Matthew Continetti’s long cover story for the Weekly Standard about Gov. Sarah Palin mostly covers familiar ground. The governor’s own quoted remarks also mostly reprise things she has said elsewhere. Still, the story contains two revealing and thought-provoking statements by the outbound Alaskan.
Continetti quotes this further explanation by Palin of her decision to resign:
For Palin to remain shuttling between Juneau, Anchorage, and Wasilla would waste both her and her constituents’ time. “I cannot waste time. I cannot waste resources.”
Palin did not have to commute between the three cities. That was her choice, and if she regrets it, she has the alternative of settling in Juneau full-time to do her job. Palin’s successor Sean Parnell is a resident of Anchorage. If he decides he wants to spend time at home, he too will have to shuttle. Is the suggestion that the shuttling is not too big a waste of time for him? Perhaps for some reason a different standard applies…
Here’s an even more remarkable quote:
“I can’t fight for what’s right when I’m shackled to the governor’s seat.”
Why not? Isn’t a governor’s seat actually one of the very best places in America from which to fight for what is right? It’s a place of responsibility and decision, unlike even the best-paid rostrum on the rubber-chicken circuit.
Palin’s preference for the latter over the former tells us something about what she really seeks in her future: more glamour, less work; more money, less criticism. Well, who can blame her for making that choice? But understanding the choice better will not lead anyone to admire it more.
68 responses so far
1 ottovbvs // Jul 12, 2009 at 4:11 pm
David: Continetti works for Kristol at a venue that is more heavily invested in Palin than some of those Florida retirees were in Bernie Madoff. In fact Palin bears more than a passing resemblance to a Ponzi scheme. When most of what is left of your credibility capital (not much is left of the family legacy most of it having been expended on other dubious investments in places like Iraq) has been plunked down on Palin what option do you have but to keep maintain the pretence that the Palin Fund is real and bring excellent returns in the future. The fact the company offices are being boarded up and lines of other unhappy investors are standing around the front entrance can’t be allowed to get in the way. Naturally you also make sure that your minions like Continetti and Barnes maintain the pretense.
2 VA Shepherd // Jul 12, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Sarah Palin struck a heartbeat with mainstream Americans and in the process became a cultural phenomenon. Liberals and the East Coast Establishment who don’t share her pro-life and pro-America, anti-apology viewpoint had their trees seriously shaken by the size of the crowds she drew. Under these circumstances the proliferation of articles belittling Palin isn’t surprising; it’s to be expected her opponents will take pot-shots at her at every opportunity, and it’s really just testament to her mass appeal.
Obama’s charm is wearing off, 2012/2016 is a long way off, and Palin is young. As a private citizen she will have freedom of action, and from the looks of things we can expect more of it. Besides being hockey mom and an accomplished hunter, she is a practitioner of the martial arts: http://seanlinnane.blogspot.com/2009/07/her-kung-fu-is-very-good.html
3 barker13 // Jul 12, 2009 at 6:01 pm
What’s your… er… Continetti’s point here, David?
As to “revealing and thought-provoking statements by the outbound Alaskan,” why must you always make simply HONESTY sound like some dirty trick played against you and rest of the “Inside The Beltway” (mentality) crowd?
(Hmm… probably because honesty IS to folks like you akin to sunlight to a vampire.) (*SMIRK*)
ANYWAY… is THIS http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/708gpxia.asp?pg=1 what you were referring to, David? (I notice you didn’t provide a link.)
Hmm… let’s read the whole article in context, shall we…???
“The fierce reaction surprised Palin.”
Hmm… did Continetti get this directly from Palin or indeed ANY named sourse? I mean… Continetti’s supposedly acting as a “reporter” here, right…???
“Others said the motivation for her resignation was not clear.”
Ahh… those unnamed “others.” Those anonymous “others.”
(*ROLLING MY EYES*)
“Palin says she even heard a rumor that she resigned because pornographic pictures of her were about to hit the Internet. This left her bemused. “Between which pregnancies did I get to pose for those?” she said sarcastically.”
See, David… THAT’S called REPORTING. (Would you like me to diagram “why” and “how so” for you?)
“In 2006, Palin became the first woman governor in Alaska history (as well as the youngest). In 2008, she became the first woman to appear on a GOP presidential ballot. And on July 3, she probably became the first governor with a 54-percent approval rating to resign from office for reasons having nothing to do with scandal or appointment to another job.”
See, David… these two are FACTS. That’s the job of a reporter, the report the FACTS.
“Palin says she had been thinking about her decision for a while…”
Again, David, this is called REPORTING.
“In January, during her state of the state address to the Alaska legislature, she asked lawmakers to put the previous year’s election behind them. “I asked them not to allow those distractions that were on the periphery to hamper the state’s progress,” Palin told me. But her plea went unheeded. “It became obvious in the last months especially that too many people weren’t going to ignore those things on the periphery,” she said. As the months passed, Palin arrived at the conclusion that she didn’t want a second term as Alaska’s governor. She had achieved what she had set out to do, so why bother with one more lame-duck legislative session in 2010? “I know that we’ve accomplished more in our two years in office than most governors could hope to accomplish in two terms,” Palin said. “And that’s because I hired the right people.” For Palin to remain shuttling between Juneau, Anchorage, and Wasilla would waste both her and her constituents’ time. And “I cannot waste time,” she said. “I cannot waste resources.”"
Sounds REASONABLE to me. Sounds laudable to me, in fact!
*** HMM… ANY REASON YOU DIDN’T LEAD WITH THE FOLLOWING, DAVID…??? ***
“Why is Palin leaving? At this writing, there is no reason to doubt her stated position…”
(*SMIRK*) Oh, David… you’re a piece of… er… work; yeah, that’s it… you’re a piece of work, David Frum.
“Since she returned to Alaska in November 2008, she has been hemmed in. Ethics complaints, insults, invective, undue attention, and legal bills have been all-consuming. “I can’t fight for what’s right when I’m shackled to the governor’s seat,” Palin said. For the last seven months the governor’s office has been a ward. A trap. She is breaking free.”
Hmm… Continetti’s reporting… yet somehow… er… “overlooked” by Mr. Frum.
(*SNORT*)
“Last year, in the space of eight weeks, the media said Palin was a Buchananite (she wasn’t), a member of the Alaska Independence Party (nope), a book-banner (wrong again), and a biblical literalist who believed dinosaurs roamed the Earth several thousand years ago (an utter fabrication). When it wasn’t mangling facts, the press did its best to undermine Palin’s accomplishments, from selling Governor Murkowski’s jet to finally pulling the plug on the Bridge to Nowhere to pushing through a natural gas pipeline with bipartisan support. The denizens of leftwing fever swamps accused Palin of infidelity and questioned her most recent pregnancy. Feminist activists denied Palin her womanhood because she did not share their politics. Comedians made fun of her accent, clothes, smarts, and good looks. And in a craven attempt to preserve their ties to the media, the campaign operatives who had promoted Palin to John McCain later turned on her, telling reporters (on background, of course) that Palin was an incompetent “rogue” “diva” who may have been suffering from postpartum depression.”
