Comments on: After Ny-20, No Excuses For The Gop

By: ktward

ktward — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:45:14 +0000

Barker 13:

"The fact that Specter, Collins, and Snowe weren't expelled from the Party (as I would have liked to have seen) puts paid to such hyperbole."

Your own admission ("as I would have liked to have seen") supports Sinz's point. This website, sad but true, is a teensy voice in an otherwise cacophonously self-destructive Party.

You don't REALLY want to get into the internal culturally-driven Republican drama surrounding McCain's nomination, do you?

Brutus1776:

My genuine apologies if I appeared arrogant- bad day. Though, your 'Precious movement' comment seemed, on its face, overly melodramatic rhetoric to me. 'Gathering Storm' kind of stuff. You're of course free to message wherever you like, and hopefully you do indeed expand your blogging et al horizons beyond NM; one should frequently tread outside their own comfort zone.

I will admit that I'm center-left, but I consider a well-informed opinion to be born from learning all sides of an issue. I engage on this website because the rest on the Right are absurdly myopic. I always appreciated (not to be confused with 'agreed with') Frum's intellectual prowess in his NRO days, so I followed him here.

I strongly believe our democracy works best with (at least) two viable parties. Right now, those two parties are Left Dems and Centrist Dems.

Is that okay with you guys? If not, you'd better get it together already. Dems won't do it for you.

By: barker13

barker13 — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:56:30 +0000

Re: Sinz54; 4/28/2009 10:48 AM --

"The GOP no longer wants a "big tent." They want a tiny phonebooth, as long as that phonebooth is occupied by hard-core true believers."

Nonsense. This website is proof of that. The fact that Specter, Collins, and Snowe weren't expelled from the Party (as I would have liked to have seen) puts paid to such hyperbole.

Jeez, Sinz... perhaps you've forgotten, but JOHN MCCAIN was the 2008 Republican presidential nomineee!

(*SNORT*)

Let me ask you (though you're not much on actually ANSWERING direct questions), in your mind, to your way of thinking, is there such a thing as "too big" of a tent?

Are there any lines that can't be crossed... and recrossed... time and again?

Let's say you had a Republican Member of Congress who voted with the Democrats 51% of the time... would he or she also be welcome in "the big tent" as designed by... er... you?

"[Conservatives] really think that the public will honor them for sticking to their principles. They just don't understand that the public believes that their principles are wrong."

Again. NONSENSE.

If that was true Gingrich and the class of '94 would never have taken over Congress in the "Republican Revolution" and even after Gingrich was long gone the GOP was able to retain its hold on Congress through 2006.

And speaking of 2006... again... s l o w l y... it was the fact that RINOs had strayed from our conservative principles - having been corrupted by power - that caused their downfall.

In 2008 very few people were voting for liberalism per se. They were voting for "hope," for "change." They were voting against Bush. They were voting against McCain as "Bush Light."

BILL

By: Brutus1776

Brutus1776 — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:57:57 +0000

ktward: I can’t help but wonder if you have anything better to do than to insult people and their ideas on a board dedicated to Conservatism? Can I do the same to you on the AmericanProgressive message boards? Obviously I would need to write essays around your ill-advised “solid 6-8 years” comment, but this topic has been touched upon in other sections. And was that a hint of superciliousness I detect! That’ll do.

By: ktward

ktward — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:06:39 +0000

Brutus1776 wrote:

"We have given our precious movement a mere 100 days since the President began, to rise like a phoenix. And now we are crying because we didn't win a NY not even half a year after the election of President Obama."

Your 'precious movement' has had a solid 6-8 years to demonstrate it's efficacy.

Failed. Miserably.

Your strategically mysterious migration even further Right, most recently demonstrated today by Specter's party switch, suggests you're really getting comfy in the Wilderness.

Good luck, Modern Conservatism. Unfortunately, you're still battling the archaic Republican party, nevermind the Dems.

By: Brutus1776

Brutus1776 — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:52:02 +0000

Sinz54: To answer the former of your two posts regarding my own: they would try to defeat him because they disagree with him and his views as they have trailed further left. Let us not forget, we owe the good segments of Republican rule (Reagan’s and then 1994) to a firm articulation of Conservative fundamentals. Not by being more ‘moderate.’ What is it that upsets people most these days? President Bush. People are blaming President Bush for a lot, right or wrong. It is safe to say that President Bush ended up being far from a traditional Conservative. Perhaps Conservatives need to better explain that we are not an ideological fringe or wing. Libertarians are (no offense) the furthest wing. Conservatives are the anti-ideological. Some people felt it necessary to marginalize the Gottfrieds, M.E. Bradfords and Claes Ryns from the movement, erstwhile they have a very moderate Conservative message.Your second point: might I borrow one of barker13’s many body language quotes *SHRUG* He picked them, no not necessarily so. The Chief of Staff most likely hires and fires. Please spare me a lecture on how office politics work in an area I am very closely associated with. Who’s complaining??? I said we shouldn’t act like he was a martyr for principle. Hell, if they get the 60, then let Sen.s Snowe and Collins follow him on out the door

By: sinz54

sinz54 — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:51:10 +0000

Brutus1776: Anyone on Specter's staff is just as much of a moderate Republican as he is. He picked them.

They won't desert him for switching parties. Heck, they may switch parties too, if they haven't already.

The GOP base wanted to kick Specter out of the GOP. Go to RedState.com and see for yourself. What are they complaining about now. Their wish came true.

By: sinz54

sinz54 — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:48:25 +0000

Brutus1776: The question is, Why would the GOP base try to defeat an incumbent Republican whom even the Dems conceded would be a shoo-in in the general election in November?

Answer: Because he's a "RINO," and not conservative enough for them. So instead, they've thrown their support to Pat Toomey, who is so far to the right that he has no chance whatsoever in the general election, against Specter or against any other Dem.

The GOP no longer wants a "big tent." They want a tiny phonebooth, as long as that phonebooth is occupied by hard-core true believers. They really think that the public will honor them for sticking to their principles. They just don't understand that the public believes that their principles are wrong.

By: Brutus1776

Brutus1776 — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:43:07 +0000

barker13: You raise a really interesting point (especially for someone who know what working on the staff is like). What WILL the members of his staff do? Especially in this “economic climate?” Who will walk away principled? Who says “screw it man I got a job…”

By: barker13

barker13 — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:25:37 +0000

So, Sinz... great job cutting and pasting... what're your thoughts?

"My change in party affiliation does not mean that I will be a party-line voter any more for the Democrats that I have been for the Republicans."

You buying it?

Hey... I'm COUNTING on it. Recall, I'm the guy who wanted to expel Specter from the GOP.

(*SHRUG*)

Re: Brutus1776; wrote 9 minutes ago --

It is indeed amusing what a tin ear some folks have with regard to irony.

Regarding Specter's character... I basically agree with you. Bottom line, Specter is for Specter. Normal? Understandable? Human nature? Sure. But let's not try to make it anything other than what it is.

Question... with the PA Dem establishment lie down for Specter as the NY Dem establishment did for HRC when she and Bill decided Hillary should become a Senator?

Another interesting question is how many of Specter's staff will follow him and how many will resign.

(*SHRUG*)

Bottom line... it's now out in the open - what I've always said - that Specter is a Democrat. As such, I hope and pray that he actually does exhibit the integrity and bravery many credit him with in terms of bucking his "new" Party and moving it to the Right. (Relatively!)

BILL

By: barker13

barker13 — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:14:24 +0000

Wow... nothing from Frum on Specter yet.

(*SHRUG*)

BILL