A Deal Only Hamas Could Love

June 1st, 2010 at 6:52 am David Frum | 30 Comments |

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Former Ambassador to Israel Martin Indyk as quoted in Monday’s New York Times.

The administration needs to work on a package deal in which Hamas commits to preventing attacks from, and all smuggling into, Gaza. In return, Israel would drop the blockade and allow trade in and out.

Yes indeed let’s work on that package deal! Israel allows Hamas to resume importing war material – and in return Hamas solemnly promises not to renew war. Who wouldn’t accept a winner proposition like that?

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30 Comments so far ↓

  • ottovbvs

    ………..One of the lateral consequences of the bungled Israeli raid on the convoy has been to put Gaza well and truly back on the front burner so pressure to lift this blockade is going to mount steadily…….this is going to prove a massive self inflicted wound particularly since it now seems Israel is compounding the problem by holding the passengers on the Turkish vessel incommunicado…….how long do they think they are going to be able hold hundreds of foreign nationals prisoner without consequences?

  • TerryF98

    I see and applaud your robust condemnation of the killing of peace activists in international waters.

    Wait I was dreaming.

  • LJS

    Repelling down from a hovering helicopter with weapons drawn!
    The civilians on board are supposed to know those weapons are paint guns and not react?
    Factions in Israel knew exactly what the result would be and are pleased with the outcome. IMO
    Israel needs to bring in its extreme right wing before they can bring in any of it’s other so called enemies.

  • mymy

    Before you call the people on the boats “peace activist” and “civilians”please go watch some of the film of the incident and do a little research into this incident.

  • TerryF98

    mymy.

    So the innocent people in the boat in INTERNATIONAL waters were supposed to just sit back and allow themselves to be shot?

    From reports and other film sources it’s plain the attacking force (pirates) shot at the ship before boarding from assault helicopters.

    They were on the high seas for Fuc*s sake and were no threat to Israel. Obviously you believe in the dumb ass Bush doctrine.

  • ottovbvs

    mymy // Jun 1, 2010 at 7:50 am

    “Before you call the people on the boats “peace activist” and “civilians”please go watch some of the film of the incident and do a little research into this incident.”

    ……We’ve all seen it……the whole world has seen it……the problem is the Israelis were mounting a night-time military attack on a Turkish flagged ship in international waters…….this is illegal……and then they’ve killed at least 9 people while perpetrating this assault……..it’s created a huge problem for Israel not least with the Turks……this is a report of a speech the Turkish PM made this morning:

    “The Turkish prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, has delivered a furious speech to the Turkish parliament in Ankara.

    “This attack should definitely be punished,” he said to loud applause. “No one should test Turkey’s patience… The foundation of peace in the Middle East is being rocked by the reckless attitude of Israel,” he said.

    “This bloody massacre by Israel on ships that were taking humanitarian aid to Gaza deserves every kind of curse,” he added.

    He also revealed that Turkey had sent two ambulance flights to Israel to pick up Turks wounded in the raid, and that another flight is on the way. He called for the immediate release of the injured and those who continued to be detained.

    The speech was given a standing ovation.”

  • msmilack

    I am curious what solution you would propose that is better, David, and I am quite serious in asking that question: what alternative solution? In typical British understatement, Cameron described the Israeli action as a “disproportionate response” and that was being generous when it was clear that his view of the Israelis matched that of the rest of the world: of barbarians. Of course they want to search for weapons that can be used against them but why not be creative and come up with a better strategy? Following the M.O. of the Likud, they go immediately to the worst possible scenario and create a world crisis. They have succeeded in totally isolating themselves. Could they not have come up with a more creative solution? E.g. use divers to disable the propellers and pull the boats in for inspection; or send a war ship to confront the flotilla and then search for weapons. I try to imagine how I’d react if I were aboard a boat where commandos dropped from the sky, from a helicopter — armed commandos who according to video evidence began shooting as a first gesture. I read that they found no guns among the passengers; the two revolvers recovered belonged to the commandos themselves. Is it not a hostile gesture to drop commandos onto the boat? Of course people respond by hitting them as they come down the ropes, how could they expect any other response? They succeeded in cementing the worst fears about the Likud. Of course they need to be wary of arms being smuggled into Gaza for Hamas. But when you see among the people on board a group that includes a Holocaust survivor, a Nobel Prize winner, several journalists from different countries and a former US ambassador (in his eighties) you also see that for this was indeed a humanitarian effort. Should no supplies be provided to the civilian population in Gaza? The Israelis did more damage to their future than all the enemies they have on the outside; I fear they are on a suicide mission. They now appear completely immoral and callous to humanity. And the sad part is that all the PR in the world will not get them out of this one; they now stand alone. So going back to your original question: how bad is this new solution? It’s a start for acknowledging that both things are true: humanitarian aid is needed and Hamas is on the other side.