Continetti’s reporting… (*SHRUG*)
“Palin-hatred is visceral and unrelenting. “Our state was inundated with opposition researchers trying to dig up dirt, the Democratic blogosphere up here making stuff up,” Palin told me. The file on my desktop labeled “Insult List” is an attempt to track every foul thing that’s been said about Sarah Palin since she rose to national prominence. At the moment, the list is seven single-spaced pages long. Palin’s been called, among other things, a “bimbo,” a “cancer,” a “farce,” a “jack in the box,” a “provincial,” a “maniac,” an “airhead,” “Lady Gaga,” and “political slime.” And that’s just a small taste of the G-rated stuff. The blue material is far worse. Unable or unwilling to grasp her true accomplishments and character, the media shoehorned Palin into a ready-made caricature of the know-nothing Christian PTA mom who enters politics because of “those damned lib’ruls.” The reality is far different. Palin is a savvy and charismatic politician whose career has been filled with courageous stands against entrenched authority. Ideological or partisan attachments do not concern her. She has her flaws–who doesn’t?–but they should be measured against her strengths. Instead the media ignored the positives and colluded with Palin’s adversaries to reduce her to a cartoon. The attacks did not stop when McCain and Palin lost the election. To the contrary: They shifted location and emphasis. Palin returned to a changed Alaska. Her first year in office had been remarkably successful because she governed with an ad hoc legislative coalition of Democrats and antiestablishment Republicans. That coalition broke down the moment Palin became a force in national politics and the most famous woman (probably the most famous person) in the Republican party. The Democrats in the legislature defected en masse. Compounding the problem: Because she had unseated it, the GOP establishment never liked Palin and wanted her to go away.”
Again, folks… Continetti’s reporting; apparently though not the reporting our Mr. Frum would like your attention brought to. (*SMIRK*)
Anyway, unlike David Frum, I’ve provided the link to Continetti’s actual reporting. I suggest interested parties follow the link and get the true story direct from Cintinetti, not… er… “parsed” by that magnificent piece of… er… work… David Frum.
BILL
4 mymy // Jul 12, 2009 at 6:28 pm
What is the obsession with Gov.Palin.?I think people here have gotten the point.DAVID FRUM DOES NOT LIKE GOV.PALIN.Next you’ll write about how you heard she has cuties
5 VA Shepherd // Jul 12, 2009 at 6:32 pm
BILL:
Yikes! You might have a couple of points to make, but please keep your comment shorter than the original post! This is called EDITING.
6 ottovbvs // Jul 12, 2009 at 6:43 pm
VA Shepherd // Jul 12, 2009 at 4:43 pm
“Sarah Palin struck a heartbeat with mainstream Americans and in the process became a cultural phenomenon.”
…….Actually the note she has struck has been with 75% of the 25%……she has indeed joined Michael Jackson and Paris Hilton as a cultural phenomenom and most Democrats sincerely hope she remains front and center as THE face of the Republican party…….Happy!
7 ottovbvs // Jul 12, 2009 at 6:46 pm
barker13 // Jul 12, 2009 at 6:01 pm
……A very typical Palin supporter adds his voice of support.
8 ottovbvs // Jul 12, 2009 at 6:56 pm
VA Shepherd // Jul 12, 2009 at 4:43 pm
“Besides being hockey mom and an accomplished hunter, she is a practitioner of the martial arts:”
…………..All essential qualifications for being president……far more important than intellect, reasoning powers, good judgement and empathy with all those foreign scum…..After all Putin is a black belt in Karate……what better way to settle disputes over arms reduction with Russia than a few rounds on the mat
9 ottovbvs // Jul 12, 2009 at 7:00 pm
David, pardon the levity but do you ever go up to your “mentor” at one of those Republican martini-fests and say something like “Eh Bill…. have you lost your marbles?”
10 MFarmer // Jul 12, 2009 at 7:16 pm
This continous nitpicking of Palin’s statements out of context is beginning to put her critics in a bad light. It appears petty and mean-spirited. Plus, it’s pointless to keep harping on her shortcomings. No other politician is under such scrutiny, and Biden, as an example, certainly deserves it. Biden is actually in the position of vice president, Palin just ran for it.
11 ottovbvs // Jul 12, 2009 at 7:23 pm
MFarmer // Jul 12, 2009 at 7:16 pm
” No other politician is under such scrutiny”
………Of course Palin has NEVER sought such scrutiny…………And Biden isn’t totally clueless and, an important qualification for a politician, has the ability to construct a sentence that makes sense.
12 sinz54 // Jul 12, 2009 at 8:02 pm
ottovbs sez: “the note she has struck has been with 75% of the 25%”
Polls show that some 75% of self-identified Republicans say they would support her for President. If that held up, that would be more than enough to get Palin the GOP nomination in 2012–if she really wanted it and campaigned for it.
13 VA Shepherd // Jul 12, 2009 at 8:58 pm
“Besides being hockey mom and an accomplished hunter, she is a practitioner of the martial arts: http://seanlinnane.blogspot.com/2009/07/her-kung-fu-is-very-good.html”
ottovbvs said: “…………..All essential qualifications for being president…..”
You realized of course that I was being facetious, just as you were when you said “Biden isn’t totally clueless and, an important qualification for a politician, has the ability to construct a sentence that makes sense.” That’s a good one!
14 MFarmer // Jul 12, 2009 at 9:43 pm
ottobvs,
It’s an interesting assumption that Palin sought the scrutiny she’s received. I suppose now the spin is that she’s a masochist.
15 MFarmer // Jul 12, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Plus, I’ve heard and read many sentences constructed by Palin which make perfect sense. The hyperbole doesn’t help your case. Objectively, Palin is open to valid criticism as much as anyone, and this most people can agree with, but the petty trashing is…well, petty trashing.
16 ottovbvs // Jul 12, 2009 at 10:21 pm
MFarmer // Jul 12, 2009 at 9:43 pm
“It’s an interesting assumption that Palin sought the scrutiny she’s received”
………..Not an assumption…..a fact……if you become an candidate for vp by definition you are exposing yourself to intense scrutiny……when you then behave in an irrational fashion…….seek multiple interviews…..act like a character in Desperate Housewives……the scrutiny intensifies……facts……although you’re obviously impervious to them.
“The hyperbole doesn’t help your case. ”
………Any hyperbole from me couldn’t do justice to the wonderful things Palin does with the English language……..after all it’s made her a national joke
17 ottovbvs // Jul 12, 2009 at 10:25 pm
VA Shepherd // Jul 12, 2009 at 8:58 pm
“You realized of course that I was being facetious”
……Yes that was very obvious from critical tenor of your comments on Palin and your obvious enthusiasm for the president……not to worry I think we know where you’re coming from.
18 Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 2:02 am
I am curious to see how long people like Continetti, Kristol and Victor David Hanson will keep talking about Palin having to bone up on the issues. I mean, it has been eight month and Palin has not hit the books yet. So how long are her supporters going to give her the benefit of the doubt?
19 BA McCormick // Jul 13, 2009 at 3:10 am
I don’t see why Palin can’t be a leader on the Right without running for President? I truly don’t think shes cut out to be President (or VP) but she can be a symbol of Right wing femininity. She should write a book on the joy of being a mother, wife, and Conservative leader. She should take on the task of creating a new “feminist” doctrine that features motherhood, beauty, and female spirituality. She should become the symbol of Conservative womanhood in the tough times this country and civilization will be facing in the struggle ahead. Her narrative should be that of the frontier women; who is beautiful and loving but who will also shoot it out with the savages as America circles its wagons in the future battles against the forces of Marxist-Liberalism. Sarah Palin is indeed a real person and she should pursue real leadership in our civilization’s struggle and rebirth.
20 MFarmer // Jul 13, 2009 at 8:09 am
“if you become an candidate for vp by definition you are exposing yourself to intense scrutiny”
Unless you are a Democrat named Joe Biden. If Palin had said half the stupid crap Biden has said, and had half the political baggage, the left would have gone so ballistic the poor lady may not be all in one piece. You can spin it, but the treatment of Palin has been excessively savage. I’m just being objective, not defending a Republican — I’m not a Republican. But, I do believe in calling it like I see it, and this has been an interesting case of media bias.
