Comments on: Arthur Larson: Moderation And Controversy http://www.frumforum.com/arthur-larson-moderation-and-controversy Building a conservatism that can win again Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:50:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: sinz54 http://www.frumforum.com/arthur-larson-moderation-and-controversy/comment-page-1#comment-38813 sinz54 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:58:09 +0000 #comment-38813 ireign & HollywoodBill: The GOP has another major conundrum, besides the one HollywoodBill cares about-- how to balance the social conservatism of the GOP base with the need to appeal to non-Red states. There's another big problem that ireign alluded to: Balancing the demands of the "Wall Street" economic conservatives--like Larry Kudlow and much of the rest of the National Review--with the demands of the "Main Street" economic conservatives, like those on The Weekly Standard. Consider the debate over economic stimulus. Cutting capital-gains taxes, favored by Mr. Kudlow, will help Wall Street investors a lot more than it will help struggling families on Main Street. Cutting the SS payroll tax would help every working guy and gal, but it won't be of much help to wealthy investors, whose SS contributions are a tiny portion of their total income anyway. Balancing the Federal budget was quite popular among Northeasterners, even among upscale Democrats; the Concord Coalition and Paul Tsongas, a Democrat, made that their signature issue. But in recent years at least, the GOP cared more about cutting taxes than about balancing the budget. ireign & HollywoodBill: The GOP has another major conundrum, besides the one HollywoodBill cares about– how to balance the social conservatism of the GOP base with the need to appeal to non-Red states. There’s another big problem that ireign alluded to: Balancing the demands of the “Wall Street” economic conservatives–like Larry Kudlow and much of the rest of the National Review–with the demands of the “Main Street” economic conservatives, like those on The Weekly Standard. Consider the debate over economic stimulus. Cutting capital-gains taxes, favored by Mr. Kudlow, will help Wall Street investors a lot more than it will help struggling families on Main Street. Cutting the SS payroll tax would help every working guy and gal, but it won’t be of much help to wealthy investors, whose SS contributions are a tiny portion of their total income anyway. Balancing the Federal budget was quite popular among Northeasterners, even among upscale Democrats; the Concord Coalition and Paul Tsongas, a Democrat, made that their signature issue. But in recent years at least, the GOP cared more about cutting taxes than about balancing the budget.

]]> By: HollywoodBill http://www.frumforum.com/arthur-larson-moderation-and-controversy/comment-page-1#comment-39047 HollywoodBill Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:59:23 +0000 #comment-39047 However the hard right social conservative views were thrown out in PA wih the massive defeat that Santorum was handed. The electorate is deciding that the religious zealots are not going to be given positions of power. Musgrave in Colorado, and JD Hayworth in Arizona among others definitely serve notice that the socons are on a kamikaze mission in their attempts to force their theocaratic views on the county. And that means that the moosehunter and the Louisiana excorcist are never going to have enough crossover appeal to win national elections. However the hard right social conservative views were thrown out in PA wih the massive defeat that Santorum was handed. The electorate is deciding that the religious zealots are not going to be given positions of power. Musgrave in Colorado, and JD Hayworth in Arizona among others definitely serve notice that the socons are on a kamikaze mission in their attempts to force their theocaratic views on the county. And that means that the moosehunter and the Louisiana excorcist are never going to have enough crossover appeal to win national elections.

]]> By: mpolito http://www.frumforum.com/arthur-larson-moderation-and-controversy/comment-page-1#comment-53116 mpolito Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:48:39 +0000 #comment-53116 Hollywood Bill- two points. First of all, "moderate" Republicanism has, combined with a left-wing legislature, driven your state into the group. Arnold's unprincipled mish-mash has made CA a state businesses are running away from. Second, remember that PA voters replaced Rick Santorum with an openly pro-life Democrat, Bob Casey. Hollywood Bill- two points. First of all, “moderate” Republicanism has, combined with a left-wing legislature, driven your state into the group. Arnold’s unprincipled mish-mash has made CA a state businesses are running away from. Second, remember that PA voters replaced Rick Santorum with an openly pro-life Democrat, Bob Casey.

]]> By: Churl http://www.frumforum.com/arthur-larson-moderation-and-controversy/comment-page-1#comment-43978 Churl Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:43:00 +0000 #comment-43978 HollywoodBill, Well, if Republicans can't advance conservative principles on a statewide level, please tell me who can. HollywoodBill,

Well, if Republicans can’t advance conservative principles on a statewide level, please tell me who can.

]]> By: HollywoodBill http://www.frumforum.com/arthur-larson-moderation-and-controversy/comment-page-1#comment-53635 HollywoodBill Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:34:36 +0000 #comment-53635 Churl--I wasn't aware that any Republicans were required to advance any conservative principles on a statewide level. I thought it was enough for Republicans to get elected particularly in a state where Democrats have an average about a ten point advantage in voter registration. The two winners, Pete Wilson and of course Arnold ran on fiscal conservatism or what passes for it out here. Churl–I wasn’t aware that any Republicans were required to advance any conservative principles on a statewide level. I thought it was enough for Republicans to get elected particularly in a state where Democrats have an average about a ten point advantage in voter registration. The two winners, Pete Wilson and of course Arnold ran on fiscal conservatism or what passes for it out here.

