RSS Feed MenuThe slap at Israel was bad – the failure to condemn the Hamas government in Gaza even worse – but the real evil in Cameron’s speech in Ankara was the way in which it fed Prime Minister Erdogan’s delusions of grandeur.
“Turkey is a great NATO ally and Turkey shares our determination to fight terrorism in all its forms, whether from al-Qaeda or from the PKK.”
“Which European country could have the greatest possible chance of persuading Iran to change its course on nuclear policy? Tabii ki Türkiye.”
“No other country has the same potential to build understanding between Israel and the Arab world.”
“But as, hopefully, we move in the coming weeks to direct talks between Israel and the Palestinians so it’s Turkey that can make the case for peace and Turkey that can help to press the parties to come together, and point the way to a just and viable solution.”
None of these statements are true.
Turkey is not determined to fight terrorism in all its forms, not when it is sending flotillas to support Hamas. Germany and Russia are European countries with much more important trade and strategic relationships with Iran. Egypt has much greater potential to build bridges with Israel than Turkey, a country still mistrusted by many in the Arab world it once ruled. Turkey cannot help press Israel and the Palestinians together, because Turkey has forfeited almost all its credibility with Israel by its recent behavior.
Diplomatic speeches are not delivered upon oath, and sometimes improved behavior can be elicited by flattering lies. In this case, though, flattering lies seem much more likely to create feelings of impunity – and invite yet more provocative behavior.
msmilack // Jul 27, 2010 at 6:07 pm
David,
I have a question that maybe sounds naive but I really mean it: isn’t Turkey’s geographical location important to us strategically? And are we not better off with Turkey as our ally than our enemy? I personally think that keeping Turkey as an ally is essential to the survival of Israel.
Moderate // Jul 27, 2010 at 7:59 pm
Next up: why presidential candidate Obama is evil for his flattering lies while addressing citizens of “the great state of New Jersey.”
Carney // Jul 27, 2010 at 7:59 pm
As usual on foreign policy and especially on Mideast issues, Frum is spot on. Cameron’s speech is appalling. I know that in the election campaign he publicly went back on his previously given word to hold a referendum on dragging the UK deeper into the EU, signaling his current weakness on that issue, but was there any indication that he’d be this much of a disaster on Turkey? This goes way beyond pro forma support.
msmilack, the problem is that Turkey’s recent behavior has been abominable. The proper response is for them to feel a sharp sting, and to worry about losing us. If they don’t care about that, then all the groveling in the world will accomplish nothing but to make them despise us as weaklings to be bullied, while they continue on the anti-Western course they had chosen anyway. If they do care, then a sharp response with pain will bring them up short. We can only hope that sane elements in Turkey, in particular the military, will save that country from the abyss.
By the way, that last is one of the many many reasons Turkey can never be allowed into the EU. Its military must be allowed to loom threateningly over the civilian government, lest the latter drift too far into Islamism. In fact, the terrible decision to be coy with Turkey over EU admission, and then to finally crumble and actively encourage it when they called the bluff, probably encouraged the drift, because the military has been deterred from intervening to stop the madman currently at the helm, in deference to European norms that are inappropriate in this instance. Tell them calmly and clearly that they will not be admitted, let them grieve or sulk, and they’ll eventually get over it. The decades-long tease, holding up false hope, is a terrible policy, postponing disaster that will become only bigger when it finally arrives.
Gaza is an "Open Air Prison", Ghetto", "Refugee Camp" // Jul 27, 2010 at 9:06 pm
[...] overboard for his Turkish hosts it seems. And him saying it doesn't refte Anything in this string. A Worse Mistake in Cameron A Worse Mistake in Cameron’s “Prison Camp” Speech July 27th, 2010 DAVID FRUM [...]
msmilack // Jul 27, 2010 at 9:33 pm
Carney,
I understand what you are saying but don’t you think it’s possible that playing the hard guy doesn’t always get the best long-term results? I’d prefer that Turkey respect us than fear us. Looking at the biggest picture possible — separate from the recent flotilla event — I believe Turkey is an essential ally both because of their location and because of their part-Islamic population: the more Islamic people on our side the better.
I tried to understand the feelings on both sides of the flotilla incident; if it had been up to me, I would have encouraged Israel to offer a sincere apology for the tragic loss of lives along with their explanation for why they felt they had to do it. My reason is that such an acknowledgment of the feelings of the families who lost loved ones is essential to creating a necessary conversation that takes place between allies instead of enemies.
TerryF98 // Jul 27, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Ok, so the Neocons hate the President because of Israel, they hate Turkey because of Israel, they now hate the UK because of Israel. Who is next in line to hate? Maybe one day they could discover that everyone else was right and they were wrong. or not!
canuckistani // Jul 28, 2010 at 9:23 am
I think debate on whether an uppity Israel is in anybody’s interest is pertinent.
It is a dead rock state, ageing rapidly and overflowing with lazy eastern eurotrash that is sending Israel into the abyss. What was once a vibrant struggle-induced oasis, is now another bastion of old warriors seeking relevance. The emergence of the hardline religious right there means there is no difference between the warring factions, just different holidays.