21 barker13 // Jul 13, 2009 at 8:48 am
Re: Mymy // Jul 12, 2009 at 6:28 pm –
“…cuties…”
(*LAUGHING SO HARD IT HURTS*)
(*THUMBS UP*)
Re: VA Shepherd // Jul 12, 2009 at 6:32 pm –
Hey… Frum pays me by the word! I’m trying to make a living here…
(Oh, shit…! I think I just let the cat out of the bag…)
(*SMILE*)
Re: MFarmer // Jul 12, 2009 at 7:16 pm –
“…out of context…”
Yep. THAT’S the rub.
I’ll never get the Frum types. My integrity, my sense of honor – of right and wrong – is a key part of my self-identity. Folks may not always appreciate my style or want to hear what I have to say, but I don’t get criticized for twisting others words or for trying to escape my own past comments. Frum and people like him seem to relish “cheating” and trying to get away with it. Getting caught doesn’t dissuade them. Being called on the carpet for it doesn’t seem to embarrass them. I’ll just never get it.
* Hey… VA… just as a salute to you I’ll stop here – happy…??? (*GRIN*)
BILL
22 sdspringy // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:01 am
Pathetic David, you lose credibility when you’re writing appears to reflect the thoughts of the Lederman Show.
Maybe we should compare the current VP to Palin. Any thoughts on how ridiculous Biden has been? Or just to obsessed with the Palin poster inside you locker?
23 barker13 // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:07 am
Re: MFarmer // Jul 12, 2009 at 7:16 pm –
“This continous nitpicking of Palin’s statements out of context…”
DAVID. I hope to heck you’re reading these comments. For your own sake… stop being a weasel.
What’a'ya think… none of your former colleagues and family are lurking, taking all this in, sadly shaking their head’s in forced agreement with the critiques of your CHARACTER that are being thrown out here…?
DAVID. It’s not too late for you to change. I mean… you’re a professional writer… you have an Ivy League education, a fine resume, and grew up with all the advantages. Surely you realize you don’t NEED to pull the stunts you do. Surely you understand that you’re simply demeaning yourself by acting this way.
DAVID. Listen to us. We’re trying to help you.
Re: Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 2:02 am –
“I mean, it has been eight month and Palin has not hit the books yet.”
And you’re basing this on… er… what?
Care to provide context, Admiral? (*SMILE*)
I mean… which televised debates have you seen starring Palin over the past eight months that I’ve missed? Which multiple choice subject knowledge tests has Palin taken that YOU apparently are privy to the results of yet I’m not?
(*SNORT*)
Chekote. Keep ducking the questions if you must, but we’re all following the same threads and each time to refuse to address specifics everyone notices.
(*SHRUG*)
What… are you going to take comfort in the support of the Otto Fan Club? (*LAUGHING MY ASS OFF*)
Perhaps I’ve been wrong about you. Maybe giving you the benefit of the doubt was a waste of time.
Hey… all I’m saying… if you’re gonna throw out charges… back ‘em up.
Re: MFarmer // Jul 13, 2009 at 8:09 am –
“If Palin had said half the stupid crap Biden has said…”
Hey. MFarmer. You’re expecting fairness and intellectual honesty. Good luck! (*SNORT*)
No. (*SIGH*) It’s so damned sad. Yeah… I get a bit angry at times… frustrated by the stupidity… but most of all, I find the sheer outlook of these “say anything; engage in any tactic no matter how reprehensible in an effort to win” folks disheartening and depressing.
Human nature? Yeah. I guess. But, jeez… we’re better than animals… these folks should be able to rise ABOVE their pettiness and vindictiveness. At the very least, I wish they’d come across as more honest.
(*SIGH*)
BILL
24 Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:12 am
sdspringy
Sorry but the conservative movement loses credibility each time people try to defend Palin who wears her ignorance as badge of honor. Instead of grabbing on to Palin, why not look for a Margaret Thatcher? Instead of putting forward nutty Michelle Bachmann, why not push forward a Liz Cheney who is informed and articulate? Is it too much to ask for competence?!
25 Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:17 am
And you’re basing this on… er… what?
On the fact that she is still recycling the same canned talking points given to her by the McCain campaign. According to her fans she is an energy expert. Why hasn’t she presented a comprehensive plan to address the energy needs of our country. She talks about drilling in Alaska and feeding “hungry markets” in the lower 48s. That’s it. Is it too much to ask that she presents an alternative to Obama’s energy plan. I mean, this is her area of expertise, right?
26 Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:21 am
Chekote. Keep ducking the questions if you must, but we’re all following the same threads and each time to refuse to address specifics everyone notices.
I have. Complete with links. Check out the other thread. What specifics have you presented? You have fallen into the trap of “Palin is indispensible”. She is not. She does more harm than good. What the conservative movement needs is to return to its roots of limited federal government, strong defense and individual freedom. Drop the culture wars, the indentity politics and present a new agenda for America that will address the economy, healthcare, energy and foreign policy.
27 sinz54 // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:23 am
MFarmer: The ridicule and abuse of Sarah Palin didn’t start until after she revealed that her daughter, Bristol, was carrying an illegitimate child. And that Bristol would be married off to her boyfriend in a classic shotgun wedding.
Prior to that, when McCain first announced her as his running mate, the coverage was fairly positive, and the Left actually appeared puzzled and concerned about how much she could add to the McCain ticket. But when Bristol’s situation was revealed to the public, the Left had exactly what they wanted: Another case of GOP hypocrisy on “family values,” to add to Vitter and Craig. And they poured it on.
I don’t understand why the GOP base is puzzled about all this. They keep touting “Christian values” and “family values” as a political strength of the GOP, and then getting hoisted on their own petard.
But beyond that, Bristol’s shotgun wedding infuriated modernist and feminist women. Shotgun weddings as a “solution” to unwed motherhood was one of the things they had marched and campaigned to get away from. And that led to the Tina Fey ridicule and all the other ridicule from Blue State women.
I’ve given up trying to explain it–because the Religious Right has abandoned true Christianity in favor of embittered political protest. A true Christian hates the sin but loves the sinner. The Religious Right has never done that with Barney Frank or John Edwards. Instead, they use the moral choices that Frank and Edwards made to attempt to destroy them politically.
And that leaves them open to charges of hypocrisy when Vitter, Craig, and Sarah Palin’s daughter are caught doing things that are un-Christian too.
28 sinz54 // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:23 am
MFarmer: The ridicule and abuse of Sarah Palin didn’t start until after she revealed that her daughter, Bristol, was carrying an illegitimate child. And that Bristol would be married off to her boyfriend in a classic shotgun wedding.
Prior to that, when McCain first announced her as his running mate, the coverage was fairly positive, and the Left actually appeared puzzled and concerned about how much she could add to the McCain ticket. But when Bristol’s situation was revealed to the public, the Left had exactly what they wanted: Another case of GOP hypocrisy on “family values,” to add to Vitter and Craig. And they poured it on.
I don’t understand why the GOP base is puzzled about all this. They keep touting “Christian values” and “family values” as a political strength of the GOP, and then getting hoisted on their own petard.
29 ottovbvs // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:46 am
MFarmer // Jul 13, 2009 at 8:09 am
“Unless you are a Democrat named Joe Biden. If Palin had said half the stupid crap Biden has said, and had half the political baggage, the left would have gone so ballistic the poor lady may not be all in one piece. You can spin it, but the treatment of Palin has been excessively savage”
……….Biden has been under intense scrutiny for years as a leading member of the senate……I’m not saying he doesn’t stick his foot in his mouth occasionally, who doesn’t, but he’s not clueless as she is and as is totally apparent the moment she opens her mouth……Neither do I think the press treatment of her has been particularly savage, it doesn’t compare with their treatment of Hillary Clinton over the years, if anything they’ve given her an easy ride……In fact they are culpable in buying into the scenario that she was a serious candidate for VP long after they must have realized as did McCain and Palin staffers that in fact she was a doofus……in fact they are still buying into it.