  • brichva

    It is an act of cowardice to swallow lock stock and barrel everything the “peace activists” say. It is the easy way out to side with the terrorists than with the Jews. Let’s face it – the Jews were pretty cool for maybe 1/1,000th of their history. Terrorists are just so avant garde.

    As for me I’ll side with Israel and with the residents of Sderot, and with all lovers of life and peace.

    And by the way, check out Netanyahu’s address: http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Speeches%20by%20Israeli%20leaders/2010/Gaza_flotilla-Statement_PM_Netanyahu_31-May-2010.htm

  • ottovbvs

    brichva // Jun 1, 2010 at 8:20 am

    ……Obviously the Israeli communication machine is keeping an eye on all blogs…….if this is the best rebuttal they can come up with…..good luck

  • mymy

    VoloKh has an interesting discussion about if Israel action were legal.You can scroll to latest comments and get the jest of both sides.I believe it was finally agreed Israel actions were legal under Maritime law.

  • TerryF98

    brichva.

    I thought the hyper pro israel worms would come out of the woodwork pretty soon. Congratulations on being the first.

    I guess you support piracy on the high seas?
    I guess you support killing innocent civilians in cold blood in International waters.
    I guess you have sympathy for the terrorists because this is exactly how they would behave.

    Israel has made itself even more of a rouge state by this action. The USA should cut off all aid especially arms donations to Israel.

  • ottovbvs

    mymy // Jun 1, 2010 at 8:33 am

    “I believe it was finally agreed Israel actions were legal under Maritime law.”

    …….well there’s an objective source…….tell that to the marines……or maybe the Turks

  • TerryF98

    Looks like this action has way backfired. Egypt has opened the land crossing into Gaza. Way to go! try and stop ships by force illegally and you create a huge backlash and enable a bigger access.

    I guess the next step is to invade Egypt.

    “Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has given orders to open the Rafah border crossing to allow humanitarian and medical aid into the Gaza Strip, as well as to receive medical cases which require access to Egyptian territory,” MENA said.

    “This comes as part of Egypt’s moves to ease the suffering of the Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip.”

    According to Egyptian security sources in Rafah, the border opened on Tuesday at 1.30 pm (1030 GMT). There has been no set date for its closure.

    The Rafah border crossing, the only way into Gaza that bypasses Israel, is kept closed by Egypt most of the time. Cairo allows the opening of the border two days a week for humanitarian cases.

  • ottovbvs

    mymy // Jun 1, 2010 at 8:33 am

    “I believe it was finally agreed Israel actions were legal under Maritime law.”

    ………From Wiki

    “The Volokh Conspiracy is a weblog which mostly covers United States legal and political issues, generally from a libertarian or conservative perspective. ”

    …….I’m sure Fox News thought it was entirely legal too

  • Smarg

    Israel, unless it acts soon, is doomed. They are threatened from all sides, and Obama hates Jews.

    God help them.

