fact that you do not mention this and blame the whole thing on Fanny and Freddie tells me a great deal about your honesty.”
I didn’t ‘blame the whole thing on Fannie and Freddie.’ Read the books.
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 9:08 am
Jabbemule,
Quote,
“with the full faith and backing of pseudo-government organizations called Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.”
It was AIG that insured those assets not Fannie and Freddie. If you knew anything about this you would know that, but what is new?
jabbermule // Jul 22, 2010 at 9:22 am
TerryF98 // Jul 22, 2010 at 9:08 am
“It was AIG that insured those assets not Fannie and Freddie.”
Read the books.
Watusie // Jul 22, 2010 at 9:49 am
WillyP What scares me most is the fidelity these libs have towards Obama, who is clearly a massive failure. Look, the economy sucks and is getting WORSE, not better.
This is, simply put, a lie.
GDP for the last three quarters of the Bush Administration: MINUS 2.7, MINUS 5.4, MINUS 6.4.
Watusie // Jul 22, 2010 at 9:51 am
jabbermule If Rasmussen is projecting a distorted view of reality, how can that possibly help Republicans win public office? That would be akin to a basketball team pretending they’re ahead by 10 points when in reality the game is tied.
Obviously you know nothing about PR. Rasmussen publishes these fantasy polls many months before the election in order to drum of the media narrative that the Republican candidate is going to win, in hopes of making it a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Watusie // Jul 22, 2010 at 9:57 am
jabbermule You define waterboarding as ‘torture’…I don’t.
You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
The US Army field manual bans waterboarding and we used to execute people who conducted waterboarding as war criminals.
People like you disgrace our nation.
WillyP // Jul 22, 2010 at 10:19 am
Fairy,
I would imagine, in the unlikely event that we learn Obama was not a “valid” president, that the legislation would remain law because a “valid” Congress voted on them. Perhaps they’d have to be re-signed by the new Chief Executive, but… honestly I don’t know.
Watusie,
Fine, you think the economy is improving? Then let the Dems run on that assertion. Oh, they’ll try. But they’re also going to get trounced at the polls, indicating that I am right – things are getting worse, not better. Obama is a failure by common standards; a success only when success is defined at racially influenced income redistribution, economic hardship, currency debauchment, less efficient resource consumption, higher levels of waste, and rampant corruption.
You know, there’s a reason he likes those Latin American dictators. They are his models.
Fairy Hardcastle // Jul 22, 2010 at 10:25 am
Just a question here about methodology. Where do people get their facts from? Surely, we all don’t have the time to actually read CBO reports, legislation (hell our wonderful Congressmen don’t even do that), Senate reports on the financial meltdown, transcripts of hearings, etc. And I’ve encountered the problem of reading one thing say on wikipedia and then someone calling me out as telling lie. Now maybe I was reading too quickly and wikipedia is infallible. So where to people get their information from in this forum?
drdredel // Jul 22, 2010 at 10:27 am
@TerryF98
I don’t know if you’re a fan of scotch, but if you happen across Robbie Burns, it’s one of the finest. Very hard to find in the states, but they do have it in Canada, if you’re not traveling all the way across the pond.
I edited my post when I first wrote it, because it was getting too verbose, but I wish to add the thought I excised back in now.
Initially when reading these sorts of arguments (with people like Willy who seems to genuinely believe that there’s a “cabal” and our leaders trying to package us all for easy consumption by the, soon to be arriving, alien overlords from Xebooplix, or from Jabbermule who doesn’t think waterboarding is “tortue”… also he has trouble believing “it’s not butter”), I get worried that our nation is filled with not just ignoramuses, but ignoramuses that are singly incapable of rational thought. And this is a scary idea.
But then I look at the numbers (which you yourself cite) and I come to the following conclusion.
Most of the people in America are undereducated (or to be more precise, overly educated in some specialized field, but horribly undereducated in things like world history, civics, economics, science, literature, art, and anything else necessary to be what most of the world regards as “intellectual”) but generally able to consider various facts presented to them and discern what makes sense. Subsequently we don’t have a very large population of nazies, marxists, or UFO abductees. Until fairly recently those that were predisposed to such misguided ideologies had no way to lock themselves into a massive echo chamber and give each other the false impression that their brand of looniness is both widely regarded as true, and squares with reality. However the Internet has done them this exact (dis)service.
As a personal anecdote I have a friend; someone I’ve known my whole life, who is a really lovely fellow. Very “good” guy. Fairly typical American man. Not very educated. Good at what he does for a living. Honest, caring, healthy attitude towards life. Ever since the invention of Facebook and Fox news, however, he’s become a right wing propagandist who spends a lot of his time quoting Hannity and Beck on his Facebook page. When I speak to him in person, he’s still a very lovely man with whom I earnestly enjoy shooting the shit… so long as its not about politics, in which he is wildly misinformed (owing to his principal sources of information, and total lack of the ingredients for “intellectualism” which I list above).
So… I can a) be really worried that he is the “norm” today or b) examine the reality that MOST people don’t agree with him (or willy or jabber), just as MOST people don’t get into deadly car accidents or win the Nobel peace prize. But those that do, get a great deal of attention because they are provocative and curious. I am leaning heavily towards (B).
So… I again urge you to not bother arguing with those who are already so far out of touch as to believe in Zionist Cabals that seek to convert everyone into a genetically engineered zucchini. They will never be convinced AND they do not matter since they are, in fact, in the fringes (granted… very noisy and highly irritating fringes, at that).
Seriously… look at this quote:
“Something is very fishy around here. Non-sequitur provisions don’t find themselves in bills by accident. Call it whatever you like, but it seems to me that this little Democrat cabal is working overtime to remake our society into some socialist haven.”
This person is either
a) just trying to get your goat
or
b) on drugs he shouldn’t be taking
or
c) not on drugs he should be taking
There is no D. Subsequently… unless you’re his psychiatrist you have no obligation to examine his ideas any further.
Fairy Hardcastle // Jul 22, 2010 at 10:50 am
drdredel, thanks for your note about Robbie Burns. It seems you know about because you actually tried it. But where is your back-up for some of your assertions? I am not asking for you to actually document everything here, but where you got your information. You reference “looking at the numbers.” Which numbers are these exactly? I see you have a personal anecdote and surely that is good evidence as far as it goes. But what exactly does it say? Politics it seems to me is one part fact three parts rhetoric all in the service of getting your agenda and not the other guy’s agenda done. So your friend found some political soulmates who don’t agree with you? There’s is nothing new about arguing politics. In fact the best politicians (using best in the sense of effective) are masters of rhetorics not of particular disciplines or sciences.
Fairy Hardcastle // Jul 22, 2010 at 10:53 am
WillyP, your solution to the hypothetical problem of the invalid President seems right though not technically in keeping with the Constitution. It seems to me that Congress (especially if a different one was in place) would have to re-vote and re-present the bills to the new POTUS.