30 Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:47 am
Sinz
I guess you haven’t heard the latest from Rush? He said that hypocrisy is a good thing. So I guess the next GOP slogan will be: “Vote for us. We are hypocrits”. I think some people on the Right have completely lost their mind as they attempt to hold on to the cultural war politics of the past.
You are right. Palin’s coverage was very positive initially thanks to her superb performance at the GOP convention. I remember Mika Brezinski (sp) and Nora O’Donnell just cooing over the images of Piper and Trig at the convention. The Bristol story started the ball rolling primarily because of the abistinence only policy adopted by the GOP to appease the SoCons. Plus having K-Lo at NRO going on and on how teenage girls having sex is a sign that they have self-esteem, self-respect problems didn’t help. I had sex when I was a teenager. It had nothing to do with self-esteem, self-respect. It had more to do with hormones.
But what really hurt Palin was the Couric interview. Her inability to answer the simplest questions about policy. It showed that not only that was she ignorant about many issues. It also showed that she never thought about them at any length. It showed a complete lack of intellectual curiosity. Yes, Biden is gaffe prone but the man has at least thought about the issues. His conclusions are usually wrong but that’s another story for another day.
31 mymy // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:53 am
SINZ54 I’ don’t understand why it would offend feminist ask a “man” to take responsibility for his actions.? That one tries and fails to live up to a set of standards,does not make the standards any less valuable.
32 ottovbvs // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:55 am
Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:21 am
“I have. Complete with links.”
……….Surely by now it must be apparent what you’re dealing with
33 ottovbvs // Jul 13, 2009 at 10:01 am
Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:47 am
“I guess you haven’t heard the latest from Rush? He said that hypocrisy is a good thing. So I guess the next GOP slogan will be: “Vote for us. We are hypocrits”. ”
…………”Hypocrite” is a word that is starting to stick to Republicans like poop to a blanket…….Remember those word association polls thy used to do about Bush and the most commonly associated word with him was liar!……it’s fatal once a word or idea becomes indelibly attached to you and as of now Republican=Hypocrite……Mind you if Rush say’s it’s a good thing then it must be.
34 barker13 // Jul 13, 2009 at 10:07 am
Re: Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:17 am –
“On the fact that she is still recycling the same canned talking points…”
Canned talking points is what most politicians bring to the table. What… are you telling me you don’t hear the same soundbites coming from Obama and Biden’s mouths speech after speech?
Chekote. I’m not saying two wrongs make a right, but for God’s sake, you’re making a critique that applies to pretty much ALL politicians.
(And again… you wanna be specific… you wanna provide links to transcripts and such…??? Point us to exactly what PALIN is saying and not to what others are saying about what Palin is saying.)
Re: Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:12 am –
“…Palin who wears her ignorance as badge of honor.”
(*SIGH*) See… this is what we’re referring to. How can you seriously expect to be looked upon as reasonable, rational, and fair-minded when you throw crap like that against the wall?
I know the technique, Chekote… throw crap against the wall till some of it sticks… till whether true or false the “message” sinks in to the subconscious of your target audience. Still… “understanding” such tactics is a far different matter than having respect for them. And when you can’t respect a person’s tactics… (*SHRUG*)
Re: Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:21 am –
“Complete with links.”
Seriously, Chekote… when you went to school did they teach you the difference between primary and secondary sources? Evidence vs. heresay?
Again, Admiral… citing Coyne and Hopfinger AIN’T what I’m looking for. (*SNORT*)
“You have fallen into the trap of “Palin is indispensible.””
No. I never said that. I never inferred that. (Rush is indispensable!) (*WINK*)
See… seriously… you’re projecting. Unlike Frum, I don’t believe you’re mischaracterizing on purpose, but you’re doing so all the same.
One more time… I like Sarah Palin. Heck… I love Sarah Palin! I think she’s great for the GOP and indeed for the nation. Is she my candidate for 2012? No. I don’t have a candidate. If I could “appoint” the next President I’d appoint Newt Gingrich. (*SHRUG*) Do I believe Palin is an intellectual? No. Do I believe she was an outstanding governor? Yes. Do I believe she’s the perfect person or the perfect candidate? No. Would I rather have her as POTUS than Obama? YES!
I mean, seriously… I’m clear. I’m ALWAYS clear. I don’t “hmm” and “haww” and spend my time with “on the one hand… on the other hand.” Seriously, Chekote, agree or disagree with my feelings and analysis, there’s just no mistaking my positions because frankly… I’m about as direct and forthright as it’s possible to be!
“Drop the culture wars…”
I agree! (Jeez… Sinz… help me out here – have I not been clear about my views on abortion and gay marriage and the like…?!?!)
Chekote… last time I checked it was “your” side’s Anniemargaret who was babbling on about “pro-choice.” (*SHRUG*) Me? I’m all about the policies and the underlying principles. (*SHRUG*)
“Why hasn’t she presented a comprehensive plan to address the energy needs of our country.”
(*SIGH*)
http://juneauempire.com/stories/011809/loc_378660723.shtml
http://juneauempire.com/documents/011809/energy_list.pdf
Now don’t you feel like an “effen” jerk? (Hint: You should.)
(*SIGH*)
See… this is what I mean… this is why I get frustrated… I’m debating with frigg’n middle school students here; at least that’s how it appears at times.
“What the conservative movement needs is to return to its roots of limited federal government, strong defense and individual freedom.”
Talk about canned talking points! (*SNORT*) (*SMIRK*)
(BTW, I don’t recall you taking part in the F-22 thread. When it comes to specifics you’re nowhere to be found.)
“…a new agenda for America that will address the economy, healthcare, energy and foreign policy.”
Ha! Ha! Ha! Again with the laser beam like focus on specifics. (*SNORT*)
Chekote. You really need to re-read your comments before hitting the “Submit” button.
BILL
35 Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 10:17 am
Otto
I agree. The word hypocrite (sorry for the mispelling) is sticking to the GOP and it will continue to do so as long as “leaders” like Rush keep saying this is a good thing because it preserves – at least – the appearance of morality. Can you believe that? Rush is a smart guy. He knows his audience is primarily SoCon so he is trying to keep his ratings up. The GOP is afraid to take on the SoCons because they are the backbone of their GOTV effort and still operate under the illusion that they can expand the party while keeping the SoCon vote intact. They are primarily betting on Obama’s failure driving moderate/indie voters back to the GOP. Maybe they are right. I still think that Obama failing is not enough. I still think it is important to present yourself as a credible alternative or the people with stick with “the devil you know” as the saying goes.
36 mymy // Jul 13, 2009 at 10:22 am
OTTO Sometimes it is good to be a little hypocritical.If you are a parent that stole candy from a store at the age of 8.When your child tries the same thing ,do you say “oh honey I tried it too or no that is wrong don’t steal candy.Do you tell your pre-teen I tried drugs and everything turned out ok,or do you say drugs are bad just don’t go there.
37 Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 10:23 am
Sometimes it is good to be a little hypocritical.
Not for a political party or movement. Voters will forgive honest mistakes but not rank hypocrisy. But I repeat myself.
38 ottovbvs // Jul 13, 2009 at 10:25 am
Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 10:17 am
……..Unfortunately the GOP has become addicted to poison pills…..I’ve penned a comment in response to one of yours elsewhere about another idee fixe……I know you and I probably wouldn’t agree about a lot but at least you don’t deny reality which has become another Republican addiction……I don’t think Obama is going to fail and even if he did stumble who the hell is going to replace him with Gingrich and Palin?