  • ottovbvs

    ……..the problem for the extreme pro Israeli faction is they have no ability to view this from different angles……at the moment they are engaged in a desperate attempt to spin this while holding the activists prisoner and preventing them from telling their side of the story……they can only do this for so long then the barriers are going to break, there will be funerals, interviews, etc etc……….it’s an own goal and they don’t even see it so concentrated are they on puffing their own version of events

  • msmilack

    Excuse me, Smarg, but to say that Obama hates Jews is untrue and inflammatory. If Israel is doomed, it has only itself to blame. The world hates Israel, and Israel keeps giving the world new reasons. For Israel to survive, it needs different leadership and a less paranoid world view than that of the Likud.

  • TerryF98

    Smarg.

    Always comes up with ultra stupidity in every post. Guaranteed.

  • LJS

    The enemy within the Israeli government is more a problem for Israel than any external enemy.
    This is action taking place on the eve of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visit to the Washington is a prime example of the extremism within sending a sobering message to the world.
    Who really governs Israel?

  • mymy

    OTTO in one comment you dismiss VOLOHK for being libertarian . In the next comment you say the problem with Pro-Israel side is they have no ability to view the problem from different angles.You don’t see a disconnect there?

  • ottovbvs

    mymy // Jun 1, 2010 at 9:23 am

    OTTO in one comment you dismiss VOLOHK for being libertarian .

    ………….All I did was produce the WIKI entry saying they were a Libertarian AND conservative (why did you leave that out I wonder?) legal blog……..that makes it a somewhat suspect source of legal guidance on this matter wouldn’t you say particularly since a brief eyeballing of the comments there clearly indicate where their sympathies lie although they are realistic enough to recognize this as an enormous Israeli screw up.

  • Smarg

    You guys are jealous of my no-nonsense posts. I speak the truth. No one can refute it.

  • sinz54

    You try to run a blockade,
    you get fired upon.

    Seems pretty simple to me.

    What this flotilla was attempting to do was to deliberately cause an incident. They were prepared to risk (and even give) their lives, in order to accomplish this.

    I salute their bravery, even though I oppose their cause.

    I also salute Israel for enforcing its policy.

    Both have honor.

  • mymy

    And just why is a Libertarian Law blog suspect? There are a lot of opinions in the comments. So any site that is sympathetic to Israel doesn’t have a valid point of view?Maybe viewing the problem from a different angle might do you some good.

  • ottovbvs

    mymy // Jun 1, 2010 at 9:52 am

    “And just why is a Libertarian Law blog suspect?…..So any site that is sympathetic to Israel doesn’t have a valid point of view?”

    ……..what’s your motive in dropping the conservative?…..obfuscation?…….and of course it has a valid point of view but since as you admit it’s biassed towards Israel one could be forgiven for thinking its legal opinions on this matter are…….er……biassed

  • ottovbvs

    sinz54 // Jun 1, 2010 at 9:51 am

    “You try to run a blockade,
    you get fired upon.”

    …….it was in international waters Sinz………what don’t you understand about that?……shall I say it very slowly?

  • mymy

    Hey OTTO . I didn’t intentionally try to muddy the waters.You refuse to accept the idea what Israel did is probably legal..I’ll take the opinions of law professors over yours.Call me when you get your law degree

  • ottovbvs

    mymy // Jun 1, 2010 at 10:14 am

    “I’ll take the opinions of law professors over yours”

    ……….”biassed” law professors you mean…….that makes entire sense since basically you like to make legal justifications fit your pre existing opinions…….it doesn’t mean a thing……the world is going to make up its mind about the “legality” of this action and somehow I don’t think it’s going to coincide with Volokhs……..otherwise you’re giving rogue states a blank check to do the same kind of thing

  • tequilamockingbird

    Msmilack:
    “… to say that Obama hates Jews is untrue and inflammatory …. The world hates Israel, and Israel keeps giving the world new reasons. For Israel to survive, it needs different leadership and a less paranoid world view than that of the Likud.”

    You’re a bit more respectful of Smarg than I would have been. But I think “The world hates Israel …” is a bit over the top.

    Your Likud observation is dead on. No progress can be made with the present Israeli regime.

    Smarg: “You guys are jealous of my no-nonsense posts. I speak the truth. No one can refute it.

    “Obama hates Jews”? You’re an idiot.

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