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	<title>Comments on: Another Triumph For The Club For Growth</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/another-triumph-for-the-club-for-growth</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: barker13</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/another-triumph-for-the-club-for-growth/comment-page-7#comment-38658</link>
		<dc:creator>barker13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-38658</guid>
		<description>Re: ldkrn; wrote 35 minutes ago --&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Yeah, as far as 21% will take him.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So you&#039;re making the prediction that come November, 2010, assuming Toomy is the GOP candidate vs. either Specter or an as yet unidentified Democrat, that Toomy will get no more than 21% of the vote?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well... I suppose if Toomy is the nominee... we&#039;ll see.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(How&#039;d your 401K and other investments fair over the past year or so, ldkrn? Not being nosy... just trying to gauge how your bets usually pay off.) (*WINK*)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Oh... and it&#039;s not &quot;*rolls eyes*&quot; it&#039;s (*ROLLING MY EYES*)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(*WINK*)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;BILL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: ldkrn; wrote 35 minutes ago &#8211;</p>
<p>&#8220;Yeah, as far as 21% will take him.&#8221;</p>
<p>So you&#8217;re making the prediction that come November, 2010, assuming Toomy is the GOP candidate vs. either Specter or an as yet unidentified Democrat, that Toomy will get no more than 21% of the vote?</p>
<p>Well&#8230; I suppose if Toomy is the nominee&#8230; we&#8217;ll see.</p>
<p>(How&#8217;d your 401K and other investments fair over the past year or so, ldkrn? Not being nosy&#8230; just trying to gauge how your bets usually pay off.) (*WINK*)</p>
<p>Oh&#8230; and it&#8217;s not &#8220;*rolls eyes*&#8221; it&#8217;s (*ROLLING MY EYES*)</p>
<p>(*WINK*)</p>
<p>BILL</p>
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		<title>By: R</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/another-triumph-for-the-club-for-growth/comment-page-7#comment-47239</link>
		<dc:creator>R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-47239</guid>
		<description>Yes I&#039;m HAPPY!  I&#039;ll be even happier when John McCain is no longer pretending he is a Conservative.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It will remove from the Senate one more Republican who doesnt represent me. This removes a gigantic obstacle to party unity, morale, and thus turnout and votes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Washington Post-ABC News Poll: 35% of Americans consider themselves Conservatives, while only 23% consider themselves liberal.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Even though many Conservatives stayed home, McCain still got close to 60,000,000 votes. Conservatism is not going away anytime soon. We have to stop letting the Liberals and the media define us.  And David Frum should stop trying to drag the Republicans to the center.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I&#8217;m HAPPY!  I&#8217;ll be even happier when John McCain is no longer pretending he is a Conservative.</p>
<p>It will remove from the Senate one more Republican who doesnt represent me. This removes a gigantic obstacle to party unity, morale, and thus turnout and votes.</p>
<p>Washington Post-ABC News Poll: 35% of Americans consider themselves Conservatives, while only 23% consider themselves liberal.</p>
<p>Even though many Conservatives stayed home, McCain still got close to 60,000,000 votes. Conservatism is not going away anytime soon. We have to stop letting the Liberals and the media define us.  And David Frum should stop trying to drag the Republicans to the center.</p>
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		<title>By: barker13</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/another-triumph-for-the-club-for-growth/comment-page-7#comment-52115</link>
		<dc:creator>barker13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-52115</guid>
		<description>Re: Sqrrrl; 11:50 AM --&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;...all the amendments that have been added to the constitution since it was first drafted.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Umm... Sqrrrl... all the amendments that have been added are... er... AMENDMENTS that have been ADDED.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(*SMILE*)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(And if you don&#039;t get it... well... another black mark against the American educational system.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(*CHUCKLE*) &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;But the fact that had the foresight to define a process to amend the constitution demonstrates they understood that society changes and that the constitution wasn&#039;t perfect then nor would it always be in the future.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Which... er... is again WHY we have an amendment process and why when someone wants to change the Constitution (adding to it... subtracting from it...) the only true Constitutional tools available are the amendment process itself or a full blown Constitutional Convention.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(*SHRUG*)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;We&#039;ve had &#039;judicial activism&#039; since 1803...&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;At least! Still... doesn&#039;t make it right. AND... even if you think it is right... doesn&#039;t mean Congress doesn&#039;t ultimately retain the authority to simply override judicial review... assuming they had the balls, the numbers, and the support of the Executive Branch.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We&#039;re going a bit far afield into Constitutional theory here, but for what it&#039;s worth, I believe that it were just explained to the American People how fundamentally undemocratic this whole concept of &quot;judicial review&quot; is when misused that they&#039;d &quot;get&quot; it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Anyway... broad theory aside... what was your point again? What specifically were you disagreeing with me on...???