39 ottovbvs // Jul 13, 2009 at 10:31 am
mymy // Jul 13, 2009 at 10:22 am
“OTTO Sometimes it is good to be a little hypocritical.”
……….I hope I, and anyone, can see the difference between benign hypocrisy as when I lavished praise on the excruciating performance of a neighbor’s child at a school concert a month ago, and the malignant kind that involves justifying the lying and mendacity of high elected officials particularly when they spend a lot of time talking about their religious morality.
40 barker13 // Jul 13, 2009 at 11:07 am
Re: Mymy // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:53 am –
Mymy. You have to understand… when it comes to “The Christian Right,” Sinz is an Inquisitor on a mission.
I mean… it’s Pavlovian.
(*SNORT*)
Sinz is a bit of a Doctor Jekyll when it comes to foreign policy issues and to a lesser extent economic issues, but when it comes to two issues – “The Religious Right” and “Global Warming” – Sinz turns into Mr. Hyde.
Re: Sinz54 // Jul 13, 2009 at 9:23 am –
“The ridicule and abuse of Sarah Palin didn’t start until after she revealed that her daughter, Bristol, was carrying an illegitimate child.”
(*ROLLING MY EYES*)
(Hey… any of you libs out there gonna tell Sinz that “no child is illegitimate?”) (*SMIRK*)
Sinz. Palin was ALWAYS going to be ridiculed by the Left – just as Reagan was ridiculed, just as Bush was ridiculed, just as Qualye was ridiculed.
Do you HONESTLY believe that absent Bristol Palin’s “mistake”…
(Com’on, kids… com’on all you libs… let’s hear you say it: “No child is a mistake!!!”) (*SMIRK*)
…the MSM and the Academy – both in the tank for the Democrats, both in the tank for Obama specifically – would have been any less anti-Palin?
(Hey… if you do then you do; but I don’t.)
Sinz… I remember it clearly. The ridicule of Sarah Palin by the left started within less than 24 hrs after her nomination and acceptance speech – AND… this ridicule was specifically targeted at Sarah Palin the woman. We’re talking blatant sexism. Are you telling me you don’t recall the same…???
“…that Bristol would be married off to her boyfriend in a classic shotgun wedding.”
Not quite sure what your point is here. To echo Mymy, are you ridiculing the notion that the male should step up to the plate and take responsibility for his actions…???
“Another case of GOP hypocrisy on “family values,” to add to Vitter and Craig.”
HUH…?!?! How so…??? How do you compare the child of a candidate getting pregnant and deciding to keep the baby to Vitter or Craig?
(*SCRATCHING MY HEAD*)
Hey, Mymy… hey MFarmer… is it something in the water that makes certain people come up with stuff like this? Is it me…??? I just don’t get it. I read this kind of nonsense and I just don’t get it. (*SHRUG*)
I mean, Otto… I get. I get Otto. He’s a liberal Democrat partisan. But Sinz…??? Even Chekote? It’s like I was saying about the Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde thing… it’s like one moment you’re debating a reasonable, rational individual and the next… (*SHRUG*)
“…touting “Christian values” and “family values”…”
Sinz. I’m the “Palin base.” I’m the “Limbaugh base.” Do you see me touting “Christian values” and “family values?”
Seriously, Sinz… just as with Chekote mischaracterizing my view of Palin, you mischaracterize the views of most conservatives I support. I was heavily involved in grass root Republican politics for many years and the folks I saw at Committee meetings and functions weren’t exactly the “bible thumping” contingent.
Sinz. You have these stereotypes and you stick to them, but by and large your stereotypes skirt reality. There’s a huge difference between the average conservative not wanting the local elementary school to ban the singing of Christmas (and Hannukkah!) carols at the “Winter” concert and the tiny minority of religious fundamentalists who insist the world was literally created in six days.
(Heck… Mymy… just as an aside, have you noticed as I have that all the “anti-Christian-Right” attacks seem to be aimed at Palin – who isn’t exactly a “bible thumper;” yet, Sinz and Chekote and Frum seem to give Huckabee – who’s an actual ordained Minister, right? – a pass? Interesting…)
“…the Religious Right has abandoned true Christianity…”
(*SIGH*)
And there we get to the heart of it. Sinz isn’t so much “anti-Christian” as he’s (she’s?) a partisan of only her (is?) own brand of Christianity.
“A true Christian…”
Yep. There it is in a nutshell. Sinz is a “true” Christian. (Or knows what a “true” Christian is.) Those who consider conception to be life (which I don’t – not as applies to the first few weeks of pregnancy at least in the context of the abortion debabe) are… er… “false” Christians.
Sinz believes “judgmentalism” is wrong… unless of course it’s Sinz making the judgment.
(*CHUCKLE*)
BILL
41 Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Barker
Please stop making comparisons between Reagan and Palin. He was an informed man who thought about his policy position. She is proud of her ignorance and spits out cliches and platitudes. Stop it! You are not helping the cause by promoting her.
42 barker13 // Jul 13, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Re: Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 12:39 pm –
“Barker, please stop making comparisons between Reagan and Palin.”
Hey, Chekote, just out of curiosity… how’d you do back in elementary, middle, and high school with those standardized tests that tested reading comprehension and logic? You know… “Cup is to saucer as plate is to _____?”
I’ll compare and contrast any politician I choose to Reagan OR Palin, but in this instance I believe you’re referring to a comparison I made concerning how the mainstream media, Democrats, members of the Academy, et al smeared and belittled the Great Ronald Reagan. That WAS the context of the remarks you’re apparently eluding to.
“She is proud of her ignorance…”
WILL YOU PLEASE STOP PLAGIARIZING PEGGY NOONAN…?!?!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124716984620819351.html
NOONAN: “She couldn’t say what she read because she didn’t read anything. She was utterly unconcerned by all this and seemed in fact rather proud of it…”
(*ROLLING MY EYES*)
What are you… Joe Biden…?!?! (*SNORT*)
Listen… Chekote… you seem to have your heart in the right place. You’re probably just easily led. My advice… keep reading my posts and hopefully you’ll learn something.
Cheers,
BILL
43 sdspringy // Jul 13, 2009 at 5:23 pm
.What amazes me is the delight at which so called conservative on this blog spend 90% of their entries ripping fellow conservatives. What is this some sort of self loathing? Whether you thing Palin is qualified can be expressed with a vote. Not with complete nuclear bombing of her and her family.
We get it Chekote, you don’t think she is qualified. You however have that Katie Couric clint in your eye every time you post. She is still a member of the Republican party and is as intelligent as alot of current members in either party, ie Biden, Pelosi. Let Otto spew the lib hate, he is as toothless as Air America. Palin energizes the base, we need that. McCain lost because of McCain. He could have picked any VP and still lost. Palin, her family, did not lose the election.
And of course I love the “Hypocrisy” debate. Which is.. can’t say it’s bad if you have done it yourself.
Which of course then means drug counselors who have done drugs are the worst counselors’. Or smokers who have quit can’t say smoking is bad. Or if you are a parent and have smoked weed, can’t tell your kids no,no because then you are a hypocrite. What utter nonsense. Hopefully we learn from our mistakes, use those mistakes to inform others about what not to do.
Of course this only applies to conservatives. Libs can do anything because they never say no to anything. Homosexual marriage, no problem, abortion no problem, no matter the issue, social, economic, the only bad response is NO. And that is why liberalism is like love, never having to say you’re sorry.
44 ottovbvs // Jul 13, 2009 at 5:31 pm
“Listen… Chekote… you seem to have your heart in the right place. You’re probably just easily led. My advice… keep reading my posts and hopefully you’ll learn something.”
