Comments on: America’s Silence Empowers the Mullahs

By: sinz54

sinz54 — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:40:08 +0000

balconesfault: We support specific dissidents, Iran predictably cracks down on anyone with the hint of American affiliation, neocons raise the charge that if we don’t swoop in to support them, we’ve abandoned them, and this sets a bad precedent for anyone who would look to America in the future.
Not necessarily.

Both President Carter (Democrat) and Reagan (conservative Republican) supported Soviet dissidents like Sakharov, and supported the Solidarity movement in Poland–but without taking direct military action.

President Obama can do the same–but he didn’t. He had an opportunity to show solidarity with the Iranian dissidents who want liberalization–but he hasn’t.

Obama’s envoy, Scott Gration, even suggested we should make nice with the Janjaweed genocidists of Darfur. Even some of Obama’s liberal supporters protested that one.

A policy of engagement does not require abandonment of America’s traditional support for human rights. Hopefully Obama will figure that out before too long.

By: Moderate

Moderate — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:36:13 +0000

Michael Ledeen and the neoconservatives have always wanted war with Iran. This is one of the few things that makes me okay with the Obama presidency: at least our Commander in Chief isn’t listening to these crackpots.

Does anyone here think Ledeen gives a crap about civil or political rights?

A) This is a man who once said “Every 10 years or so we need to beat up a small nation to show we mean business.”

B) I don’t see him writing about the declining human rights situation in Belarus or anyone nation with a worse Freedom House score than Iran.

“But Iran is different because of nuclear weapons.” That’s going to happen even if the revolutionaries should take power. They want nukes too. Nukes are popular with everyone in Iran.

Nothing will make me support Obama for re-election faster than if the Republican candidate agitates for war with Iran. I’d rather have my taxes raised and economy weakened than start another war.

By: jakester

jakester — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:31:43 +0000

Fine Reason,
not war, but at least use every diplomatic and press outlet we can to let the world know about them and give the dissidents heart. Are you seriously expecting Saudi Arabia or Germany to lead?

By: jakester

jakester — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 07:30:05 +0000

I am for war only as a last resort. But we should go out of our way to support all dissidents there and make sure any maltreatment the Iranian gov’t metes out to them will be trumpeted around the world as a crime against humanity. But I don’t expect too much from Obama who thinks that he can talk turkey with these mullahs/

By: Reason60

Reason60 — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:53:10 +0000

I am still waiting to hear why resolving Iran’s internal affairs are our responsibility or obligation.
Not the EU?
Not the Arab league?
Why have we so comfortably accepted our role as global policeman, settler of all accounts, social worker to the world?

We do have an interest in a stable middle east; and we do have a national interest in securing peace, and avoiding a nuclear showdown.

But doesn’t the EU have a much greater interest? The Iranian weapons can’t reach us, but they can reach Europe. why are we allowing them to be on the sidelines, while we act the kingmaker?

We have nearly bankrupted ourselves in the past 8 years of war; and yet we continue to seek out more?

By: mbilinsky

mbilinsky — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 01:31:31 +0000

Well, I’ve seen contrasting material from Frum. The “Axis of Evil” was perhaps the most cartoonish and embarrassing (not to mention damaging) talking point ever to cross a President of the United States’ lips. However, Frum transcends that dimness and simplicity in a lot of other areas and actually seems to have substantive ideas in certain areas of policy. He certainly seems more serious and thoughtful about solving the nation’s problems than the majority of Republicans or “conservatives-in-name-only” that I encounter (and that’s why I visit this site). Unfortunate that he reverts to bad habits when analyzing the appropriate ways for America to conduct its foreign policy.

By: teabag

teabag — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:26:56 +0000

“Ok, that sounds like a brilliant strategy.”

Don’t expect nuance or deep thought from the Neocon nutters. Frum and chums are not the brightest students in the class. They have no grasp of history or any sort of learning in the ways of “other” peoples, you know they of a brown skin.

They do not understand the law of unintended consequences. Frum has had his panties in a knot ever since his “Axis of evil” speech met with wide derision. Never got over it. seems this is a continuing thing here. Disparage the Presidents speeches, read into and criticize what is not there. Condemn and stigmatize what they read there even if it is not so. Play up the Bush years and rewrite history even if a five year old could point out the stupidity of the ploy. Ramp up the Iran axis as the next war on whatever.

Dumb and dumber.

By: mbilinsky

mbilinsky — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:21:34 +0000

So we have a nation with an ingrained suspicion and resentment of outside influences. We have a repressive regime that hysterically trumpets itself as the protector of the people against potential imperialist intruders. We have Ahmadinejad get up every day and say “These protesters aren’t citizens who hate me. They are the tool of the Americans and the Israelis! It is the Americans who are behind all of this!”

And instead of outsmarting the repressive regime and letting them continue to trip over their own feet while providing measured support for the movement, you suggest playing right into their hands with vocal support which basically makes Admadinejad and the Mullahs look like they are telling the truth.

Ok, that sounds like a brilliant strategy.

By: mlindroo

mlindroo — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:54:42 +0000

> “The instruments of repression are too powerful.”
> How do you think Iran’s security services compare to the KGB? Or the Stasi?
> Yet revolution succeeded right under their noses.

> “Anything done to support the dissidents will only make things worse.”
> We heard this a lot during the Cold War, and it was proven false.

Ledeen is comparing apples and oranges here. Poland, East Germany and Romania (even Russia) obviously have a lot in common with the Western NATO nations, whereas Iran and the Arab nations seem fundamentally different.

These countries have actually received MORE exposure to Western popular culture, capitalism, secularism etc. since millions of Egyptians, Moroccans, Tunisians etc. work or study in the West. People living on the other side of the Iron Curtain liked what they saw and generally have turned to capitalism and democracy since the end of the Cold War. Why is it that so little of it seems to “rub off” on the Muslim Middle East?? The only logical explanation seems to be fierce national pride and religious fundamentalism, which means the numerous current problems of the Arab world matter surprisingly little.

MARCU$

By: mlloyd

mlloyd — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:28:58 +0000

Iranians are indeed perfectly capable of having a revolution. In fact, they had one just a few decades back, when they overthrew the Shah the US had installed. Iran != Poland. He better do a whole lot better job justifying the argument that Iranian reformers want US intervention– and it better be a whole lot more reliable than his trumpeting of the unpopular Iranian agent Chalabi in the run-up to the Iraq invasion. No Iraqis actually living in Iraq wanted to be invaded by the US– any more than Tea Partiers hope for the Chinese to liberate them– and there is no evidence here that any Iranians actually living in Iran look to the US for legitimacy and support.

Just as Donald Rumsfeld failed to understand Iraq despite his Reagan-era role in arming Saddam Hussein, Ledeen fails to understand Iran despite his Reagan-era role in arming the mullahs.

It is emotionally satisfying to fantasize that angry speeches from US politicians can magically move mountains, as in the writings of Michael Ledeen and the 1990s movie The American President, but the actual world is a great deal more complicated than that.