&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Don&#039;t get me wrong, there are occasional court decisions I think are way off base and not grounded in any reasonable interpretation of the law or constitution...&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Then here we meet on common ground.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(*WINK*) (*HANDSHAKE*)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;BILL&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;P.S. - Frankly, I&#039;d like to see a Constitutional Amendment defining the High Court&#039;s role and power with regard to judicial review and specifically the power to overturn (judicially veto) democratically passed legislation.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Perhaps... and this is just off the top of my head... something along the lines of:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In order to declare a law or action unconstitutional, seven of the nine Supreme Court Justices would have to act in concert - a supermajority.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Congress - by two-thirds majority - would have the power to override the Court&#039;s decision acting within 30 days of the Court&#039;s decision.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Anyway... just thinking aloud. (*SMILE*) Any thoughts on the broad concept? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Sqrrrl; 11:50 AM &#8211;</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;all the amendments that have been added to the constitution since it was first drafted.&#8221;</p>
<p>Umm&#8230; Sqrrrl&#8230; all the amendments that have been added are&#8230; er&#8230; AMENDMENTS that have been ADDED.</p>
<p>(*SMILE*)</p>
<p>(And if you don&#8217;t get it&#8230; well&#8230; another black mark against the American educational system.)</p>
<p>(*CHUCKLE*) </p>
<p>&#8220;But the fact that had the foresight to define a process to amend the constitution demonstrates they understood that society changes and that the constitution wasn&#8217;t perfect then nor would it always be in the future.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which&#8230; er&#8230; is again WHY we have an amendment process and why when someone wants to change the Constitution (adding to it&#8230; subtracting from it&#8230;) the only true Constitutional tools available are the amendment process itself or a full blown Constitutional Convention.</p>
<p>(*SHRUG*)</p>
<p>&#8220;We&#8217;ve had &#8216;judicial activism&#8217; since 1803&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>At least! Still&#8230; doesn&#8217;t make it right. AND&#8230; even if you think it is right&#8230; doesn&#8217;t mean Congress doesn&#8217;t ultimately retain the authority to simply override judicial review&#8230; assuming they had the balls, the numbers, and the support of the Executive Branch.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re going a bit far afield into Constitutional theory here, but for what it&#8217;s worth, I believe that it were just explained to the American People how fundamentally undemocratic this whole concept of &#8220;judicial review&#8221; is when misused that they&#8217;d &#8220;get&#8221; it.</p>
<p>Anyway&#8230; broad theory aside&#8230; what was your point again? What specifically were you disagreeing with me on&#8230;???</p>
<p>&#8220;Don&#8217;t get me wrong, there are occasional court decisions I think are way off base and not grounded in any reasonable interpretation of the law or constitution&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Then here we meet on common ground.</p>
<p>(*WINK*) (*HANDSHAKE*)</p>
<p>BILL</p>
<p>P.S. &#8211; Frankly, I&#8217;d like to see a Constitutional Amendment defining the High Court&#8217;s role and power with regard to judicial review and specifically the power to overturn (judicially veto) democratically passed legislation.</p>
<p>Perhaps&#8230; and this is just off the top of my head&#8230; something along the lines of:</p>
<p>In order to declare a law or action unconstitutional, seven of the nine Supreme Court Justices would have to act in concert &#8211; a supermajority.</p>
<p>Congress &#8211; by two-thirds majority &#8211; would have the power to override the Court&#8217;s decision acting within 30 days of the Court&#8217;s decision.</p>
<p>Anyway&#8230; just thinking aloud. (*SMILE*) Any thoughts on the broad concept?</p>
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		<title>By: Gil-Galad</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/another-triumph-for-the-club-for-growth/comment-page-7#comment-49936</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil-Galad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-49936</guid>
		<description>Frum, you hack, it was Bush with you at his side that ruined the GOP, and inflicted serious damage on the economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frum, you hack, it was Bush with you at his side that ruined the GOP, and inflicted serious damage on the economy.</p>
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		<title>By: ldkrn</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/another-triumph-for-the-club-for-growth/comment-page-7#comment-41409</link>
		<dc:creator>ldkrn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-41409</guid>
		<description>&quot;If Toomey runs as a Tea Party Republican, he&#039;ll go far.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yeah, as far as 21% will take him.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*rolls eyes*&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If what I&#039;m reading here is representative of conservative thought as a collective, you guys are going to be in the woods for a long, long time...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If Toomey runs as a Tea Party Republican, he&#8217;ll go far.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, as far as 21% will take him.</p>
<p>*rolls eyes*</p>
<p>If what I&#8217;m reading here is representative of conservative thought as a collective, you guys are going to be in the woods for a long, long time&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ldkrn</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/another-triumph-for-the-club-for-growth/comment-page-7#comment-46048</link>