……..Chekote old man…..still not apparent what you’re dealing with?
45 ottovbvs // Jul 13, 2009 at 5:41 pm
sdspringy // Jul 13, 2009 at 5:23 pm
……What I find most interesting, illuminating really, is the total lack of value judgement amongst movement conservatives. Bush famously said he didn’t do nuance and boy is it true of these folks……were drug counsellors while “taking drugs” going around telling people that drug taking was bad; or parents while smoking weed going on tv telling people that smoking pot was bad; that’s what the Republican hypocrites of whom Chekote and I speak were doing…….Limbaugh was urging the execution of drug addicts while popping Oxycontin; Sanford, Vitter and Ensign were spouting about family values while bonking in Argentina, Nevada and Washington brothels…….There’s a qualitive difference although it seems beyond your wit to see it.
46 Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Barker
Palin only delivers cliches and platidues. It is not just Noonan. It is Krauthammer. Murphy. Brooks. Frum. And many others. She thinks that being ignorant of the issues makes her “a real person”. She is right. Most everyday people are not very well versed in national and international issues. But our leaders need to be. Anyway, she will be free from Alaska on 7/26. Let’s see what she does.
47 Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 6:42 pm
What amazes me is the delight at which so called conservative on this blog spend 90% of their entries ripping fellow conservatives. What is this some sort of self loathing?
No. In case you haven’t noticed, our team got its butt whooped in the last two election cycles. We are now in the off season trying to retool for the next season. What do losing teams do? Analyze what they did wrong and try to fix the problems or do they sit around and talk about the mistakes the winning team made and how they could have won by a bigger margin?
Palin energizes the base.
The base is not enough to win. She turns off moderate, swing voters. Is it too much to ask that we find people who energize the base and at the same time are attractive to moderates?
Which of course then means drug counselors who have done drugs are the worst counselors’. Or smokers who have quit can’t say smoking is bad.
The problem is that the GOP is talking about quitting drugs and smoking while sneaking around to smoke and take drugs. Sorry. But the family values is done as a political strategy. Besides, are we going to say that people are immoral, atheists or anti-values family just because the believe in a larger federal role in the economy, healthcare? Enough! This is all part of the retooling.
48 barker13 // Jul 13, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Re: Sdspringy // Jul 13, 2009 at 5:23 pm –
(*SHRUG*)
Well… you tried.
Keep at it. I realize my take no prisoners, in your face “vinegar” style ain’t gonna catch “flys” like Chekote; perhaps a bit of “honey” will do the trick.
BILL
49 Peggy Really Doesn’t Like Sarah. Matthew Really Does Like Sarah. And After This Is Over, We’re Going Out To Get A Malted. « Around The Sphere // Jul 13, 2009 at 8:26 pm
[...] [...]
50 aDude // Jul 13, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Sarah Palin is to the social conservatives of today what Jessie Jackson was to the liberals of the 1980’s. No one could rally a crowd like Jessie. He would have the whole audience electrified with chants of “keep hope alive!” Democrats were afraid to stand up to Jackson because he could energize the base like no one else in the party. He was a major factor in both 1984 and 1988. But all his retoric and charisma in those years had the same result – disaster for the Democratic ticket. That’s because while he could excite the liberals, he turned off the great mass of moderates, who fled to the Republican Party. After the excitement and energy of Jackson the party gave the public Mondale and Dukakis. The base was discouraged and the moderates stayed away.
Now we have Sarah Palin. Clearly, she is the most exciting thing for The Right today. She can draw a crowd like no one else in the Republican Party. She can leave a crowd energized and enthusiastic. If she runs in 2012 she will generate more coverage than any other candidate. The other candidates will find they have to treat her with kid gloves, even to the point of not being able to disagree with her on points where she is clearly wrong out of fear of offending the base. And after all that charisma, the party will nominate Mitt Romney, who has all the charisma of, well, Mike Dukakis. (It should be pointed out that Dukakis was then defeated by George H. W. Bush, who made Dukakis look like JFK, so charisma isn’t everything).
The Democrats didn’t win until Jessie Jackson went quiet in 1992. The Republicans may find they will suffer the same fate.
51 barker13 // Jul 13, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Re: Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 6:23 pm –
“…she will be free from Alaska on 7/26. Let’s see what she does.”
Fair enough.
(*HANDSHAKE*)
BILL
52 sdspringy // Jul 14, 2009 at 2:53 am
Otto: Sanford, Vitter and Ensign were spouting about family values while bonking in Argentina, Nevada and Washington brothels…….There’s a qualitive difference although it seems beyond your wit to see it.
Really, the Dems have Kennedy, Chappaquiddick, Frank and his lovers brothel, all reelected by the never having to say your sorry party. Then there is Gary Hart. The hypocrisy is that after the media sunk Hart’s campaign over his morality, they took a sacred vow. Never sink a Dem over another woman or for that matter anyother guy. Clinton sailed through the media without a wrinkle, no pretty ladies on his lap ever showed. No matter how many came forward, bimbos all, and scorned by the press. No Dem will lose his seat for infidelity, well except that governor who was married, and then he was homosexual, then he resigned but no one ever said his political career was over. Unlike Palin, riddle me that Batman.
Chek: No. In case you haven’t noticed, our team got its butt whooped in the last two election cycles. We are now in the off season trying to retool for the next season. What do losing teams do? Analyze what they did wrong and try to fix the problems
Those elections were lost for reason which had nothing to do with Sanford or Ensign. More to do with the complete disregard for fiscal conservative legislation. A Republican is not necessarily a conservative, especially when buying your vote, with healthcare, and government motors.
Chek:Besides, are we going to say that people are immoral, atheists or anti-values family just because they believe in a larger federal role in the economy, healthcare? Enough!
Well actually I would say they are ignorant. That government run healthcare will be rationed and expensive. You could say the same thing without appearing racist or immoral. Try it in front of a mirror first then go public.
53 Chekote // Jul 14, 2009 at 10:13 am
sdspringy
You need to understand something. The Dems have not made “family values” a central campaign theme like the GOP has. So you bringing up Dem scandal just doesn’t cut it. It is not the same. When you pontificate about family values and suggest that your opposition is anti-family values you set yourself up for a HIGHER standard. So stop the comparisons. Unless EVERY GOP politicians who pontificates about family values commits to being PERFECT, they need to shut up and talk policy, solutions.
As far as my offseason analogy, I used it to illustrate that this is the time for the GOP to take a look at itself instead of whining about Noonan, Frum and others who are trying to do just that.
54 ottovbvs // Jul 14, 2009 at 10:46 am
sdspringy // Jul 14, 2009 at 2:53 am
” Really, the Dems have Kennedy, ”
……..I never said these guys were choir boys but neither did they……..The problem which you just don’t seem to get is that Vitter, Sanford, Ensign etc. said they were!
” Those elections were lost for reason which had nothing to do with Sanford or Ensign”
………The election losses in 06 had huge amounts to do with pre Vitters like Foley, Cunningham, DeLay and “wide stances” in men’s restrooms…..Not just qualitative blindness but amnesia too
55 Chekote // Jul 14, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Again, I will repeat myself. Voters will forgive honest mistakes not rank hypocrisy.
56 barker13 // Jul 14, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Re: Chekote // Jul 13, 2009 at 6:23 pm –
OK, Chekote, here’s your first opportunity to make specific critiques of Palin in the context of “same day reaction”:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/13/AR2009071302852.html
Now of course FRUM should be the one to bring this to our attention here at NewMajority, but it’s pretty obvious that Frum’s Palin posts aren’t about fairness or even-handedness or even spreading information; no, Frum’s threads as they apply to Palin are meant to propagandize and smear, not educate.
