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	<title>Comments on: An Early Dose of Obamacare</title>
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	<link>http://www.frumforum.com/an-early-dose-of-obamacare</link>
	<description>Building a conservatism that can win again</description>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/an-early-dose-of-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-70065</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14428#comment-70065</guid>
		<description>balconesfault:  &lt;blockquote&gt; single payer does not mean the same as government controlling health care.  &lt;/blockquote&gt;
The Federal Government would have legal monopsony power to set price and supply.  If that&#039;s not &quot;control,&quot; I don&#039;t know what is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>balconesfault:   single payer does not mean the same as government controlling health care.<br />
The Federal Government would have legal monopsony power to set price and supply.  If that&#8217;s not &#8220;control,&#8221; I don&#8217;t know what is.</p>
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		<title>By: balconesfault</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/an-early-dose-of-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-69966</link>
		<dc:creator>balconesfault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14428#comment-69966</guid>
		<description>sinz:  &lt;b&gt;Well, from Barney Frank, Jan Schakowsky, Michael Moore, all your heroes–who in talking with their own fans and supporters TOLD THEM that a public option is a stealthy way to get to single-payer. &lt;/b&gt;

And Republicans who believe that private insurers cannot manage overhead costs as well as the federal government all agree with them.

That said - single payer does not mean the same as government controlling health care.  That would be more a NHS type model, where government does not provide money to privately owned firms and hospitals and practices to supply health care, but rather takes over ownership of everything having to do with healthcare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sinz:  Well, from Barney Frank, Jan Schakowsky, Michael Moore, all your heroes–who in talking with their own fans and supporters TOLD THEM that a public option is a stealthy way to get to single-payer. </p>
<p>And Republicans who believe that private insurers cannot manage overhead costs as well as the federal government all agree with them.</p>
<p>That said &#8211; single payer does not mean the same as government controlling health care.  That would be more a NHS type model, where government does not provide money to privately owned firms and hospitals and practices to supply health care, but rather takes over ownership of everything having to do with healthcare.</p>
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		<title>By: LFC</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/an-early-dose-of-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-69962</link>
		<dc:creator>LFC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14428#comment-69962</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Barry the Magicman did take over the Cheney-Bush strategy on Afghanistan only to be now caught with his pants down around his ankles because it wasn’t his team’s plan…&lt;/i&gt;

The man has been President for only 9 months.  How, exactly, did he ignore Afghanistan for 7 years while the Taliban regrouped and reorganized (a.k.a. the Cheney-Bush &quot;strateegerry&quot;) in just 9 months?  Is time different in your world than mine?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry the Magicman did take over the Cheney-Bush strategy on Afghanistan only to be now caught with his pants down around his ankles because it wasn’t his team’s plan…</p>
<p>The man has been President for only 9 months.  How, exactly, did he ignore Afghanistan for 7 years while the Taliban regrouped and reorganized (a.k.a. the Cheney-Bush &#8220;strateegerry&#8221;) in just 9 months?  Is time different in your world than mine?</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/an-early-dose-of-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-69958</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14428#comment-69958</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s how we&#039;ve been doing rationing long before Obama was elected:

Back in 1990, I had a bleeding peptic ulcer.  My physician prescribed Prilosec, which is generic and OTC now but in 1990 it was brand new--and very expensive.  

I asked him why he prescribed this particular drug.  He replied, &quot;Prilosec is the newest and most potent anti-ulcer drug we have.  It will stop your pain, and heal your ulcer in 4 to 6 weeks.&quot;

I said, &quot;That&#039;s wonderful.  But it&#039;s so expensive.  What about people who don&#039;t have health insurance?&quot;

He replied, &quot;Oh, we don&#039;t prescribe it for THEM.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s how we&#8217;ve been doing rationing long before Obama was elected:</p>
<p>Back in 1990, I had a bleeding peptic ulcer.  My physician prescribed Prilosec, which is generic and OTC now but in 1990 it was brand new&#8211;and very expensive.  </p>
<p>I asked him why he prescribed this particular drug.  He replied, &#8220;Prilosec is the newest and most potent anti-ulcer drug we have.  It will stop your pain, and heal your ulcer in 4 to 6 weeks.&#8221;</p>
<p>I said, &#8220;That&#8217;s wonderful.  But it&#8217;s so expensive.  What about people who don&#8217;t have health insurance?&#8221;</p>
<p>He replied, &#8220;Oh, we don&#8217;t prescribe it for THEM.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/an-early-dose-of-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-69956</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14428#comment-69956</guid>
		<description>BoolaBoola:  &lt;blockquote&gt; 

“…how things will be when government is in charge of health care.”

Fortunately, no one has any intention of putting government in charge of health care. Where did you get such a silly idea? &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Well, from Barney Frank, Jan Schakowsky, Michael Moore, all your heroes--who in talking with their own fans and supporters TOLD THEM that a public option is a stealthy way to get to single-payer.   They&#039;re all on YouTube.  Thanks to YouTube, you can&#039;t keep secrets like that from the general public anymore.

The dirty little secret that even they aren&#039;t telling their fans is that the economics of health care ensures that demand will always outrun supply by a wide margin.  And hence health care MUST be rationed by any society.  And that right now, we ration by ability to pay.  And those who are affluent like it that way. Those who are disadvantaged do not.  So as a society, we have to decide whether to choose a different means of rationing.