]]> By: Churl http://www.frumforum.com/arthur-larson-moderation-and-controversy/comment-page-1#comment-51519 Churl Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:13:13 +0000 #comment-51519 HollywoodBill, You say that California has elected non-religious non-zealot Republicans in statewide elections since 1986 and I'll take you at your word. Now, please tell us exactly which conservative principles these middle roadie Republicans managed to advance or even maintain in the ensuing 23 years. HollywoodBill, You say that California has elected non-religious non-zealot Republicans in statewide elections since 1986 and I’ll take you at your word. Now, please tell us exactly which conservative principles these middle roadie Republicans managed to advance or even maintain in the ensuing 23 years.

]]> By: Rhampton http://www.frumforum.com/arthur-larson-moderation-and-controversy/comment-page-1#comment-47955 Rhampton Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:44:34 +0000 #comment-47955 ireign -- of course Santorum lost because of his social conservatism. 1. Sen. Arlen Specter (whom the SocCons despise) is in his fifth term precisely because he reflects the moderate Republicanism that PA Democrats respect, 2. Santorum's connection to Intelligent Design and the Discovery Institute was especially damaging after the 2005 Dover vs. Kitzmiller ruling, 3. Santorum's role in the Schiavo fiasco was just as damaging, 4. Santorum's comments on the Boston Catholic Church and homosexuality were widely disparaged by the likes of Gov. Mitt Romney and Sen. Ted Kennedy, 5. Santorum was never in contention at any point in the 2006 election despite having his book "It Takes a Family: Conservatism and the Common Good" published the previous year. I could go on with demographic statistics, but I think you get the point. ireign — of course Santorum lost because of his social conservatism. 1. Sen. Arlen Specter (whom the SocCons despise) is in his fifth term precisely because he reflects the moderate Republicanism that PA Democrats respect, 2. Santorum’s connection to Intelligent Design and the Discovery Institute was especially damaging after the 2005 Dover vs. Kitzmiller ruling, 3. Santorum’s role in the Schiavo fiasco was just as damaging, 4. Santorum’s comments on the Boston Catholic Church and homosexuality were widely disparaged by the likes of Gov. Mitt Romney and Sen. Ted Kennedy, 5. Santorum was never in contention at any point in the 2006 election despite having his book “It Takes a Family: Conservatism and the Common Good” published the previous year. I could go on with demographic statistics, but I think you get the point.

]]> By: HollywoodBill http://www.frumforum.com/arthur-larson-moderation-and-controversy/comment-page-1#comment-50810 HollywoodBill Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:52:03 +0000 #comment-50810 Man on Dog Santorum, the poster boy for the social conservative movement, was thankfully thrown out by the PA voters in the third largest Senatorial loss for an incumbent in American history. As for Calfornia's fiscal mess and the GOP's role in it, 2010 is right around the corner. But there aren't any religious zealots running for the top spots as thankfully, we don't elect them in CA, at least not in statewide races and haven't done so since1986. Man on Dog Santorum, the poster boy for the social conservative movement, was thankfully thrown out by the PA voters in the third largest Senatorial loss for an incumbent in American history. As for Calfornia’s fiscal mess and the GOP’s role in it, 2010 is right around the corner. But there aren’t any religious zealots running for the top spots as thankfully, we don’t elect them in CA, at least not in statewide races and haven’t done so since1986.

]]> By: Churl http://www.frumforum.com/arthur-larson-moderation-and-controversy/comment-page-1#comment-42173 Churl Wed, 25 Feb 2009 05:47:36 +0000 #comment-42173 HollywoodBill says "Fortunately, in CA, the GOP doesn't follow the rapturous pipe dreams of the religious zealots." And the success of California's Republicans in upholding conservative principles like fiscal responsibility is visible to a candid world as well. HollywoodBill says “Fortunately, in CA, the GOP doesn’t follow the rapturous pipe dreams of the religious zealots.”

And the success of California’s Republicans in upholding conservative principles like fiscal responsibility is visible to a candid world as well.

]]> By: ireign http://www.frumforum.com/arthur-larson-moderation-and-controversy/comment-page-1#comment-42708 ireign Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:35:26 +0000 #comment-42708 Rhampton-name a good idea? Santorum lost because he was controversial. He also ran against a good candidate who effectively neutralized his popularity with Reagan Democrats in a tough year for Republicans. Would he have benefited from being more liberal? Sure. But I don't think we can tack up his loss solely to him being too socially conservative. Rhampton-name a good idea? Santorum lost because he was controversial. He also ran against a good candidate who effectively neutralized his popularity with Reagan Democrats in a tough year for Republicans. Would he have benefited from being more liberal? Sure. But I don’t think we can tack up his loss solely to him being too socially conservative.

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