Thank God I’m here – right?!?! (*GRIN*)
BILL
57 ottovbvs // Jul 14, 2009 at 6:54 pm
“Now of course FRUM should be the one to bring this to our attention here at NewMajority, but it’s pretty obvious that Frum’s Palin posts aren’t about fairness or even-handedness or even spreading information; no, Frum’s threads as they apply to Palin are meant to propagandize and smear, not educate.
Thank God I’m here – right?!?! (*GRIN*)
BILL”
………?????…..Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder defined by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the diagnostic classification system used in the United States, as “a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy.” [1]
The narcissist is described as turning inward for gratification rather than depending on others, and as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, and prestige.[2] Narcissistic personality disorder is closely linked to self-centeredness. It is also colloquially referred to as “the God complex.”
58 Chekote // Jul 14, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Unfortunately, many in the national media would rather focus on the personality-driven political gossip of the day than on the gravity of these challenges. So, at risk of disappointing the chattering class, let me make clear what is foremost on my mind and where my focus will be:
If Palin wants to be taken seriously, she need to stop whining about the media. We understand that she and her supporters believe that Palin received unprecendented vicious treatment by the media. We get it. She doesn’t need to wallow in it.
Her op-ed consists of outlining the domestic oil and gas reserves and then criticizing cap and trade as a job killer. If she truly was the energy expert as her supporters claim, she would discuss the impact of regulatory costs on domestic production. The primary reason we import oil is because it is cheaper to buy it from abroad than to produce it domestically. Yet not one word on this very important issue. Second, the impetus behind cap and trade is concern about the enrivonment. Global warming. Climate change. Whatever you want to call it. Yet, Palin completely ignores this aspect of the debate. Third, she needs to stop pretending that the gas pipeline about is under construction. It is not. Construction won’t start for years to come and given the current glut of gas, it may be a decade before anything is done.
59 barker13 // Jul 14, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Re: Ottovbvs // Jul 14, 2009 at 6:54 pm –
(*CHUCKLE*)
Hey… (*SHRUG*)… there are worse maladies to suffer from; for example, you you’re a partisan hack with flexible principles depending upon whose ox is being gored.
Nope. I’ll stick with narcissism. (*WINK*)
Re: Chekote // Jul 14, 2009 at 7:05 pm –
Wow. Given a chance to actually make your case based upon an actual example we can all turn to debate… you come up with a general paragraph not citing one single specific sentence of Palin’s op-ed.
“The primary reason we import oil is because it is cheaper to buy it from abroad than to produce it domestically.”
Not necessarily. It depends upon what word prices are. To the best of my knowledge it still only costs the Saudis under $10 to produce a barrel of oil. Depending upon the source of oil, the type of oil, the geographic placement of the oil, etc., actual production costs fluctuate.
I frankly don’t know what the per barrel production costs of “American” crude is – the average or median cost. Do you? If it’s below $70 dollars/barrel it makes sense for us to develop our oil resources. At $50/barrel or less it DEFINITELY makes sense.
“Global warming.”
(*ROLLING MY EYES*)
Chekote. We’ve been over this ad nauseum.
“Climate change.”
Or… as God and I like to put it… CLIMATES CHANGE. (Yes… they do! I swear!)
(*SIGH*)
In any case, you’ve convinced me; nothing is going to change your mind. I won’t try to talk sense to you.
BILL
60 Chekote // Jul 14, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Bill
My point is that the impetus behind cap and trade is concern over the environment. Palin totally ignored this in her op-ed.
61 barker13 // Jul 14, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Re: Chekote // Jul 14, 2009 at 8:13 pm –
Chekote. (*EXHALE*) You DO realize that either one of us could examine ANY op-ed, news report, or blog post and spend all day talking about what WASN’T addressed in the op-ed, news report, or blog post… right?
Hey… maybe I’ve got you wrong, but I’m being as honest as I can be when I tell you that you’re coming across as Otto lite.
As I wrote previously, if you can’t be moved by fact or reason, fine; but at least admit that this is the reality.
As for how cap and trade would effect the environment… (*SIGH*)… it wouldn’t. (Well… perhaps adversely as it would lead to manufacturing now still done in a highly regulated America moving overseas to China, India, Brazil and elsewhere.)
To cross thread a bit (connecting this post to comments made on “The Reckoning” thread) what cap and trade will do is punish “vulnerable” industries and thus regular Americans from farmers to factory workers to those involved in energy generation, while rewarding “traders,” white collar insiders who make their money off commissions on trades – trades that don’t actually produce anything of value.
Let’s say Cap & Trade is passed by the Senate in basically the same form as it was passed by the House and it goes into effect. How much do you wanna bet that before too long the financial gains of trading, of commissioned trading, will often include gains made by the spouses, children, and other relatives of powerful politicians?
See… this is a major problem with growing Washington power over the economy. The more power exercised by government, the more abuse of the system you get from the politicians themselves.
Don’t believe me? It exists already! How many lobbyists are family of powerful politicians? How many “small business contractors” turn out to be the son or daughter of a politician whose “company” somehow always seems to get the contract to do work for either a business in thrall to the politician or else you get stuff like “the kid” gets the dad’s (or mom’s) campaign website management contract at multi-thousands of dollars a month retainer?
I don’t care if you consider yourself a Republican or a Democrat, a liberal or a conservative, Chekote; what I don’t get about folks like you is how you can stomach the corruption and harm to the general economy and your fellow Americans that stunts like Cap & Trade will lead to.
I mean, Otto… him I understand; his kind I understand only too well. You, though… you don’t strike me as the kind of person who roots for one side or against one side consistently based upon ideological ties and double standards.
Anyway… (*SHRUG*)
BILL
62 Chekote // Jul 15, 2009 at 1:34 am
Bill
I was critiquing Palin’s op-ed. You cannot attack cap and trade legislation and not mention globlal warming the very reason Dems are pushing this legislation. It is like talking about healthcare reform and not mentioning increasing costs. Here is the response from Kerry:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/07/15/what_gov_palin_forgot_97464.html
Look, Palin has proven herself to be a disaster for Republicans. She has had eight months to improve her policy knowledge and has refused to do so. Today’s op-ed piece was nothing more than a recycle of previous pieces she has written. Please stop wasting your time with Palin. She is not worth it. Just because people like Otto don’t like her, it doesn’t mean that she is worthwhile. Wake up, Bill!
63 sdspringy // Jul 15, 2009 at 2:46 am
You usually lose the arguement of a false premis if that is where you let the arguement begin. Reduction in carbon, meeting Cap & Trade emission standards has in fact been in place in Europe for quite a while under the Kyoto Accord.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=awS1xfKpVRs8&refer=home
Rather than hurt profits at power producers, the program became a justification for higher electricity prices, as the cost of carbon pollution got passed on to consumers.
In Germany, Europe’s largest economy, average wholesale electricity prices for delivery the next day surged 61 percent last year. The U.K.’s gain was 66 percent. Both jumps were larger than the 46 percent increase in Brent crude oil.
Taking into account the fact that:
global temps have been stable since 2001, isn’t a story the media places on the front page,
Europe is unable to meet the Kyoto standards,
Increasing cost to everyone, even those not making more that 250K
Cap & Trade carbon emission standards worse than Kyoto.
Wind, Solar complete inadaquate to meet a fraction of current demand or even yearly demand increases.
So Chek the arguement is why would the Dems push legislation that won’t work, hasn’t worked in Europe under Kyoto, will have no affect on temperatures, which aren’t rising anyway. So you don’t have to mention global warming to critique cap and trade. Even though healthcare reform and cap & trade legislation are completely similar. Neither will reduce cost, neither will fix the problem, and both begin from the false premise that increased government involvment will solve the problem.