All politicians of both parties, including Obama, are telling the public that they can have all the health care they demand without it costing very much.  That&#039;s a lie.  We&#039;re not going to be able to give all Americans all the care they want.  We may not be able to give every patient in a hospital his own private room, for example.  It&#039;s a hospital, not a motel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BoolaBoola:   </p>
<p>“…how things will be when government is in charge of health care.”</p>
<p>Fortunately, no one has any intention of putting government in charge of health care. Where did you get such a silly idea?<br />
Well, from Barney Frank, Jan Schakowsky, Michael Moore, all your heroes&#8211;who in talking with their own fans and supporters TOLD THEM that a public option is a stealthy way to get to single-payer.   They&#8217;re all on YouTube.  Thanks to YouTube, you can&#8217;t keep secrets like that from the general public anymore.</p>
<p>The dirty little secret that even they aren&#8217;t telling their fans is that the economics of health care ensures that demand will always outrun supply by a wide margin.  And hence health care MUST be rationed by any society.  And that right now, we ration by ability to pay.  And those who are affluent like it that way. Those who are disadvantaged do not.  So as a society, we have to decide whether to choose a different means of rationing.</p>
<p>All politicians of both parties, including Obama, are telling the public that they can have all the health care they demand without it costing very much.  That&#8217;s a lie.  We&#8217;re not going to be able to give all Americans all the care they want.  We may not be able to give every patient in a hospital his own private room, for example.  It&#8217;s a hospital, not a motel.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/an-early-dose-of-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-69955</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14428#comment-69955</guid>
		<description>When you have an unexpected major antigenic shift in the flu genome, it&#039;s very difficult to do the necessary R &amp; D, safety testing, and production in time to head off a pandemic.

In 1968, I caught the infamous Hong Kong H3N2 flu.  HK H3N2 was an unexpected major antigenic shift, just like H1N1 is now.  And that year, no vaccine arrived in time for that bug.  34,000 Americans died, including Allen Dulles.  I was sick for weeks.  But I don&#039;t recall Republicans blaming LBJ for that.  Nixon never made it a campaign issue.  Back then, we had politicians in both parties who were actually reality-based.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you have an unexpected major antigenic shift in the flu genome, it&#8217;s very difficult to do the necessary R &amp; D, safety testing, and production in time to head off a pandemic.</p>
<p>In 1968, I caught the infamous Hong Kong H3N2 flu.  HK H3N2 was an unexpected major antigenic shift, just like H1N1 is now.  And that year, no vaccine arrived in time for that bug.  34,000 Americans died, including Allen Dulles.  I was sick for weeks.  But I don&#8217;t recall Republicans blaming LBJ for that.  Nixon never made it a campaign issue.  Back then, we had politicians in both parties who were actually reality-based.</p>
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		<title>By: sinz54</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/an-early-dose-of-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-69952</link>
		<dc:creator>sinz54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14428#comment-69952</guid>
		<description>ottovbs:  &lt;blockquote&gt; sounds like a great case for govt labs taking over the production of this essential medication &lt;/blockquote&gt;
I used to work at a government lab.

The idea that these folks would know how to operate a mass production line is absurd.  Their entire culture is geared toward the R &amp; D leading toward the production of a few proof-of-concept prototypes.  They wouldn&#039;t know how to manage a mass production line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ottovbs:   sounds like a great case for govt labs taking over the production of this essential medication<br />
I used to work at a government lab.</p>
<p>The idea that these folks would know how to operate a mass production line is absurd.  Their entire culture is geared toward the R &amp; D leading toward the production of a few proof-of-concept prototypes.  They wouldn&#8217;t know how to manage a mass production line.</p>
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		<title>By: BoolaBoola</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/an-early-dose-of-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-69933</link>
		<dc:creator>BoolaBoola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newmajority.com/?p=14428#comment-69933</guid>
		<description>&quot;...how things will be when government is in charge of health care.&quot;

Fortunately, no one has any intention of putting government in charge of health care.  Where did you get such a silly idea?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;how things will be when government is in charge of health care.&#8221;</p>
<p>Fortunately, no one has any intention of putting government in charge of health care.  Where did you get such a silly idea?</p>
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		<title>By: txanne</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/an-early-dose-of-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-69932</link>
		<dc:creator>txanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 06:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Meanwhile in the land of &quot;NO&quot;.  The Republicans are holding up the vote for Surgeon General for no good reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile in the land of &#8220;NO&#8221;.  The Republicans are holding up the vote for Surgeon General for no good reason.</p>
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		<title>By: writtenwithoutwax</title>
		<link>http://www.frumforum.com/an-early-dose-of-obamacare/comment-page-1#comment-69927</link>
		<dc:creator>writtenwithoutwax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 04:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A great, detailed article from Right Wing Nuthouse may help this convo.  http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/10/26/why-the-shortage-of-swine-flu-vaccine/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great, detailed article from Right Wing Nuthouse may help this convo.  <a href="http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/10/26/why-the-shortage-of-swine-flu-vaccine/" rel="nofollow">http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/10/26/why-the-shortage-of-swine-flu-vaccine/</a></p>
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