		<dc:creator>ldkrn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-46048</guid>
		<description>&quot;I submit it is better for conservatives to have 60% sway within a majority party than to have 100% control of a minority party.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sorry, David. For conservatives, all that means is that 60% of the party will be intolerant bullies, working for ideological purity, and there goes the neighborhood again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I submit it is better for conservatives to have 60% sway within a majority party than to have 100% control of a minority party.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry, David. For conservatives, all that means is that 60% of the party will be intolerant bullies, working for ideological purity, and there goes the neighborhood again.</p>
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		<title>By: ldkrn</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/another-triumph-for-the-club-for-growth/comment-page-7#comment-53218</link>
		<dc:creator>ldkrn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-53218</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why do moderates tacitly assume that liberals are the kind and compassionate ones, and conservatives are uncaring, uncompassionate, evildoers?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well, because history mostly bears that out. Ask immigrants, gay people, working women, anti-war activists-basically anyone who isn&#039;t a white, Christian conservative-how kind and compassionate conservatives have been to them over the years, and there&#039;s your answer. &lt;br&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why do moderates tacitly assume that liberals are the kind and compassionate ones, and conservatives are uncaring, uncompassionate, evildoers?&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, because history mostly bears that out. Ask immigrants, gay people, working women, anti-war activists-basically anyone who isn&#8217;t a white, Christian conservative-how kind and compassionate conservatives have been to them over the years, and there&#8217;s your answer. </p>
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		<title>By: illwilly</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/another-triumph-for-the-club-for-growth/comment-page-7#comment-44628</link>
		<dc:creator>illwilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-44628</guid>
		<description>You are insane Sally</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are insane Sally</p>
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		<title>By: Sally Morem</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/another-triumph-for-the-club-for-growth/comment-page-7#comment-52312</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally Morem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-52312</guid>
		<description>Why are moderates so concerned with gay marriage and gay rights.  As soon as the liberals take full control, they won&#039;t give _____ for gays.  Why do I say such a thing?  Because liberals like to control everything, and I do mean everything.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Once they gain control, you can kiss your sexual freedom goodbye.  They&#039;ll come after you based on their deep concern for public health.  You gays, you swingers, you bed hoppers--you&#039;ll be painted as a threat, spreading your diseases throughout the population.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just as they&#039;ve cracked down on smoking, and are now beginning to crack down on food, so they will crack down on your evil ways.  Make no mistake.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Once property rights are killed and political rights are killed, so will &quot;privacy&quot; rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are moderates so concerned with gay marriage and gay rights.  As soon as the liberals take full control, they won&#8217;t give _____ for gays.  Why do I say such a thing?  Because liberals like to control everything, and I do mean everything.</p>
<p>Once they gain control, you can kiss your sexual freedom goodbye.  They&#8217;ll come after you based on their deep concern for public health.  You gays, you swingers, you bed hoppers&#8211;you&#8217;ll be painted as a threat, spreading your diseases throughout the population.</p>
<p>Just as they&#8217;ve cracked down on smoking, and are now beginning to crack down on food, so they will crack down on your evil ways.  Make no mistake.</p>
<p>Once property rights are killed and political rights are killed, so will &#8220;privacy&#8221; rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Sally Morem</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/another-triumph-for-the-club-for-growth/comment-page-7#comment-49775</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally Morem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-49775</guid>
		<description>Why the asymmetry?  Why is it so important for Republicans to cross the aisle in mute admiration for statism?  Why is it also perfectly understandable for Pelosi to crack down on the conservative and moderate Dems in the House who may be tempted to cross the aisle to help Republicans.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Why do moderates tacitly assume that liberals are the kind and compassionate ones, and conservatives are uncaring, uncompassionate, evildoers?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Again, why the asymmetry?  Any truth tellers out there willing to rat out the moderates?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why the asymmetry?  Why is it so important for Republicans to cross the aisle in mute admiration for statism?  Why is it also perfectly understandable for Pelosi to crack down on the conservative and moderate Dems in the House who may be tempted to cross the aisle to help Republicans.</p>
<p>Why do moderates tacitly assume that liberals are the kind and compassionate ones, and conservatives are uncaring, uncompassionate, evildoers?</p>
<p>Again, why the asymmetry?  Any truth tellers out there willing to rat out the moderates?</p>
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