64 sdspringy // Jul 15, 2009 at 3:30 am
Otto:
……..I never said these guys were choir boys but neither did they……..The problem which you just don’t seem to get is that Vitter, Sanford, Ensign etc. said they were!
No Otto, they probably stated something to the effect that living by a certain set of moral codes, ie family values, is actually benefical to the country, and families and society as a whole. To publicly state a virtue to be good for individuals and failing to meet your own goals , having to admit your mistake actually makes you human. To change you stated virture to justify your mistake makes you the hypocrite, a word you are fond of.
To never actually state what you think is right, or moral, or what virtues you live by, like some of your Dem hero, well that just makes you a coward.
65 Chekote // Jul 15, 2009 at 9:24 am
So Chek the arguement is why would the Dems push legislation that won’t work, hasn’t worked in Europe under Kyoto, will have no affect on temperatures, which aren’t rising anyway.
Exactly my point. Instead of reciting the oil reserves, Palin needed to attack the premise behind the legislation. That is, if she wants to be effective in her attack. What Palin did is the equivalent of talking about healthcare reform and not mentioning rising costs. Anyway, there is no point in even responding anymore.
66 Chekote // Jul 15, 2009 at 9:26 am
Otto
They just don’t get it. The don’t understand that the GOP set itself up to a higher standard with all their talk of family values.
67 barker13 // Jul 15, 2009 at 11:01 am
Re: Chekote // Jul 15, 2009 at 1:34 am –
OK, Chekote, since you’re still not “getting” what I’m asking you to do in terms of reviewing Palin’s actual words, allow me to demonstrate by deconstructing Kerry’s response that you were kind enough to provide the link to. OK?
SECOND FRIGG’N PARAGRAPH –
“her promise to roll up her sleeves and tackle serious issues is followed by a column that focuses on everything but the single grave challenge that forms the basis of all of our actions: the crisis of global climate change.”
(*SIGH*) Chekote. Second frigg’n paragraph and already – before addressing ANY of Palin’s actual points and proposals – Kerry is switching focus (switching topics, indeed) to “the crisis” of global climate change.
One more time… there IS NO CRISIS. Where there’s a REAL crisis is when energy supply and demand tighten to the extent where oil shoots back up to $4/gal. or more and heating oil prices double or triple and electricity bills double or triple… now THAT’S the crisis that Palin is trying to avert.
Continuing to actually quote Kerry –
“Yes, she manages to write about the climate change action in Congress without ever mentioning the reason we are doing this in the first place.”
Chekote. It’s up to the supporters of Cap & Trade to defend their bill. In her editorial Palin is quite clear about why she opposes Cap & Trade.
(BTW, are you a Cap & Trade bill supporter or one who opposes the bill as written and passed? I mean, if you’re a supporter… well… that seems to me yet another indication that you’re actually more of a liberal Democrat than a conservative or even moderate Republican. Of course this doesn’t make you a “bad person,” but it adds context to this general back and forth we’re having over Palin.)
Continuing with Kerry…
“It’s like complaining about the cost of repairing a roof without factoring in the leaks destroying your home.”
No. (*SMIRK*) No it’s not.
Seriously, Chekote… THIS is the sort of nonsense you’re pointing to as evidence of a serious mind vs. your view of Palin as some sort of brunette bimbo…??? REALLY…???
(*SHAKING MY HEAD IN AMUSED DISGUST*)
Kerry again –
“The global climate change crisis threatens our economy and our national security in profound ways.”
So he says. Palin’s position is basically that even if one is to grant that global warming exists and is a “problem” per se (a “problem” now as opposed to how earth’s climate has constantly been changing over billions of years), she believes that Cap & Trade not only fails the basic cost/benefit test, but will actually HURT America and Americans far more than it’ll “help” America, Americans, or indeed the world.
Talk about “not addressing issues…” Hell, Chekote, Kerry basically skips over the whole cost issue.
Here… let’s quote from PALIN’S op-ed –
“American prosperity has always been driven by the steady supply of abundant, affordable energy. ”
True. Undeniably true. Basic industrial economics 101.
“There is no denying that as the world becomes more industrialized, we need to reform our energy policy and become less dependent on foreign energy sources. But the answer doesn’t lie in making energy scarcer and more expensive! Those who understand the issue know we can meet our energy needs and environmental challenges without destroying America’s economy.”
Yep. (Do you actually DISAGREE with Palin here, Chekote…???)
“Job losses are so certain under this new cap-and-tax plan that it includes a provision accommodating newly unemployed workers from the resulting dried-up energy sector, to the tune of $4.2 billion over eight years. So much for creating jobs.”
Chekote. The above is called… er… a FACT.
“In addition to immediately increasing unemployment in the energy sector, even more American jobs will be threatened by the rising cost of doing business under the cap-and-tax plan. For example, the cost of farming will certainly increase, driving down farm incomes while driving up grocery prices. The costs of manufacturing, warehousing and transportation will also increase. ”
1) Do you deny this? 2) Did Kerry note this in HIS op-ed? 3) Does the fact that Kerry DIDN’T note this destroy his credibility with you? 4) If not, then why do this specifics Palin doesn’t address destroy HER credibility in your mind? 5) Are double standards and lack of intellectual consistency traits you admire in yourself or others…???
(*GRIN*) Hey… don’t take that last personally; just busting your balls (or eggs if that’s the case).
“The Americans hit hardest will be those already struggling to make ends meet. As the president eloquently puts it, their electricity bills will “necessarily skyrocket.” So much for not raising taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year.”
“The Americans hit hardest will be those already struggling to make ends meet. As the president eloquently puts it, their electricity bills will “necessarily skyrocket.” So much for not raising taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year. ”
Do you deny this? Basic economics… do you deny that the less “disposable” income you have the more rising energy prices will adversely impact you?
“Even Warren Buffett, an ardent Obama supporter, admitted that under the cap-and-tax scheme, “poor people are going to pay a lot more for electricity.” ”
Hmm… how’bout it, Chekote… I don’t recall Kerry quoting the “Oracle of Omaha.” Nor did I notice you bashing Kerry for not noting Buffett’s well-publicized comment. Why is that, Chekote… why is it that you seem so comfortable demanding of Palin what you apparently don’t of Kerry?
Hey… I’m getting bored. Nice “sword,” Chekote, but figuratively speaking… it’s clear who’s got the pistol. (*WINK*)
Chekote. I’m treating your posts seriously. I’m going to the trouble of actually addressing – specifically – your claims, “logic,” and analysis. I’m sorry… they just don’t stand up to rigorous challenge.
I mean… I was giving you the benefit of the doubt when you were simply blathering on about Palin’s supposed gaffs (and yes, real gaffs… I’ve constantly acknowledged Palin’s dismal Katie Couric interview performance) based upon off the cuff critiques. But now… now when you fall back on nonsense – when you point to Kerry’s op-ed – it’s crystal clear that you’re viewing this as a “sporting” challenge, that Palin’s not on your “team” so therefore no matter what she says or does you’re going to instinctively “boo” her and if necessary (sticking to the sports analogy) root for “other teams” even if they’re not YOUR team as long as by the “other team” winning, Palin loses and slips in the “standings.”
(*SIGH*)
Pretty much what I figured… what I feared… still… it doesn’t make your actions any less depressing to me.
BILL
68 barker13 // Jul 15, 2009 at 11:06 am
Re: Sdspringy // Jul 15, 2009 at 2:46 am
Re: Sdspringy // Jul 15, 2009 at 3:30 am
(*THUMBS UP*)
If only we all relied upon fact and reason.
(*SIGH*)
BILL
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