The complete silence from the GOP on Israel shows the neocon hegemony is ending and their wandering eyes are turning back to oil-politics, where they should be.
The sooner Israel leaves the front burners of people’s minds, the better. There is no benefit to anyone on this planet – including Israelis – for continued intransigence on border politics beyond 1967.
CO Independent // Jul 28, 2010 at 10:37 am
This is the same David Cameron that Frum put on a pedestal, asserting that American conservatives could learn much from the moderate conservatism of the new Conservative Party of the UK.
This is what you get, Frum, when you allow principles to be diluted for the sake of electoral success. The new Conservative Party isn’t conservative at all. It is a left-wing party, just slightly less to the left than Labor. And as the comments on this blog demonstrate, lefties have no interest in or attachment to Israel.
Oskar // Jul 28, 2010 at 10:41 am
TerryF98, even if they discover it they will not admit it. When have they ever admitted one of their mistakes?
Brad Brzezinski // Jul 28, 2010 at 11:41 am
canuckistani: As long as the Al Aqsa mosque is run by the Waqf and Israeli police keep Jews out, the “hardline religious right” are not a worry. The hardline left in Canada worries me more.
Stefano // Jul 28, 2010 at 12:08 pm
David, you seem to be forgetting about the Israeli fake-passport incident from a few months back. I think that people both in the government and the electorate are still upset that an “ally” stole British passports for the purpose of carrying out an assassination.
msmilack // Jul 28, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Hasn’t the same thing happened in Israel that is happening in Turkey which is that the fundamentalists have taken the power?
Brad Brzezinski // Jul 28, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Stefano: Why was there no uproar over the Russian spies who used fake British passports? The only explanation is that Israel is a convenient whipping boy.
mickster99 // Jul 28, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Ugh. More rightwing agitprop. The other guy (Cameron) says something we don’t agree with ergo he said something evil. Not just simply saying that from our point of view it’s wrong. But no. Evil. So would rightwingers claim it satanically evil? The need to cleanly partition the world into good and evil. black/white us/them is, from my perspective, pretty useless and stupid and harmful. More of the Beck/Palin/Levine/Bachman/Falwell we’re good they’re evil. So wearisome is the right but so predictable.
Vincent // Jul 28, 2010 at 4:27 pm
I personally think Cameron has not said anything wrong. After all Turkey is and will remain the most progressive muslim country for the foreseeable future.
I generally respect David’s opinion even when disagreeing with him. Nevertheless I find him very biased toward Israel. Since I started reading this forum a couple of motnhs ago never and I say never have I seen him criticizing Israel.
I’d be happy to be proven wrong but In the meantime despite his progressive and realistic views on many issues I find David as Biased when it comes to Israel as Rush Limbaugh and others are when it comes to Obama.
Saying that Turkey is helping Hamas by bringing emergency supplies is wrong. That is putting Turkey in the same bag as Iran and Syria which it obviously is not the case…
msmilack // Jul 28, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Co Independent
Perhaps I do not fit your concept of a leftie but certainly other commenters have accused me of such which I mention only because I very much care about the survival of Israel as does everyone I know who votes Democratic so I don’t think you want to really generalize like that; Israel is a far more complex issue than simply right or left.
Stefano // Jul 28, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Brad: I am not familiar with the Russian passport scandal. Could you provide a link so I can read up on it?
mj // Jul 28, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Stefano, might want to check out this essay:
Spies, Passports, and The Guardian
Double standards.
http://weeklystandard.com/blogs/spies-passports-and-ithe-guardiani
abk1985 // Jul 28, 2010 at 8:16 pm
I like David and I like his style. However, he will not criticize Israel. The reason is that if you criticize Israel, then the criticism stands as an indictment until Israel does something about what you are criticizing them for. But Israel is not going to do anything, because they have a deadlock. WRT the settlements, I believe that most Israelis and including most of the governing elite would like to do something about it. But they cannot, otherwise the rightwing will turn against them, and perhaps even leave Israel. Israel will never do anything about the settlements: the settlers are extremists and are perfectly willing to take up arms against the IDF. To avoid civil war, the Israeli elites pretend there is no problem.
No Neocon will ever demand, via criticism, that Israel do something it simply cannot do. Halting the settlers and even rolling back the settlements is something Israel will NEVER do. If you demand that Israel do something, and they cannot do it, then you are, in effect, de-legitimizing Israel. If you de-legitimize Israel, then you are arguing against a core interest of the Jewish people, i.e., having their own national home. If you argue against a core interest of the Jewish people, then you are opposing Jewish interests, and are therefore anti-Semitic. This is how anyone who criticizes Israel for anything becomes, after a couple of logical leaps, an Anti-Semite.
I have no idea how Israel will shake out. I do know that, not being a Neocon, I don’t have to have wish fulfillment fantasies about “just one more war” that will make the Arabs and the Palestinians thankful for having Israel in their midst. And, because I am not a Neocon, I don’t have to have the cognitive dissonance of being silent about/defending a political regime under which I would not under any circumstances want to live or want my children to grow or live. Unfortunately, that’s David’s problem.
msmilack // Jul 28, 2010 at 11:18 pm
abk1985
what if Israel said what you say — made it plain and factual that these are the real reasons? what would happen?